Justification and Sanctification ?

[AbbaLove]

I see Paul as clearly referring to his life in Judaism prior to his conversion to life in Christ ... Romans 7:25
Nor are we sinless in Christ ... 1 John 1:8-10.

So, far you seem to be in the minority (2 out of 24 commentaries) when it comes to interpreting what Paul meant when he says he is "chief" of sinners as prior to his born again conversion trying to live according to the Law. Whereas 22 out of 24 commentaries believe Paul is referring to present tense that after His born again conversion he still considers himself "foremost - chief" of sinners. At least that was how another post understood 22 out of 24 commentaries as a born again Believer still being a constant battle with sin. Whereas, James would seem to disagree with 22 of those commentaries. However James would seem to differ ...

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. ... James 4:7​

__________________________________________________________​

Have you ever given much thought to the following sequence ... "you were" ... washed, sanctified, justified...

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. ... 1 Corinthians 6:11​

Some post (modern-day) theologians now leave out washing (water baptism), and put justification before sanctitication which seems to be the engrained mindset of Christian theology across denominations. Have you ever considered that new (born again) Followers of Christ (Galatians 3:28) being quided by HIS Spirit are sanctified before justified? I would like to know your thinking ... not by scholarly commentary teaching as good as it seems., Instead as His Spirit teachs you the significance of being first sanctified (definition as His Spirit teaches you) and then justified (definition as His Spirit teaches you) ...

26 I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His TRUE and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught. 28 And now, little children, remain in Christ, so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming.… 1 John 2:26-28​

_______________________________________________​

Is it possible to discuss that according to Galatians 3:28 (born again women are as qualifed as born again men) that one is sanctified before one is justified and exactly what that means according to how His Spirit has instructed you (1John 2:26-28), and not relying as much on theological commentaries that may differ.

Many may say ... "What difference does it really make?" Isn't that the real question that we should first tackle ... as His Spirit informs us. Can we all agree that His Spirit teaches us Truth so that there is no disunity. Is this even possible in post modern Christianity than 1st Century Cristianity? Should we give it a try or would it deteriorate as bantering. What does it really matter which one comes first or whether it's possible for both to be simultaneousl ???

 

[BurningBush84]

Well of course Jesus is going to say , "sin no more". What else is he suppose to say? "Just try and cut back on the sinning" ? In Matthew 5:48 it appears Jesus demands perfection. But he also said we should pray, "forgive us our trespasses". Unless your one of those people who think you should never pray the Lord's Prayer more than once in your lifetime.

 

[AbbaLove]

"Can't stop sinning" is prior to new birth. They do much better after new birth.
But we are not sin free after the new birth (1 Jn 1:8-10). That comes only in glory.

John very well could be referring to nominal Christians that may or may not be saved or born again.

Is it possible that even you have been taken in (dupped) by scholarly commentaries of distinquished men over that of the Words of Jesus and those of Paul to the Corinthian church ? You stand your ground based on the teaching of HIS Spirit and not that of theological man that is debatable. If your stance seems in the minority to scholarly theologians you stay on course abiding in HIM.

Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.” (John 5:14)​

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." (John 8:11)​

Paul as a Follower of Christ told the Corinthian Church to stop sinning .- except MSG translation ...

awake up, as is right, and sin not; for certain have an ignorance of God; for shame to you I say it. (YLT)​

Sober up morally and stop sinning, for some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame. (NASB)​

Be sensible and stop sinning. You should be embarrassed that some people still don't know about God. (CEV)​

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. (KJV)​

Think carefully about what is right, and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don’t know God at all. (NLT)​

Be sober-minded [be sensible, wake up from your spiritual stupor] as you ought, and stop sinning; for some [of you] have​

no knowledge of God [you are disgracefully ignorant of Him, and ignore His truths]. I say this to your shame. (Amplified Bible)​

​

Think straight. Awaken to the holiness of life. No more playing fast and loose with resurrection facts. Ignorance of God is a luxury you can’t afford in times like these. Aren’t you embarrassed that you’ve let this kind of thing go on as long as you have? (MSG)​

The MSG could be the favored translation preferred by 22 of those 24 scholars to defend their belief that it's impossibe for a born again new creation (Galatians 3:28) in Christ to stop sinning. They base this on their belief that Paul was "foremost,- chief sinner" after his born again conversion as a new man in Christ. It's like they forgot to read the next chapter - Romans 8.

