Is the Earth Flat?

[The Liturgist]

Not so, and the reason the sun apparently shrinks to a vanishing point under dry atmospheric conditions is that it is not as far away as the ball earth model claims. Watch the video again.

As I said, I don’t have time to watch those. If you have an argument to present, please present it in thread (along with any images or equations you need to make your point).

Regarding the distance from the Earth to the Sun, this has been vigorously proven (it is approximately eight light minutes away, meaning that a beam of light takes eight minutes to reach us from the Sun), and if it were smaller and closer like you suggest, it would kill all of us due to ionizing radiation, like gamma rays and X-rays, in addition to thermal radiation. Indeed in planetary science this is understood as the reason why planets that orbit close to their star, such as a red dwarf, which do not rotate on their axis, would be uninhabitable, being perpetually scorched on one side and frozen on the other.

Well it represents and entirely different understanding of the physical universe. That does not bother me in the least. I think we just have to accept that and look for theological truth rather than geological truth.
View attachment 329770

This is also valid. The fact that Genesis 1, out of all such accounts in the world’s religions, can be reconciled with our current understanding of science is noteworthy but unsurprising, and it certainly does not reduce Sacred Scripture to a science textbook.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

If you have an argument to present, please present it in thread (along with any images or equations you need to make your point).

I think he is just having some fun with us.

 

[prodromos]

My point is that only the flat earth model accounts for both extremes.

That is false. Globe earth accounts for all kinds of atmospheric conditions.

 

[The Liturgist]

That is false. Globe earth accounts for all kinds of atmospheric conditions.

Not only that, but the Flat Earth model cannot account for any atmospheric conditions (because if the Earth were flat, it would not have an atmosphere, since these are by definition semi-spherical, the exceptions being the clouds of gas or vapor that form around comets as they are heated by the Sun during their centuries-long journeys through the solar system, producing beautiful tails.

 

[prodromos]

How ridiculous. The Sun obviously went below the horizon. As smaller portions were above the horizon it looked smaller.
Like this

Ocean Horizon Sunset Clear Sky Time Lapse Stock Footage SBV-327603549 - Storyblocks

Ocean Horizon Sunset Clear Sky Time Lapse Stock Footage SBV-327603549 - Storyblocks

www.storyblocks.com

I just wanted to point out this little video demonstrates how atmospheric refraction often allows us to see objects which should be hidden behind the horizon. As the sun reaches near the horizon it starts to flatten a bit at the bottom and takes on a squashed appearance. This is because the change in density of the atmosphere is bending light downwards so that the bottom of the sun is still visible even though it has already dipped below the horizon. You can see the effect of atmospheric refraction in real time.

 

[A_Thinker]

A telescopic lens may enable you to view the shrinking sun a bit longer but eventually, it will shrink into its vanishing point. It's called perspective. I do prefer using telescopic lenses, but eventually, perspective and atmospheric obfuscation predominate. In other words, at some point in the sun's transit, there is simply insufficient direct light at such an obtuse angle to penetrate the atmosphere. I trust that this clarifies the matter.

The sun doesn't shrink to a vanishing point. Noone on earth has ever seen it do that, using their naked eyes ... or a telescope.

The sun drops behind the horizon (i.e. the curvature of the earth) ... and around 12 hours later, rises up again from the horizon.

 

[The Liturgist]

The sun doesn't shrink to a vanishing point. Noone on earth has ever seen it do that, using their naked eyes ... or a telescope.

The sun drops behind the horizon (i.e. the curvature of the earth) ... and around 12 hours later, rises up again from the horizon.

Indeed, the sun is so bright one would have to travel at least several millions of parsecs away from it for it to become indistinguishable from the light of the Milky Way (and even then some of our stellar neighbors would remain visible).

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Indeed, the sun is so bright one would have to travel at least several millions of parsecs away from it for it to become indistinguishable from the light of the Milky Way (and even then some of our stellar neighbors would remain visible).

If they are serious they must believe that the Earth's atmosphere darkens the sun. That is why I asked at one point how far away it must be before night. But of course no answer.

 

[Michael Snow]

Are most 'flat earthers' Christians? Is there any demographic info or polls identifying who these people are?

 

[prodromos]

Are most 'flat earthers' Christians? Is there any demographic info or polls identifying who these people are?

I doubt many of the prominent ones on YouTube are. They have a very unchristian attitude towards anyone who disagrees with them.

Mind you, I suspect that a number of them do not actually believe the nonsense they post, but do it simply to get views on YouTube and generate income. The more controversial they are, the more views they get.

 

[prodromos]

Finally! A flat earth map that is actually accurate!

