Justification and Sanctification ?

[timothyu]

Through God’s word everything has already been proven and disproven and God don’t need us for his glorious truth to be revealed.

Yes, as He simply said from the Garden to the Resurrection... My way, not your way.

 

[Clare73]

My main statement about forgiveness and repentance was stated when I said, “However, King David committed sin, yet he repented, made many sacrifices, many confessions of wrong, many prayers, many supplications, many psalms, and God said David was a man after His own heart, Acts13:22 KJV“ which is what you are pointing out.

Abraham’s faith was counted for righteousness for the purpose of the new covenant promises, so that the Gentiles could be saved by faith who had no law, which righteousness by faith was established 430 years before the law, Galatians 3:17 KJV.

The authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the law was not given for righteousness, for two reasons:
1) righteousness had always been by faith (Gal 3:11, Ge 15:6),
2) all who rely on observing the law are under a curse (Gal 3:10) because righteousness is by faith, not by law (Gal 3:11-12).

That is the mystery spoken about in the gospel, Colossians 1:26-27 KJV, Galatians 3:14 KJV. This faith promise did not come into force until Christ died on the cross,

You just said righteousness has been by faith since Abraham (Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3)

Hebrews 9:16-17 KJV. In the mean time God established the Law under Moses where the people had to sacrificed animals and adhere to covenant laws to stand righteousness before God.

Not according to authoritative NT apostolic teaching.
The law was not given to make righteous, it was give to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), to lead them to Christ for righteousness by faith (Gal 3:24).

 

[Clare73]

Clare73, Apostle Paul was preaching the gospel and being led by the Holy Spirit that ordered them not to stop. When Apostle Paul encounter those that opposed the gospel, he had no choice but to confront them because the were trying to stop the work of the gospel spreading. They did not go looking for those who opposed the work of the gospel. They were confronted and persecuted by these people, so Paul and the other Apostles were within their right to point out their false teachings.

You don't have to go "looking for" false teachers in order to pit yourself against them, you can pit yourself against them when they come to you to attack the gospel:

1) False brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom (from the law) we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves (to the law). We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you (Gal 2:4-5, 2 Co 11:26).

2) As for those agitators, I wish they (who preached circumcision) would emasculate (castrate) themselves (as they mutilate the gospel). (Gal 5:12)

 

[biblelesson]

You just said righteousness has been by faith since Abraham (Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3)

This will help you understand what the righteousness of Abraham and the promise God made to him mean: let me help you out. This will take some studying on your part so here you go! First read the promises God gave to Abraham in the Old Testament. A concordance will assist you. Then trace that promise to his sons Isaac and Jacob. Then trace the promise “seed” and read all the scriptures relating to the promise “seed” and Abraham and who that seed is. Then read the difference between the sprinkling of the blood over all the people and the contents in temple. Then make the comparison between the temple blood and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus.

This is not a one liner approach! This will take some time, but when you are finished, you will understand what the rightiousness of Abraham mean in relation to inputting rightiousness mean.

Then we can talk.

 

[biblelesson]

Yes, as He simply said from the Garden to the Resurrection... My way, not your way.

You’re not saying anything different from what I said, but there are those that like to attack and debate. That’s fine. Keep attacking and debating! That’s your choice!

 

[Clare73]

This will help you understand what the righteousness of Abraham and the promise God made to him mean: let me help you out. This will take some studying on your part so here you go! First read the promises God gave to Abraham in the Old Testament.

The promises were seed (Ge 15:5) and an everlasting inheritance (Ge 17:8).

A concordance will assist you. Then trace that promise to his sons Isaac and Jacob. Then trace the promise “seed” and read all the scriptures relating to the promise “seed” and Abraham and who that seed is.

The "seed" is singular. . .all the promises were made to Abraham and Christ only (Gal 3:16).

Then read the difference between the sprinkling of the blood over all the people and the contents in temple.

No difference in purpose. . .it was for the cleansing of both people and the temple which was defiled by being in the midst of a sinful people.

Then make the comparison between the temple blood and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus.

The atoning blood was applied by hyssop for cleansing of the temple and cleansing of the OT people, as the atoning blood is applied by faith to the people and the temple (church, body of Christ) of the NT for the remission of sin and salvation from God's condemnation on sin.

