C. S. Lewis On Why He Never Became A Catholic

[Bob Crowley]

One of the ironies of CS Lewis's ministry is that the man who taught him how to think so effectively and dialectively was an atheist, the "Great Knock", William T Kirkpatrick.

He led Lewis himself towards atheism, but fortunately CS Lewis later became Christian and probably the greatest apologist of the 20th century.

But he always felt he owed a lot to his demanding tutor.

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/the-great-knock-ch140

Besides reason, language, and a strong work ethic, Lewis—already en route to losing his faith—picked up Kirkpatrick’s atheism. Kirkpatrick had once aspired to the ministry but by his fifties had become a staunch rationalist and emphatic atheist

But he wasn’t done with his tutor: Kirk would form the basis for the feisty atheist character MacPhee in That Hideous Strength and some elements of Professor Kirke in the Chronicles of Narnia. Many years later Lewis concluded, “My debt to him is very great, my reverence to this day undiminished.”

 

[Apple Sky]

I’ve read that. I always found Lewis so very talented in his writings.

I'll always remember him for his book 'The Lion The Witch & The Wardrobe'

 

[Michie]

I'll always remember him for his book 'The Lion The Witch & The Wardrobe'

Screwtape Letters with me.

 

[RileyG]

I'll always remember him for his book 'The Lion The Witch & The Wardrobe'

Yes! One of my favorites!

 

[narnia59]

There was a time when the RCC did not recognize other non-Catholic Christians as Christians??

I know this is a question by you and not a statement. So not a response to you directly but just the general question in the thread.

Since the Council of Trent recognized Protestant Baptism as being valid (assuming correct form and matter was used), and since the way we become a Christian is through Baptism, I'm not sure how any reasonable person could make the claim that the Church has ever had a time when Protestants were not viewed as being Christian. And the catechism from the Council of Trent cites the same benefits of Baptism we have always recognized -- remission of sin, remission of all punishment due to sin, grace of regeneration, infused virtues of faith, hope and love and incorporation into Christ, and it opens the gates of heaven to us -- in other words, SAVED provided that with the help of God’s grace they persevere in faith and charity. So not sure how any reasonable person could make the claim that the Church has ever had a time when Protestants were not seen as having the possibility to be saved.

 

[concretecamper]

The Church has always recognized Baptism administrated in Protestant communities as long as proper form, matter, and intention are used/present. Baptizing in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, with water, and with the intention of doing what the Church does is valid.

Outside the mainline protestant communities and even within some of them, proper intention is highly questionable. If you Baptize with water in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit with the intention of it just being a symbol, the Sacrament is invalid.

Those outside the Catholic Church who receive valid Baptism and remains in the state of grace has an upward trajectory, just like Catholics. However, without the Sacrament of Penence, those outside the Church who fall from grace have little recourse

Trent: If anyone says that the baptism which is given by heretics in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, with the intention of doing what the Church does, is not true baptism,[12] let him be anathema.

Just keeping it real.

 

[Michie]

I know this is a question by you and not a statement. So not a response to you directly but just the general question in the thread.

Since the Council of Trent recognized Protestant Baptism as being valid (assuming correct form and matter was used), and since the way we become a Christian is through Baptism, I'm not sure how any reasonable person could make the claim that the Church has ever had a time when Protestants were not viewed as being Christian. And the catechism from the Council of Trent cites the same benefits of Baptism we have always recognized -- remission of sin, remission of all punishment due to sin, grace of regeneration, infused virtues of faith, hope and love and incorporation into Christ, and it opens the gates of heaven to us -- in other words, SAVED provided that with the help of God’s grace they persevere in faith and charity. So not sure how any reasonable person could make the claim that the Church has ever had a time when Protestants were not seen as having the possibility to be saved.

Thank you!! This was one of my concerns in RCIA and there was a big discussion on it. Everything I researched appeared that I was taught correctly. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

 

[Michie]

An interesting read:

If there's salvation outside the Church, what is the Church for?

If there’s salvation outside the Catholic Church, why would Jesus create it together with the Sacraments?

www.catholic365.com

 

[SeekFirst0]

Sad that he was/is lost, I and many enjoyed much of his writings.

That’s quite the definitive statement. Only God knows what happened at his Judgment and the inner disposition of his heart. It would be best to pray for his soul.

 

[concretecamper]

inner disposition of his heart

What do you think this actually means?

 

[SeekFirst0]

What do you think this actually means?