One should realize that the position of the majority of today's theologians, evangelists and pastors makes an allowance for sin: So the church pews stay warm. That's also why one seldom hears a church sermon in the 21st Century about hell. Afterall it's becoming more common to hear of scholarly theologians that don't believe in an actual hell. Otherwise, if preached it would make some church goers feel uncomfortable. They might leave and not come back.

 

[timothyu]

I've yet to see anyone give up the animal instincts they were born with, yet there are those who willingly chose to think in the term 'others' rather than 'self'. (in spite of the instinct that causes the occasional stumble)

 

[Clare73]

So, far you seem to be in the minority (2 out of 24 commentaries) when it comes to interpreting what Paul meant when he says he is "chief" of sinners as prior to his born again conversion trying to live according to the Law. Whereas 22 out of 24 commentaries believe Paul is referring to present tense that after His born again conversion he still considers himself "foremost - chief" of sinners. At least that was how another post understood 22 out of 24 commentaries as a born again Believer still being a constant battle with sin. Whereas, James would seem to disagree with 22 of those commentaries. However James would seem to differ ...

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. ... James 4:7​

__________________________________________________________​

Does not the NT provide adequate demonstration of why Paul claimed (1Tim 1:13) he was such: blasphemer (Ac 26:11), persecutor (Ac 8:3, Ac 9:1, Ac 22:4-5, Ac 22:19, Ac 26:10) and violent man (Ac 7:57-58) when he was in Judaism?

Have you ever given much thought to the following sequence ... "you were" ... washed, sanctified, justified...

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. ... 1 Corinthians 6:11​

Some post (modern-day) theologians now leave out washing (water baptism), and put justification before sanctitication which seems to be the engrained mindset of Christian theology across denominations.

Have you ever considered that new (born again) Followers of Christ (Galatians 3:28) being quided by HIS Spirit are sanctified before justified? I would like to know your thinking ... not by scholarly commentary teaching as good as it seems., Instead as His Spirit teachs you the significance of being first sanctified (definition as His Spirit teaches you) and then justified (definition as His Spirit teaches you) ..

You're puzzling me with your setting the words of the Spirit in the NT against the Spirit himself.
The words are the Spirit speaking. The Spirit's meaning is the meaning of the words.
We have no authority to transcend the language in which the Spirit gives NT revelation.

The Spirit chose the Greek language for the NT, and the meaning of the Spirit's words is the meaning of the words in the Greek language as well as the usage of the words in the NT.

In the Greek, justification, which is by faith apart from works (Ro 3:28), is a forensic righteousness, a sentence of acquittal of guilt, a declaration by God of right standing with his justice; i.e., "time served," penalty paid, debt cleared (forgiven), credited with/reckoned as righteous, as was Abraham (Ge 17:6, Ro 4:3).

Because it is by faith only, and because it is not actual righteousness of sanctification, (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19), I see justification as simultaneous with salvation because it is also by faith only.

Sanctify is "to set apart," from sin and to God.

Sanctification is actual righteousness, through obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19)

26 I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His TRUE and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught. 28 And now, little children, remain in Christ, so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming.… 1 John 2:26-28

_______________________________________________​

It takes both the word of God and the teaching of the Holy Spirit (anointing) to give us understanding of the truth.
The Holy Spirit being the source of both, the word of God and the anointing will be in agreement.

