Should a Christian attend a gay wedding ?

[Paidiske]

Paul actually said that we should judge those inside the church. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 tells us that.

I would argue that attending or not attending someone else's gay wedding is far closer to the argument about eating meat offered to idols, than the question of discipline for the kind of sexual immorality under discussion in that passage.

 

[NBB]

Nope. It's a biological reality; an artefact of our development.

Neither of those disciplines reject the lived experience of the patient, but rather bring it into dialogue with an academic discipline.

It's pretty clear that there's a complex interplay of genetics and developmental conditions/environment. There is, however, no basis for claiming a spiritual component.

Which brings us back around to: if we don't, as Christians, even have a basic shared understanding of the world, any discussion of practical matters such as how to respond to a gay wedding becomes pretty much meaningless.

The best we can probably hope for is mutual respect despite differences and an understanding that, as Paul said, we're not to judge each other; we each stand or fall before the Lord, and will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make us stand. There is room for us to disagree on such matters of practical wisdom.

If the lived experience of my patient would result to get lost without God forever, i would suggest dropping that experience, don't you?
God morals laws, are like gravity, you fall from high you die, with God if you sin and don't repent you die.

 

[Paidiske]

If the lived experience of my patient would result to get lost without God forever, i would suggest dropping that experience, don't you?

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like, believing people when they tell you they've known their sexual orientation from a very young age. Believing them that they have wanted to change, have tried everything available to them to change, have prayed fervently to change, have been through all manner of conversion therapies and deliverance ministries and whatever else, and found that change has not happened. Not dismissing them by telling them they're deceived, are driven by lust, are only this way because they've given into temptation etc.

Note: I am not saying anything here which is permissive of sexually immoral behaviour. I am speaking of accepting what people tell us about their own experience of their sexuality, as one starting point for then relating to them with compassion, and as a very necessary aspect of dealing with the reality of these issues.

Gaslighting gay people is spiritually abusive, and gets us nowhere.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like, believing people when they tell you they've known their sexual orientation from a very young age. Believing them that they have wanted to change, have tried everything available to them to change, have prayed fervently to change, have been through all manner of conversion therapies and deliverance ministries and whatever else, and found that change has not happened. Not dismissing them by telling them they're deceived, are driven by lust, are only this way because they've given into temptation etc.

Note: I am not saying anything here which is permissive of sexually immoral behaviour. I am speaking of accepting what people tell us about their own experience of their sexuality, as one starting point for then relating to them with compassion, and as a very necessary aspect of dealing with the reality of these issues.

Gaslighting gay people is spiritually abusive, and gets us nowhere.

Are you suggesting that those who believe in Scripture on the topic have a spiritual problem ?

 

[Paidiske]

Are you suggesting that those who believe in Scripture on the topic have a spiritual problem ?

I am suggesting that people who use their beliefs - whether those beliefs are actually solidly grounded in Scripture or not - to mistreat others (and denying the lived reality of others is a mistreatment) not only have a problem, but are engaging in profoundly damaging behaviour.

 

[NBB]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like, believing people when they tell you they've known their sexual orientation from a very young age. Believing them that they have wanted to change, have tried everything available to them to change, have prayed fervently to change, have been through all manner of conversion therapies and deliverance ministries and whatever else, and found that change has not happened. Not dismissing them by telling them they're deceived, are driven by lust, are only this way because they've given into temptation etc.

Note: I am not saying anything here which is permissive of sexually immoral behaviour. I am speaking of accepting what people tell us about their own experience of their sexuality, as one starting point for then relating to them with compassion, and as a very necessary aspect of dealing with the reality of these issues.

Gaslighting gay people is spiritually abusive, and gets us nowhere.

Maybe is a difficult problem, ok so we agree its a problem and sexual immorality get us far from God.
I'm not trying to judge gay people, its just that when even now 'gay churches' exist, i feel to tell them, they are going nowhere with God if they call a sin to be ok and acceptable.

 

[Strong in Him]

Is that because it's not consensual?

No, it's because it's illegal.
Safeguarding practices and procedures were brought in to protect children from this, from being exploited and so on.

 

[Strong in Him]

@Strong in Him I've noticed two things. You have a hard time admitting when you're wrong. And you're wrong regarding this topic. Peace.

No, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
In your opinion I'm wrong about this topic.

 

[Strong in Him]

Not correct -He went for a meal with Matthew...

I know he did - and in choosing to do that he did not condone his behaviour.
That was my point.

 

[Strong in Him]

Orientation is a result of giving into temptation.

No, it isn't.

Orientation is when, as a male, you fancy girls, want a girlfriend, wonder if a girl is right for you, think about marriage, children and so on. And as a female think about boys in the same way.
For some, they think about, and are drawn to, people of the same gender. It's not that they want to rebel, or be different; the idea of being physically intimate with someone of the opposite gender may be as sickening to them as being with someone of the same gender is to heterosexuals.