This is not a one liner approach! This will take some time, but when you are finished, you will understand what the rightiousness of Abraham mean in relation to inputting rightiousness mean.

Imputing righteousness (justification) is simply crediting, reckoning, applying righteousness; i.e., a declaration of not guilty, a sentence of acquittal, a right standing with the Court, which is a forensic righteousness, not the actual righteousness of sanctification.

Then we can talk.

 

[biblelesson]

The promises were seed (Ge 15:5) and an everlasting inheritance (Ge 17:8).

The "seed" is singular. . .all the promises were made to Abraham and Christ only (Gal 3:16).

No difference in purpose. . .it was for the cleansing of both and people and the temple which was defiled by being in the midst of a sinful people.

The atoning blood was applied by hyssop for cleansing of the temple and cleansing of the OT people, as the atoning blood is applied by faith to the people and the temple (church, body of Christ) of the NT for the remission of sin and salvation from God's condemnation on sin.

Imputing righteousness (justification) is simply crediting, reckoning, applying righteousness; i.e., a declaration of not guilty, a sentence of acquittal, a right standing with the Court, which is a forensic righteousness, not the actual righteousness of sanctification

How are the promises connected to Abraham, his sons, Israel, Christ, and the law? How is rightiousness imputed onto a Christian based on Abraham’s faith, and as it relates to the Gentiles.

If the seed is singular, how did the promises relate to his sons, Israel, and the law, to include the law of circumsion, then salvation in Christ.

Not looking for an answer, it is just something to study when you have time.

 

[AbbaLove]

You’re not saying anything different from what I said, but there are those that like to attack and debate. That’s fine. Keep attacking and debating! That’s your choice!

Likewise some could contend that their posts are no more debateable than are some of your posts. You may view some posts that provide additional comment/insight as debate/attack when for all you know it could be inspired by a born again Believer ... not just their own opinion.

Say for exsmple your theology may be more that of Armenism or more that of Calvinsim or a melding of the two. GOD has only one theology and it may not be identical to your current theology. The purpose of these forums is a willingness to accept the possibility that not all born again Believers see eye-to-eye on their theological understanding. Maybe, they are both partly right and partly in need of further understanding ... (1 John 2:27).

Do you have the supernatural Gift of Discernment, like that of Paul ... so as to know when a post is out of step with your theology ?

 

[AbbaLove]

Not looking for an answer, it is just something to study when you have time.

Pretenious ? ... in response to Clare 73​

 

[timothyu]

You’re not saying anything different from what I said

T'is why I said yes.

 

[biblelesson]

Likewise some could contend that their posts are no more debateable than are some of your posts. You may view some posts that provide additional comment/insight as debate/attack when for all you know it could be inspired by a born again Believer ... not just their own opinion.

Say for exsmple your theology may be more that of Armenism or more that of Calvinsim or a melding of the two. GOD has only one theology and it may not be identical to your current theology. The purpose of these forums is a willingness to accept the possibility that not all born again Believers see eye-to-eye on their theological understanding. Maybe, they are both partly right and partly in need of further understanding ... (1 John 2:27).

Do you have the supernatural Gift of Discernment, like that of Paul ... so as to know when a post is out of step with your theology ?

I don’t have a theology! And Christians are given the gift of discernment by the Holy Spirit according to the gospel, 1 Corinthians 12:10 KJV

 

[Clare73]

How are the promises connected to Abraham, his sons, Israel, Christ, and the law?

The promises, "seed and everlasting possession" (Ge 15:5, Ge 17:8), were given to Abraham (Ge 12:7 13:15), Isaac ( Ge 26:3), Jacob (Ge 28:4, 35:12 and Christ (Gal 3:16) only.
Their connection is they were made to all of them by God, however, they did not receive the things promised (Heb 11:13), they did not receive a foot of ground there (Ac 7:5).
They saw by faith dimly and welcomed the heavenly realities from a distance (Heb 11:13), and were sure that what they ultimately hoped for would be theirs (Heb 11:1). Aliens and strangers on earth (Heb 11:13) their true home was in heaven, that country of their own (Heb 11:14).

