Is the Earth Flat?

Degrees of Earth flatness:

  • It's not flat. It's a giant, spinning spaceball.

    Votes: 90 82.6%
  • It's flat, but all the other planets are giant, spinning spaceballs.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It's flat, and a dome surrounds it.

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • It's flat, a dome surrounds it, and the Earth is the center of the universe.

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • It's flat, domed, and planets/stars are actually illusions/objects in the dome.

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • It's all of the above, and the government is covering it all up at the behest of Satan.

    Votes: 8 7.3%

  • Total voters
    109
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comana

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You asked about seasonal change on the flat earth model. That particular video illustrates seasonal change on a flat earth model.

Yes, we have had those resources for hundreds of years but at the behest of heliocentric hegemony.
Are you conceding that seasonal change (which includes the midnight sun and no sunrise depending on the season at both the arctic and antarctic) as observed on Earth is impossible on the flat earth model?
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Not in the slightest.

However, it does show that the author does not understand basic geometry, makes false claims, and unsubstantiated claims.

Perspective does explain why something appears to get smaller the further away it is. And why it appears to get closer to the horizon. But it will never go below the horizon. To claim that lower part of the object will go out of sight due to perspective is false.

The sun does not get smaller. But it does gradually drop out of sight. This is not explained by perspective.

But even if perspective could explain a sunset, the animation showing the sun moving about above a flat earth fails to agree with observation. In this unworkable model, at a point on the earth experiencing sunrise, the sun is in the sky above (although not directly above). It is not anywhere near the horizon. Fail.
Right. in order align with real world experience the sun must never go beneath the disc. It has to move to light the entire world. And yet from our perspective it seems to go beneath while remaining the same size. If the sun got so far away that it could no longer be seen (night), it would also have to be too small to be seen. That never happens.
 
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comana

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And your point is?
My point is that the speed of the sun moving across the planet is known and it is constant at all times of the year. It is the speed of the earth’s rotation.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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My point is that the speed of the sun moving across the planet is known and it is constant at all times of the year. It is the speed of the earth’s rotation.
Yes, that was crazy about speeding up and slowing down. Might as well just say that the sun goes beneath the disk and the entire world is in night at the same time. Mind gams makes us think it is day in America and night in China.
 
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Edwin Wright

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Nope. The law of perspective also means objects get smaller as they approach the vanishing point. The sun and moon don't change size because they are so far away that the difference in distance between low on the horizon ant high in the sky is negligible.

Fail.
Here is a video that distinguishes between sunsets where the (typically land) horizon is relatively close versus an open sea where the horizon is relatively far (see minute 27 to minute 29):
In the latter case, you can see that the sun is clearly shrinking. I would suggest that you watch the entire video. It is often obfuscated by clouds and moisture. Probably the best depiction of the sun's apparent shrinking would be on a calm open sea in an otherwise arid climate.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Here is a video that distinguishes between sunsets where the (typically land) horizon is relatively close versus an open sea where the horizon is relatively far (see minute 27 to minute 29):
In the latter case, you can see that the sun is clearly shrinking. I would suggest that you watch the entire video. It is often obfuscated by clouds and moisture. Probably the best depiction of the sun's apparent shrinking would be on a calm open sea in an otherwise arid climate.
How ridiculous. The Sun obviously went below the horizon. As smaller portions were above the horizon it looked smaller.
Like this
 

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Akita Suggagaki

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Edwin Wright

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My point is that the speed of the sun moving across the planet is known and it is constant at all times of the year. It is the speed of the earth’s rotation.
Thanks for your input on this. Yes, in the heliocentric model, the earth rotates once per day every day and so the angular speed and hence, the apparent speed of the sun is constant at all times of the year. In the flat earth model, the sun is rotating (actually spiraling) around the North Pole (or Northern Center) between the Tropic of Cancer (June 21st) and the Tropic of Capricorn (December 21st). But while the orbital speed of the sun is never constant as it continually spirals between a smaller inner circle (Tropic of Cancer) and a larger outer circle (Tropic of Capricorn), it still only makes one rotation of the earth every 24 hours as it speeds up or slows down through the tropics. It would be interesting to work out the kinematic equations for ephemeris purposes. Hope this clarifies the matter.
 
