Annihilation=No Wrath

[Der Alte]

Duplicate post deleted.

 

[Der Alte]

The most ironic dogmatically sticking to dogma I often see is the repetitive posting of Matthew 25:46. Because it says those golden words "eternal punishment". But they in their dogmatic dogma, fail to acknowledge the first half of verse 46 and what brings it about.
To paraphrase Jesus says, whatever you do for one person, you've done for him, so you will go away to eternal life. Now either Jesus is being literal or he isn't.
But folks who dogmatically stick to dogma have such a narrow view, they aren't able to take things like that into consideration.

So you are of the opinion that a sinner can live like the devil all his/her life and will be instantly granted eternal life just by helping one person? Is there any other vss. which back this up? IIRC there are two groups in Matt 25:31-46 what happens to the other group?
Why don't you tell us dogmatic folks what the passage "really means" since you seem to be the only one on the right track?

 

[BurningBush84]

MMXX believes that somewhere in between Matthew 7:22 and Matthew 7:23 the wicked will receive a whipping before they get thrown into the lake of fire. Is this correct MMXX ?

Or do you believe Judgement Day will last 1,000 years ? Since a day is like a 1,000 years. So maybe you believe they will be whipped for 1,000 years before they get thrown into the lake of fire ? And will they burn for a 1,000 years before they get annihilated ?

Do they get whipped before Jesus says, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." ???

Odd that's not mentioned in Matthew 7 or Matt 25.

 

[BurningBush84]

The most ironic dogmatically sticking to dogma I often see is the repetitive posting of Matthew 25:46. Because it says those golden words "eternal punishment". But they in their dogmatic dogma, fail to acknowledge the first half of verse 46 and what brings it about.

To paraphrase Jesus says, whatever you do for one person, you've done for him, so you will go away to eternal life. Now either Jesus is being literal or he isn't.

But folks who dogmatically stick to dogma have such a narrow view, they aren't able to take things like that into consideration.

The Bible says whoever does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16)

Good works without true faith in Jesus are like filthy rags to God (Isaiah 64:6-Hebrews 11:6 - Luke 6:33)

 

[Der Alte]

They're not crystal clear in the way you want them to be. That's why they're debated.
I said, more than once, that if there is annellation, there's punishment before annihilation takes place on the Last Day. But apparently you don't pay attention to what's said, and just keep repeating yourself.

Scripture?

 

[Der Alte]

The most ironic dogmatically sticking to dogma I often see is the repetitive posting of Matthew 25:46. Because it says those golden words "eternal punishment". But they in their dogmatic dogma, fail to acknowledge the first half of verse 46 and what brings it about.
To paraphrase Jesus says, whatever you do for one person, you've done for him, so you will go away to eternal life. Now either Jesus is being literal or he isn't.
But folks who dogmatically stick to dogma have such a narrow view, they aren't able to take things like that into consideration.

Oh please tell us poor, misguided folk what Jesus "really meant" in Matt 25:46?

 

[ozso]

The Bible says whoever does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16)

Usually when someone is condemned, it means they're condemned to death.

Good works without true faith in Jesus are like filthy rags to God (Isaiah 64:6-Hebrews 11:6 - Luke 6:33)

Then how do you explain what Jesus said regarding those going away to eternal life in Matthew 25:31-46?

 

[ozso]

MMXX believes that somewhere in between Matthew 7:22 and Matthew 7:23 the wicked will receive a whipping before they get thrown into the lake of fire. Is this correct MMXX ?

You like to quote Luke 16:19-31 a lot; the rich man has been in torment in hades for at least 2000 years.

Or do you believe Judgement Day will last 1,000 years ? Since a day is like a 1,000 years. So maybe you believe they will be whipped for 1,000 years before they get thrown into the lake of fire ? And will they burn for a 1,000 years before they get annihilated ?

I think if one takes Luke 16:19-31 literally, the rich man has been punished in hades at least 2000 years

Do they get whipped before Jesus says, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." ???

Odd that's not mentioned in Matthew 7 or Matt 25.

The standard teaching of eternal punishment is, the wicked are punished in hades, like the rich man, and then they are judged on Judgment Day and are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Which is called the second death.

 

[ozso]

Oh please tell us poor, misguided folk what Jesus "really meant" in Matt 25:46?

You use it so much I was hoping you'd tell me. Do those who whatever for someone go away to eternal life? If not, what does Jesus mean? Surely you've figured out that part of a verse you use so much.

 

[BurningBush84]

Usually when someone is condemned, it means they're condemned to death.

Then how do you explain what Jesus said regarding those going away to eternal life in Matthew 25:31-46?