Referring to the "inner disposition of his heart," it means the person's intentions, thoughts, and choices, particularly at the moment of death. When it comes to someone like C.S. Lewis, this knowledge is ultimately beyond our understanding. As Catholics, we believe that only God truly knows the depths of a person's heart at the time of judgment, and it’s not for us to definitively say where anyone, including him, ends up. We should pray for his soul rather than make such judgments.

 

[SeekFirst0]

Nobody knows what happens at death internally when it comes to repentance. He had faith in our Savior. He had faith, just not the fullness of Faith according to what I have been told. But anyway, eternal destination is not something I’m going to debate.

No Salvation Outside the Church is dogma, but it needs to be understand in the proper context. There is a risk of falling into Feenyism, which was condemned by Pope Pius XII.

 

[Michie]

No Salvation Outside the Church is dogma, but it needs to be understand in the proper context. There is a risk of falling into Feenyism, which was condemned by Pope Pius XII.

Yes. I posted this earlier in the thread.

Who Can Be Saved?

Nothing is more striking in the New Testament than the confidence with which it proclaims the saving power of belief in Christ. Almost every page confronts us with a decision of eternal consequence…

catholiceducation.org

 

[RileyG]

No Salvation Outside the Church is dogma, but it needs to be understand in the proper context. There is a risk of falling into Feenyism, which was condemned by Pope Pius XII.

Amen! Thankfully, he repented of his errors.

 

[narnia59]

Referring to the "inner disposition of his heart," it means the person's intentions, thoughts, and choices, particularly at the moment of death. When it comes to someone like C.S. Lewis, this knowledge is ultimately beyond our understanding. As Catholics, we believe that only God truly knows the depths of a person's heart at the time of judgment, and it’s not for us to definitively say where anyone, including him, ends up. We should pray for his soul rather than make such judgments.

The Church, through the canonization process, will make infallible declarations that an individual person is known to be in heaven.

There is a reason the Church, in her great wisdom, does not make similar declarations about individual people being in hell. If the Church does not profess it is possible to know such things it would seem quite improper for an individual to believe they can do so. As you correctly note, these are things only God can know.

 

[concretecamper]

Referring to the "inner disposition of his heart," it means the person's intentions, thoughts, and choices, particularly at the moment of death. When it comes to someone like C.S. Lewis, this knowledge is ultimately beyond our understanding. As Catholics, we believe that only God truly knows the depths of a person's heart at the time of judgment, and it’s not for us to definitively say where anyone, including him, ends up. We should pray for his soul rather than make such judgments.

Well, I'm not aware of any Dogma of the Catholic Church that says the "inner disposition of the heart" contributes anything toward the justification of the person.

However, I do know of this Dogma:

Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

As a Dogma, we as Catholics are bound by penalty of excommunication to believe.

Please look it up for yourself.

 

[Lady Bug]

Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

Making an objective comment, because I don't want to look presumptuous. That's the last thing I need right now.

The purpose of Protestantism in general is to knowingly and willingly "protest against" the Church of which outside it is said to be no salvation (I'm saying "it is said" because I'm only repeating what I've seen - repeat, not my own words). Protestants can be brought up on doctrine that they don't know is knowingly-and-willingly protesting against that Church (don't they find out later though?) of which outside is no salvation, but the purpose of Protestantism is objectively the same nonetheless. I don't know what this means for those who are "imperfectly united" (not my words) to the Church but are outside the Catholic aspect of that Church. I do think that the Church is too wishy-washy on this ever since V2 though.

 

[Michie]

Protestants are united with the Church but imperfectly. That why they are called our separated brethren.

 

[narnia59]

Well, I'm not aware of any Dogma of the Catholic Church that says the "inner disposition of the heart" contributes anything toward the justification of the person.

However, I do know of this Dogma:

Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

As a Dogma, we as Catholics are bound by penalty of excommunication to believe.

Please look it up for yourself.

So to be clear. Your position is that for example, someone born who never had the opportunity to hear of Christ (Native Americans before the Europeans arrived for example or someone in Africa or on a remote island) -- since those people never even heard of Christ or his Church, they are all in hell?

 

[narnia59]

Well, I'm not aware of any Dogma of the Catholic Church that says the "inner disposition of the heart" contributes anything toward the justification of the person.

I believe you can find the concept of the inner disposition of the heart in “On Promotion of False Doctrines”, a papal encyclical by Pope Pius IX in 1863

Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.