 

[JacksBratt]

I doubt many of the prominent ones on YouTube are. They have a very unchristian attitude towards anyone who disagrees with them.

Mind you, I suspect that a number of them do not actually believe the nonsense they post, but do it simply to get views on YouTube and generate income. The more controversial they are, the more views they get.

I don't know what the ratio of Christian to non Christian is... when it comes to FE believers.

I also don't judge the person's state of salvation by their actions. I know we are supposed to be lights to the Lord and others are supposed to see Christ's love through our actions and character.

However, having said that. I have had some pretty "unchristian" attitudes toward me.... for arguing points that don't make sense about the globe model and what raises questions toward it. Or.... explaining the concept of the FE and how the model is viewed to work.

Some of the "keynote" speakers at the FE conferences were far from "unchristian" in their manner and debate tactics. I have actually found that those who disagree with the FE'ers.. to be quite aggressive.

Rob Skiba, a very strong Christian and believer in the FE was one of the most kind hearted men I have listened to.

 

[JacksBratt]

Are most 'flat earthers' Christians? Is there any demographic info or polls identifying who these people are?

I don't know if you could get an accurate measure of this.

I do know that there are people who were atheists.... until they researched the FE model and came to believe it to be true.
They then came to the conclusion that God must be real in order for the FE to be correct.. and are now strong Christians.

 

[prodromos]

I don't know what the ratio of Christian to non Christian is... when it comes to FE believers.

I also don't judge the person's state of salvation by their actions. I know we are supposed to be lights to the Lord and others are supposed to see Christ's love through our actions and character.

However, having said that. I have had some pretty "unchristian" attitudes toward me.... for arguing points that don't make sense about the globe model and what raises questions toward it. Or.... explaining the concept of the FE and how the model is viewed to work.

Some of the "keynote" speakers at the FE conferences were far from "unchristian" in their manner and debate tactics. I have actually found that those who disagree with the FE'ers.. to be quite aggressive.

Rob Skiba, a very strong Christian and believer in the FE was one of the most kind hearted men I have listened to.

Do you believe that all of your responses towards people arguing against the flat earth, have been full of Christian charity?

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you believe that all of your responses towards people arguing against the flat earth, have been full of Christian charity?

No, I'm not naive enough or too proud to admit that I have not been Christian in all of my responses. Not just in discussions about FE, globe earth or many other topics on this forum.

To associate the actions of people to one particular topic, I believe, is not fair. People, when in discussions on any topic, can get passionate and cross lines.

However, to state that "FE'ers" as a collective, don't behave in Christian ways.. I think is incorrect.

In my experiences, they are very focused and matter of fact... but not un christian..... anymore than any other group of people on any topic no matter which position they hold.

 

[prodromos]

However, to state that "FE'ers" as a collective, don't behave in Christian ways.. I think is incorrect.

Who made such a claim?

 

[JacksBratt]

Who made such a claim?

Did I missunderstand you in Post #1130?

Where you said:
I doubt many of the prominent ones on YouTube are. They have a very unchristian attitude towards anyone who disagrees with them.

In resonse to Michael Snow in Post # 1129

Are most 'flat earthers' Christians? Is there any demographic info or polls identifying who these people are?

 

[prodromos]

Did I missunderstand you in Post #1130?

Yes, you did.
Nathan Oakley is one flat earther on YouTube who immediately comes to mind. There are several others who I have not seen in a while so their names escape me, but their videos were in a similar vein to Oakley's. When I said "unchristian" I was making an understatement.
My comment was about them, not flat earthers in general, many of whom I have seen are gentle souls.

 

[prodromos]

Yes, you did.
Nathan Oakley is one flat earther on YouTube who immediately comes to mind. There are several others who I have not seen in a while so their names escape me, but their videos were in a similar vein to Oakley's. When I said "unchristian" I was making an understatement.
My comment was about them, not flat earthers in general, many of whom I have seen are gentle souls.

And speaking of gentle souls, I've just learned of the passing of Bob Knodel, a prominent flat earther.

 

[JacksBratt]

And speaking of gentle souls, I've just learned of the passing of Bob Knodel, a prominent flat earther.

Rob Skiba... a very kind, thoughtful, soft spoken and gentle man.. also passed away from complications of COVID.

That man, covered all things controversial in Biblical theology and he did it with logic backed up by scripture and reinforced with many other historical text books and accepted articles of various media.

The true history of this world was surgically opened to all that would listen to him... AND accept his humble challenge of "Don't believe me... check it out for yourself".

He also stated, many times.... Every FE believer started in the very same spot that everyone does.. with the belief "This is crazy, that's stupid, the earth is a ball, So.... we understand your shock at the mere thought of a Flat earth"