Which type of death are you talking about????
The death described in Genesis 2:17 ? Or the type of death described in Luke 9:60 ? Or the type in John 11:11 ? Or the type in Luke 23:46 ? Or the type of death in Romans 6:23 ? Or the type described in Luke 16:23 ? Or the type in Ecclesiastes 9:5 ? Or the type in Revelation 20:14 ? Or the type described in Hebrews 9:27 ?

Matthew 25 pretty cut and dry. I let scripture interpret scripture. Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.".

Obviously the goats got condemned to the Lake of Fire as did the Devil and his angels.

The sheep obviously had true faith in Jesus. "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6

 

[ozso]

Scripture?

Luke 16:19-31, Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[BurningBush84]

You like to quote Luke 19:31 a lot; the rich man has been in torment in hades for at least 2000 years.

I think if one takes Luke 16:19-31 literally, the rich man has been punished in hades at least 2000 years

The standard teaching of eternal punishment is, the wicked are punished in hades, like the rich man, and then they are judged on Judgment Day and are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Which is called the second death.

And if the Rich Man gets annihilated he will never even remember being punished. What's the purpose of a punishment that you'll never remember ?? Nothing. Punishment has no purpose if you'll never remember it.

The standard for me is Hebrews 9:27, "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,".

Keyword = ONCE. Not twice. Once. Hebrews 9:27 does NOT say, "Just as some people are destined to die twice".

The Rich Man's body died, his soul went to Hades where it is suffering eternal destruction. Verse 26 proves its forever. On the Last Day his body will be reunited with his soul and he will be transferred to the Lake of Fire. The Devil and his angels will join the Rich Man where they will suffer eternal destruction/torment/punishment.

 

[BurningBush84]

It's in the Bible: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

He's saving us from death, and giving us the gift of life. That's Christianity 101, innit?

What's so bad about death that we need to be saved from it ?

 

[ozso]

Which type of death are you talking about????
The death described in Genesis 2:17 ? Or the type of death described in Luke 9:60 ? Or the type in John 11:11 ? Or the type in Luke 23:46 ? Or the type of death in Romans 6:23 ? Or the type described in Luke 16:23 ? Or the type in Ecclesiastes 9:5 ? Or the type in Revelation 20:14 ? Or the type described in Hebrews 9:27 ?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

That death.

Matthew 25 pretty cut and dry. I let scripture interpret scripture. Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.".

Obviously the goats got condemned to the Lake of Fire as did the Devil and his angels.

The sheep obviously had true faith in Jesus. "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6

The only stipulation given for separating the sheep from the goats is an act of charity rendered or not rendered. Nothing else comes into play in the story.

So is it literal, or is it figurative?

 

[BurningBush84]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

That death.

The only stipulation given for separating the sheep from the goats is an act of charity rendered or not rendered. Nothing else comes into play in the story.

So is it literal, or is it figurative?

So you must believe the Bible is full of contradictions then ?

 

[ozso]

What's so bad about death that we need to be saved from it ?

Death is the worst thing that can happen to a person. Even if it means the person will lead a life in pain, be horribly disfigured, paralyzed and blind, doctors will still save car crash burn victim from death. The worst penalty for crime is being sentenced to death. God gave his only begotten son to save us from death. When Jesus found out Lazarus was dead, Jesus wept. The greatest and most significant miracle ever performed by Christ, was conquering death.

 

[ozso]

So you must believe the Bible is full of contradictions then ?

You're deflecting and avoiding answering the question. Is Matthew 25:31-46, especially the whole conclusion in verse 46, literal or figurative?

 

[BurningBush84]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

That death.

The only stipulation given for separating the sheep from the goats is an act of charity rendered or not rendered. Nothing else comes into play in the story.

So is it literal, or is it figurative?

An act of charity without faith doesn't count. I already showed you proof of that.

 

[ozso]

An act of charity without faith doesn't count. I already showed you proof of that.

You're still deflecting and avoiding answering the question. Is Matthew 25:31-46, especially the whole conclusion in verse 46, literal or figurative?

 

[ozso]

Everlasting fire does not mean everlasting fire ?

But if you do not obey me to keep the Sabbath day holy by not carrying any load as you come through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle an unquenchable fire in the gates of Jerusalem that will consume her fortresses. Jeremiah 17:27

According to that, everlasting ie unquenchable fire consumes.

Everlasting fire means a state of non existence??

It does if it consumes that which is put into it.

Eternal punishment does not mean eternal punishment? Eternal punishment means a state of non existence??

Death is the ultimate punishment. Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life. Everlasting death is everlasting punishment. When a criminal is put to death, that punishment is final and permanent. There's no possibility whatsoever of repreve or parol.