That is what I have been referring to in my posts. THAT is what you cannot choose.
I, for one, was certainly not given a choice between fancying boys or girls. I was not told to sleep with both and then decide - neither were my brothers. At one point, because I had brothers, I wanted nothing to do with boys - that doesn't mean that I rushed off to sleep with girls.
But I have read articles by people who know they are gay - drawn to people of the same gender - yet hide/deny/cover it up, maybe even getting into a heterosexual marriage because of parental, or societal, disapproval.
How do you think you would feel if your wife (if you have one) suddenly said, "I'm gay; I've always been gay but my family would have been horrified, so I married you"?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I am suggesting that people who use their beliefs - whether those beliefs are actually solidly grounded in Scripture or not - to mistreat others (and denying the lived reality of others is a mistreatment) not only have a problem, but are engaging in profoundly damaging behaviour.

I cant recall anyone on this thread advocating the mistreatment of others...

 

[Paidiske]

I cant recall anyone on this thread advocating the mistreatment of others...

I would say that some of the claims made in this thread are a mistreatment of others.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I know he did - and in choosing to do that he did not condone his behaviour.
That was my point.

Matthew wasn't proudly celebrating his behaviour and his behaviour was not an abomination.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would say that some of the claims made in this thread are a mistreatment of others.

Should you not report any post that mistreats others ? Would that not be a violation of CF protocol?

 

[Strong in Him]

Matthew wasn't proudly celebrating his behaviour and his behaviour was not an abomination.

To some, his behaviour WAS an abomination - collecting taxes from fellow Jews to pay to the Romans.
But the comment was made earlier that to attend is to condone. I'm saying that Jesus accepted hospitality from Pharisees, tax collectors and sinners without condoning their behaviour.

 

[Paidiske]

I am not sure that any individual post rises to a clear and unambiguous flame in CF's terms. But I have done my best to explain - informed by a very great deal of pastoral experience - the harm in the kind of rhetoric used.

 

[Carl Emerson]

For some, they think about, and are drawn to, people of the same gender.

This is in itself a temptation to engage in what God has forbidden.

One will either yield to this or resist.

I have come out of a lot of sinful ways and the recurring thoughts and feelings associated with these sins took several years to eliminate.

Dealing with the source of these intrusions consistently over a period of time is essential.

Bathing oneself in prayer during this journey was essential to accelerate the process.

I now have zero issue in this area which did include a homosexual encounter which bound me deeply for several years.

Much needed to be revealed by the Holy Spirit otherwise I would have been unaware of the significance of past incidents and their effect on me.

The elements of such a process included confession, repentance, renunciation, cleansing, healing, and infilling.

If readers are interested in more detail, just PM me and we can discuss the matter thoroughly.

This approach to dealing with such issues is biblical and completely freeing. There is no compulsion or abuse or mistreatment of any kind - just the gentle work of God and standing in the authority of His name.

I have waited 40 years to share this detail.

I am a rebuilt prodigal once incarcerated and reduced to a vegetable state by ECT and drug 'therapy'

Unable to hold down a job being seriously impaired mentally.

Jesus led me back to wholeness and strength and I am being used to help others from time to time.

Now married almost 40 years with 5 children and my last job was associated the space industry.

This is real, this is Jesus at work -there is nothing He cant touch with His healing hand.

 

[Paidiske]

There is no compulsion or abuse or mistreatment of any kind

That this is your story is a good thing. But it is not the story of many, many people on the receiving end of Christians' good intentions. The kinds of things I've been trying to highlight - like gaslighting, and blaming, and denigrating people - are widespread, common, and really deeply harmful. That is an important reality which needs to be recognised.

 

[NBB]

That this is your story is a good thing. But it is not the story of many, many people on the receiving end of Christians' good intentions. The kinds of things I've been trying to highlight - like gaslighting, and blaming, and denigrating people - are widespread, common, and really deeply harmful. That is an important reality which needs to be recognised.

i don't think anyone is denigrating people, but we need to call sin for what it is, an offense that we need to deal with it, or have dangerous risks.

 

[BNR32FAN]

John 15:2 implies that a Christian that does not bare good fruit is taken out of this world, because they are of no use. God calls them home early because of their uselessness. John 15:6 concerns any man who does not abide in Him (Jesus); this pertains to nonbelievers.

I disagree, John 15:2 is referring to cutting off or removing the branch from the Vine, not from this world. The Greek word translated to “taketh away” when used in reference to anything that is attached to something means to cut off or remove.

The context of “abide” being used in John 15 is to stay, remain, continue. He’s using the word repeatedly in verses 3-7 telling His 11 faithful apostles to remain in Him, so it has nothing to do with unbelievers because they cannot remain in Christ if they have never been in Christ to begin with. Jesus tells the 11 apostles to remain in Him, then He tells them why they must remain in Him, then He tells them the consequences of not remaining in Him, then He tells them what they can expect if they remain in Him.