How is rightiousness imputed onto a Christian based on Abraham’s faith, and as it relates to the Gentiles.

That is contra-NT.

According to authoritative NT apostolic teaching, righteousness imputed to the Christian is not based on Abraham's faith, it is based on their own faith in Jesus Christ (Ro 4:1-11).

From where are you drawing this contra-NT understanding?

Not looking for an answer, it is just something to study when you have time.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching addressing your questions provided above. . .

 

[Clare73]

Pretenious ? ... in response to Clare 73​

And assumptive. . .

 

[Dah'veed]

How are the promises connected to Abraham, his sons, Israel, Christ, and the law? How is rightiousness imputed onto a Christian based on Abraham’s faith, and as it relates to the Gentiles.

If the seed is singular, how did the promises relate to his sons, Israel, and the law, to include the law of circumsion, then salvation in Christ.

Not looking for an answer, it is just something to study when you have time.

It is a light thing that you should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and restore the remnant;
I will also make you a light for the gentiles, to be my salvation to the ends of the earth. Isa 49:6
Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a Servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy; Rom 15:8-13
For so the Lord has commanded us:
‘I have set you as a light to the Gentiles,
That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
Now when the Gentiles heard, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:46-48
Furthermore, brethren, pray that the word of the Lord may run swiftly and be glorified, even as it is with you. 2 Thess 3:1

 

[biblelesson]

The promises, "seed and everlasting possession" (Ge 15:5, Ge 17:8), were given to Abraham (Ge 12:7 13:15), Isaac ( Ge 26:3), Jacob (Ge 28:4, 35:12 and Christ (Gal 3:16) only.

Israel received the promise made to Abraham as well, Psalms 105:6-11 KJV.

 

[biblelesson]

That is contra-NT.

According to authoritative NT apostolic teaching, righteousness imputed to the Christian is not based on Abraham's faith, it is based on their own faith in Jesus Christ (Ro 4:1-11).

From where are you drawing this contra-NT understanding?

Romans 4:9-12 KJV
Romans 4:16 KJV

 

[Dah'veed]

Israel received the promise made to Abraham as well, Psalms 105:6-11 KJV.

‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ Acts 3:25-26
Christ redeemed us that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles; Gal 3:14
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:25-29

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bible Highlighter, sometimes we don’t have the full understanding of salvation in Christ Jesus and where sin fits in.

First sin had to be abolished in the world. This is not individual sin, but sin that man is born into, not of themselves, Romans 5:12 KJV, Romans 3:10 KJV

God offered eternal life for all mankind so that all mankind would not have to face the wages of sin, Romans 6:23 KJV. If God had not offered eternal life, no man on earth would have been able to be saved and would have to face hell fire.

So how would God accomplish this? There had to be a sacrifice to save man. Yes, Jesus body, Hebrews 10:5 KJV, and his shed blood, Colossians 1:14 KJV.

On the cross of Christ, God was reconciling the “world” unto himself not imputing their trespasses unto them, 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV.

So now the above takes care of “sin” that is the nature of sin, the Ademic nature man inherited from Adam, Romans 5:12 KJV.

So now what? Salvation has been set up for everyone in Christ Jesus through the cross; it’s a done deal, Jesus said it is finished, John 19:30 KJV.

So how does the salvation plan already established save us on an individual basis? The faith of Abraham! We are to believe on Christ and through the faith of Abraham and the promises and blessings he received, Galatians 3:8-9 KJV, Galatians 3:14 KJV, righteousness is also inputted onto us, Romans 4:22-25 KJV.

So the question of sin is answered in Christ. The question of forgiveness has been dealt with in Christ. When we believe on Christ we receive a down payment of our inheritance to the Kingdom, Ephesians 1:14 KjV, which is a promise of salvation, Ephesians 1:13 KJV.

So based on God’s salvation plan, there is no more sin, 1 John 3:9 KJV.

We were sinners from the beginning! It’s just that once we come to Christ, God conforms us sinners, who are now saved, to the image of His son through the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:29 KJV.

We are sinners, you, me, your friends, Calvinists, and anybody else, and we are only made righteous in One, that is Christ Jesus.