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Edwin Wright

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How ridiculous. The Sun obviously went below the horizon. As smaller portions were above the horizon it looked smaller.
Like this
That's a really big sun. Magnified, perhaps? Maybe this sister video to the one you just presented will change your mind. So thank you for that.
 
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The Liturgist

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So, was there something in the magnetic field, wind currents, or some other unknown force that effected all three airmen to such an extent that it is no longer safe to navigate an aircraft in that region?

No. The airmen were inexperienced on the route and inadvertantly flew into a mountain slope. This type of accident is known as a “controlled flight into terrain” and can occur due to suboptimal visibility, cockpit workload, bad crew resource management, inexperience with a route, ATC error, pilots being distracted while performing an unexpected approach into an airport, and of course these accidents were even more common before GPS technology enabled TCAS, Terrain Collision Avoidance System.

Now, bearing in mind that commercial aviation is extremely safe and has a culture of safety, I would note that controlled flight into terrain is one of the more common causes of aviation disasters.

I fail to see how the one crashed Concorde halted that program.. you stated the reason.. declining traffic that would make it unnecessary and therefore.... too costly to build new aircraft.

Building new aircraft would have been neither necessary nor possible; it should be remembered each airline had seven aircraft to cover two daily three hour Atlantic crossings, and the aircraft were the most precisely maintained in the BA and AF fleet. This meant the aircraft when retired had very low hours and pressurization cycles and had not been allowed to deteriorate in condition since delivery in the late 1970s. Ironically, the DC10, some in rather bad condition, and which began being delivered since 1971-72, along with its competitor, the Lockheed Tristar, but the DC10 proved to be an exceptionally good freighter, and passenger airframes were refurbished with a modern cockpit and sold by Boeing as MD-10s around the same time as the accident. So basically, while Concorde is extremely special, the consensus is that the aircraft type had at least another decade of service life. I think had one not crashed, the oil price crunch in 2007-2008 and the widespread adoption of “green” enthusiasm at the same time, and the concurrent global financial crash and housing market bubble bursting would have lead to a 2009 retirement.

Rather, what happened was the decline in traffic on Air France Concordes post-accident proved lasting, because of the fear it had caused in travelers, but British Airways did not take as much of a hit. The two airlines had an agreement that Concorde would remain in service only while both operated the type, so when Air France discontinued Concorde in early 2003, it forced British Airways to end the program in October of that year. The

Both airlines, but especially British Airways, had found the aircraft extremely profitable, with flights typically selling around $15,000-$20,000 per seat, about the cost of buying an automobile, so that in airline terminology is very high RASM (Revenue per Available Seat Miles) vs. CASM (Cost per Available Seat Miles) which while more expensive than for other airliners in the fleet, was not dramatically more expensive. It also helped that the airliners were sold at a very low price to BA and AF by their national governments in order to save face after most orders for Concorde and other SSTs were cancelled due to the oil shortage in the early 1970s combined with concerns about sonic booms on overland routes basically limiting the type to overwater flying.
 
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prodromos

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You asked about seasonal change on the flat earth model. That particular video illustrates seasonal change on a flat earth model.
But it is incompatible with other observed phenomena, which makes it a false model.
 
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prodromos

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That's a really big sun. Magnified, perhaps? Maybe this sister video to the one you just presented will change your mind. So thank you for that.
Apparently you don't understand the difference between wide angle lenses and telephoto lenses in photography, or that the time-lapse with the telephoto lense disproves your interpretation of the wide angle time-lapse.
 
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prodromos

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Here is a video that distinguishes between sunsets where the (typically land) horizon is relatively close versus an open sea where the horizon is relatively far (see minute 27 to minute 29):
In the latter case, you can see that the sun is clearly shrinking. I would suggest that you watch the entire video. It is often obfuscated by clouds and moisture. Probably the best depiction of the sun's apparent shrinking would be on a calm open sea in an otherwise arid climate.
This dude claims that the horizon is always at eye level, which it would be if the earth was flat, but it is demonstrably not the case if you use a water level to observe the horizon from different elevations. The higher you go up, the more the horizon drops below eye level which proves the earth is a globe.