Is it possible to discuss that according to Galatians 3:28 (born again women are as qualifed as born again men)

Gal 3:28 does not nullify gender, it makes all the born again equal in sonship (Jn 1:12-13).
Nor does it nullify God's creation order, where women are not to have authority over men in the assembly (ekklesia).

that one is sanctified before one is justified and exactly what that means according to how His Spirit has instructed you (1John 2:26-28), and not relying as much on theological commentaries that may differ.

Discussed above.

My understanding comes from the meaning of the Greek words themselves, their usage in the NT and the context of the rest of the NT.
And which is why I think Ro 7 refers to Paul's life in Judaism.

Many may say ... "What difference does it really make?" Isn't that the real question that we should first tackle ... as His Spirit informs us. Can we all agree that His Spirit teaches us Truth so that there is no disunity. Is this even possible in post modern Christianity than 1st Century Cristianity? Should we give it a try or would it deteriorate as bantering. What does it really matter which one comes first or whether it's possible for both to be simultaneousl ???

The meaning of the words "justify" (forensic; righteousness imputed, as with Abraham, Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3) and "sanctify" (actual) as presented in the NT (see above) do not allow for simultaneousness.

It matters because it is the truth.

 

[zoidar]

I think he’s referring to pre-conversion. I think he really wanted to be a good follower of the law, but just couldn’t do it.

He could be referring to the Christian struggle with the flesh, which is the view I used to hold.

Good to be on the same side of things for a change.

 

[Clare73]

John very well could be referring to nominal Christians that may or may not be saved or born again.

John is not lying to those not born again by saying: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1Jn 1:9)
Rather, John is speaking the truth to professing Christians.

Is it possible that even you have been taken in (dupped) by scholarly commentaries of distinquished men over that of the Words of Jesus and those of Paul to the Corinthian church ?

No more so than one claiming Holy Spirit knowledge which differs from the very Scriptures of which the Holy Spirit is the author.

You stand your ground based on the teaching of HIS Spirit and not that of theological man that is debatable If your stance seems in the minority to scholarly theologians you stay on course abiding in HIM.

First, assume others have been duped by scholarly commentaries of distinguished men (it being impossible they could have the truth).
Secondly, maintain that any knowledge of the word of God written is simply that of theological man, and is debatable, never certain.
And then set the Spirit against his own word written, claiming knowledge from the Spirit that is authoritative over his own word written.

Interesting set up. . .clearly establishing one's authority over the word of God written.

Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.” (John 5:14)She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." (John 8:11)​

Paul as a Follower of Christ told the Corinthian Church to stop sinning .

In perfect agreement with John in 1 Jn 1:8-10.

- except MSG translation ...​

There is a MonoSodium Glutamate translation?

awake up, as is right, and sin not; for certain have an ignorance of God; for shame to you I say it. (YLT)​

Sober up morally and stop sinning, for some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame. (NASB)​

Be sensible and stop sinning. You should be embarrassed that some people still don't know about God. (CEV)​

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. (KJV)​

Think carefully about what is right, and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don’t know God at all. (NLT)​

Be sober-minded [be sensible, wake up from your spiritual stupor] as you ought, and stop sinning; for some [of you] have​

no knowledge of God [you are disgracefully ignorant of Him, and ignore His truths]. I say this to your shame. (Amplified Bible)​

Think straight. Awaken to the holiness of life. No more playing fast and loose with resurrection facts. Ignorance of God is a luxury you can’t afford in times like these. Aren’t you embarrassed that you’ve let this kind of thing go on as long as you have? (MSG)​

The MSG could be the favored translation preferred by 22 of those 24 scholars to defend their belief that it's impossibe for a born again new creation (Galatians 3:28) in Christ to stop sinning. They base this on their belief that Paul was "foremost,- chief sinner" after his born again conversion as a new man in Christ. It's like they forgot to read the next chapter - Romans 8.

If you are asserting sinlessness in the born again, see 1 Jn 1:8-10.