So sin has been taken care of at the cross. We are now being conformed to the image of Christ by the Spirit. Sometimes the conforming is difficult, but the Bible says we suffer for Christ, and God chastises his children. This is not for punishment, but to build us up to the peaceable fruit of righteousness, Hebrews 12:11 KJV.

If a man or woman chooses not to accept Christ, they forfeit salvation offered to them!

While you do need to first have a belief alone (without works) in your initial salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), you also have to continue in the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life as a part of God’s plan of salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Galatians 6:8-9) (Romans 8:13). So faith is not just a belief alone but it includes living a changed life. Everything in your Bible is a part of the faith.

But be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. These are Paul’s own words. Paul also basically said also that if we speak contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. You have to think. Jesus said to believers, depart from me, ye that work iniquity (See Matthew 7:22-23). This is sin. They justified the idea they could sin and still be saved. It’s obvious. Jesus warned how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bible Highlighter, sometimes we don’t have the full understanding of salvation in Christ Jesus and where sin fits in.

First sin had to be abolished in the world. This is not individual sin, but sin that man is born into, not of themselves, Romans 5:12 KJV, Romans 3:10 KJV

God offered eternal life for all mankind so that all mankind would not have to face the wages of sin, Romans 6:23 KJV. If God had not offered eternal life, no man on earth would have been able to be saved and would have to face hell fire.

So how would God accomplish this? There had to be a sacrifice to save man. Yes, Jesus body, Hebrews 10:5 KJV, and his shed blood, Colossians 1:14 KJV.

On the cross of Christ, God was reconciling the “world” unto himself not imputing their trespasses unto them, 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV.

So now the above takes care of “sin” that is the nature of sin, the Ademic nature man inherited from Adam, Romans 5:12 KJV.

So now what? Salvation has been set up for everyone in Christ Jesus through the cross; it’s a done deal, Jesus said it is finished, John 19:30 KJV.

So how does the salvation plan already established save us on an individual basis? The faith of Abraham! We are to believe on Christ and through the faith of Abraham and the promises and blessings he received, Galatians 3:8-9 KJV, Galatians 3:14 KJV, righteousness is also inputted onto us, Romans 4:22-25 KJV.

So the question of sin is answered in Christ. The question of forgiveness has been dealt with in Christ. When we believe on Christ we receive a down payment of our inheritance to the Kingdom, Ephesians 1:14 KjV, which is a promise of salvation, Ephesians 1:13 KJV.

So based on God’s salvation plan, there is no more sin, 1 John 3:9 KJV.

We were sinners from the beginning! It’s just that once we come to Christ, God conforms us sinners, who are now saved, to the image of His son through the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:29 KJV.

We are sinners, you, me, your friends, Calvinists, and anybody else, and we are only made righteous in One, that is Christ Jesus.

So sin has been taken care of at the cross. We are now being conformed to the image of Christ by the Spirit. Sometimes the conforming is difficult, but the Bible says we suffer for Christ, and God chastises his children. This is not for punishment, but to build us up to the peaceable fruit of righteousness, Hebrews 12:11 KJV.

If a man or woman chooses not to accept Christ, they forfeit salvation offered to them!

Also the imputation of Christ’s sacrifice is not only by having a faith alone in our initial salvation but it also includes walking in the light as he is in the light.

1 John 1:7
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

So you have to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin.

What is walking in the light?

According to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11, walking in the light is loving your brother. So you have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you. So while faith alone is needed at one time to gain the imputed righteousness of Christ, you also need 1 John 1:7 as a part of this, too. Because being cleansed by the blood is a salvation issue. No blood cleansing a believer means they are not saved.

 

[biblelesson]

While you do need to first have a belief alone (without works) in your initial salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), you also have to continue in the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life as a part of God’s plan of salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Galatians 6:8-9) (Romans 8:13). So faith is not just a belief alone but it includes living a changed life.

True, the sanctification process is done by the Holy Spirit, as I mentioned it can be difficult,

“We are now being conformed to the image of Christ by the Spirit. Sometimes the conforming is difficult, but the Bible says we suffer for Christ, and God chastises his children. This is not for punishment, but to build us up to the peaceable fruit of righteousness, Hebrews 12:11 KJV.”