His little diagram of the globe model which he uses to mock the globe earth, has little stick figures which are several orders of magnitude taller than mount everest, showing sight lines many thousands of miles longer than the distance we can actually see to the horizon. In reality we could not see to the end of the stick figures foot.
 
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The Liturgist

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I just want to segue for a moment to explain why this issue matters to me, and I suspect my friend @prodromos and many other Christians:

The development of the aerospace industry is a fair ‘accompli, but the importance of a correct understanding of geography goes far beyond that, a comprehension the spherical world being vital for navigation, which is why, for instance, the Suez and Panama Canals were constructed in the 19th century, the latter opening in the early 20th, so that ships did not have to sail all the way around the Horn of Africa or of South America respectively. It is important also for civil engineering, road building, and over-the-horizon radio, since the propagation qualities of for instance, short wave, which will go well over the horizon and allow international transmission, versus microwave, which sends out a signal in a straight line and thus requires line of sight, and satellite transmissions (used for television and last-resort telephony/internet connectivity) as navigation aids like GPS, GLOSNASS, Galileo etc, which require an understanding of the latency in the signal caused both by the altitude of the satellite and the time it takes electromagnetic radiation such as light or radio to reach such an object, and also the slight difference in clock speeds on the satellites due to general relativity.

If, owing to a misinterpretation of Christianity, people exclude themselves, and teach their children the falsehood of a flat Earth (which for most of my life was a doctrine so absurd that only within the past few years have I encountered people who believe it), this causes economic harm to the people subscribing to the flat earth model. And more importantly, it causes spiritual harm, because the issue is a distraction from our need as Christians to worship Jesus Christ our God, wastes resources for which Christians are obliged to use for charity, to help the poor, and creates an impediment to Christianity by giving strident atheist hardliners such as Richard Dawkins a basis for attacking us as a community, on the basis of our relative intelligence.
 
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The Liturgist

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Bottom line: With today's ETOP ratings, there is no obvious safety or economic reason not to have commercial transcontinental flights over Antarctica — not distance, not terrain, not weather, nothing. The (alleged) and (exclusively southern) transcontinental flights across vast stretches of the Southern Ocean would be much longer.

Firstly, its not ETOP, its ETOPS (Extended Twin OPerationS, or as some prefer to call it, Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim), and even with ETOPS 180 there are places where a trijet or four engined jet such as the B-747-8F can get to that a twin is not allowed to, due to the added requirements for diversion airports which is a requirement for ETOPS.

Secondly, the flights we have mentioned are not alleged but actual.

Thirdly, while this route is not subject to scheduled service, due to very low demand, if you chartered an aircraft such as a 747 to fly you from Buenos Aires to Melbourne, Australia, you will get very close to the South Pole. Indeed a famous B747 pilot, Kelsey Hughes, offered, if enough flat Earthers got together to get the funds for such a charter (which is not an impossible proposition by any means, since tourism companies charter aircraft routinely and profitably) to organize such a route with his airline Atlas Air.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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That's a really big sun. Magnified, perhaps? Maybe this sister video to the one you just presented will change your mind. So thank you for that.
Why would it? Again the Sun is going beneath the horizon and so a smaller portion of it is visible. A telescopic lens helps show that more clearly. That is why you prefer non telescopic. It helps with your illusion. Why do you persist in this nonsense?
 
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Edwin Wright

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Why would it? Again the Sun is going beneath the horizon and so a smaller portion of it is visible. A telescopic lens helps show that more clearly. That is why you prefer non telescopic. It helps with your illusion. Why do you persist in this nonsense?
A telescopic lens may enable you to view the shrinking sun a bit longer but eventually, it will shrink into its vanishing point. It's called perspective. I do prefer using telescopic lenses, but eventually, perspective and atmospheric obfuscation predominate. In other words, at some point in the sun's transit, there is simply insufficient direct light at such an obtuse angle to penetrate the atmosphere. I trust that this clarifies the matter.
 
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