One should realize that the position of the majority of today's theologians, evangelists and pastors makes an allowance for sin: So the church pews stay warm. That's also why one seldom hears a church sermon in the 21st Century about hell. Afterall it's becoming more common to hear of scholarly theologians that don't believe in an actual hell. Otherwise, if preached it would make some church goers feel uncomfortable. They might leave and not come back.

 

[AbbaLove]

Does not the NT provide adequate demonstration of why Paul claimed (1Tim 1:13) he was such: blasphemer (Ac 26:11), persecutor (Ac 8:3, Ac 9:1, Ac 22:4-5, Ac 22:19, Ac 26:10) and violent man (Ac 7:57-58) when he was in Judaism?

WE BOTH AGREE - that Paul is referring to "chief" of sinners prior to his born again conversion (Romans 7:25). When i posted that we are considered in the minority was referring to the previous post by bling ...

"This discussion on Romans 7 verses 14-24 are typical of most of the 24 commentaries I read. Two did use the approach that Paul was speaking of his previous life as a non-Christian and gave some (what I call) soft evidence to support the idea. "​

As previously posted by bling who reviewed 24 commenaries on Romans 7, and seemed to conclude that only 2 of the 24 commentaries agreed with our interpretation ... so based on those 24 scholarly commentaries we would be considered in the minority. Contrary would be those posting in this thread that believe Paul is referring to his "present" time as a born again Believer being a "chief" sinner.

That said more than a few times in the Bible and in world history the majority have turned out to be wrong. Sometimes being in the minority is the right place to be; even when the majority of Christians misinterpret Paul's words basing it on the majority of scholarly commentaries and those of even pastors and churchgoers. As if they have more faith in their commentaries as more acceptable to the seeker-sensitive.

The words are the Spirit speaking. The Spirit's meaning is the meaning of the words.

Couldn't agree with you more. However, Christianity seems to be divided when it comes to what is the correct interpretation of Romans 7 (17-25). We may be the only two posting in this thread that are in agreement.

Did you happen to notice the Winner award on your 1st Post in this thread.​

John is not lying to those not born again by saying: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1Jn 1:9)
Rather, John is speaking the truth to professing Christians.

Similarly, as Paul is speaking to those "not born again" in the Corinthian church. Likewise too, Paul is speaking the truth to professing Christians in the Corinthain Church. You are going out of your way to disagree when we agree.

This is also evident in your most recent post yesterday. You seem to be purposely going out of your way to find fault when we basically agree.

 

[AbbaLove]

Good to be on the same side of things for a change.

Yes Indeed ... Welcome

Good to be on the same side of things for a change. Even if 22 out of 24 scholarly commentaries reviewed by bing seem to be on the otherside of Romans 7 (e.g. 17-25).

 

[zoidar]

John is not lying to those not born again by saying: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1Jn 1:9)
Rather, John is speaking the truth to professing Christians.

Why do you think it would be lying if John told those not born again that if they confess their sins, Christ will forgive their sins and purify them from all unrighteousness?

He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion.
— Proverbs 28:13

 

[Clare73]

WE BOTH AGREE - that Paul is referring to "chief" of sinners prior to his born again conversion (Romans 7:25). When i posted that we are considered in the minority was referring to the previous post by bling ...

"This discussion on Romans 7 verses 14-24 are typical of most of the 24 commentaries I read. Two did use the approach that Paul was speaking of his previous life as a non-Christian and gave some (what I call) soft evidence to support the idea. "​

As previously posted by bling who reviewed 24 commenaries on Romans 7, and seemed to conclude that only 2 of the 24 commentaries agreed with our interpretation ... so based on those 24 scholarly commentaries we would be considered in the minority. Contrary would be those posting in this thread that believe Paul is referring to his "present" time as a born again Believer being a "chief" sinner.

That said more than a few times in the Bible and in world history the majority have turned out to be wrong. Sometimes being in the minority is the right place to be; even when the majority of Christians misinterpret Paul's words basing it on the majority of scholarly commentaries and those of even pastors and churchgoers. As if they have more faith in their commentaries as more acceptable to the seeker-sensitive.

Couldn't agree with you more. However, Christianity seems to be divided when it comes to what is the correct interpretation of Romans 7 (17-25). We may be the only two posting in this thread that are in agreement.

Did you happen to notice the Winner award on your 1st Post in this thread.​

Similarly, as Paul is speaking to those "not born again" in the Corinthian church. Likewise too, Paul is speaking the truth to professing Christians in the Corinthain Church. You are going out of your way to disagree when we agree.

This is also evident in your most recent post yesterday. You seem to be purposely going out of your way to find fault when we basically agree.

It seems I have misunderstood you, that you were repeating the arguments of bling and I mistook them for your own.
I was wondering how I had missed it so bad, since we seemed to agree on a lot.

 

[Clare73]

Why do you think it would be lying if John told those not born again that if they confess their sins, Christ will forgive their sins and purify them from all unrighteousness?

He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion.
— Proverbs 28:13

Salvation is by faith rather than confession.

 

[AbbaLove]

No more so than one claiming Holy Spirit knowledge which differs from the very Scriptures of which the Holy Spirit is the author.

That was as a direct hit on the head of the nail if ever there was one. It so sums up the Christian disunity that has been a dilemma / conundrum within Christendom (e.g. Romans 7) for hundreds and hundreds of years right continuing to this very day.

That said, we both agree on our interpretation of Romans 7, and other Words Inspired by the Holy Spirit. Words by pen on parchment or engraved or otherwise recorded for posterity (John 1:1-3, 14) for the world to read (John 3:16).

1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Hm, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.” ... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.​

Maybe, the following will shock some ... Isn't it the arch enemy of Christianity that deserves most or all of the credit for scripture being misinterpreted. Also why there are so many nominal (luke warm) Christians that are easy prey for the "trickster" (destroyer, deceiver, thief and all the evil co-hurts). Nomnal christians that set a poor example. Why there are too many nominal Christians that never mature or worse yet backslide. In other words they have been told that it's impossible to stop sinning. Even though Jesus said, "Stop sinning" and "Go and sin no more". Paul also said as much ("stop sinning"). It's both our belief that these words by Jesus and Paul are inspired by the Holy Spirit. However, you come acrosss as if their words possibly take second place to 1 Jn 1:8-10. Is it possible that the enemy can deceive even "born again" Christians or just maybe they really aren't born again? Which of the following choices do you believe if they were the only two choices ...

1. Mature born again Believers can't be deceived by the enemy.​

2. Nominal born again believers can be deceived by the enemy​

If a born again Christian believes it's impossible to stop sinning is he/she a nominal Christian and as such deceived by the enemy.? However, within Christianity (luke warn to mature). It's possible some actually think i'm the one deceived by the enemy to actually believe that the inspired Words of Jesus ... "Stop your sinning" and "Go and sin no more" or those of Paul "stop sinning" and the admonition by James is just wishful thinking ...

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.​

 

[zoidar]

Salvation is by faith rather than confession.

I was saved through confessing...

 

[Clare73]

That was as a direct hit on the head of the nail if ever there was one. It so sums up the Christian disunity that has been a dilemma / conundrum within Christendom (e.g. Romans 7) for hundreds and hundreds of years right continuing to this very day.
That said, we both agree on our interpretation of Romans 7, and other Words Inspired by the Holy Spirit. Words by pen on parchment or engraved or otherwise recorded for posterity (John 1:1-3, 14) for the world to read (John 3:16).

1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Hm, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.” ... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.​

Maybe, the following will shock some ... Isn't it the arch enemy of Christianity that deserves most or all of the credit for scripture being misinterpreted.

In the end, yes. . .by being the source of so many sects founded on fringe theologies completely contrary to basic NT doctrine, as well as contra-Biblical teaching of larger groups which have grown over time, not the least of which today is dispensationalism, based in personal contra-NT interpretation of unclear prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8).

It has as much to do with times and culture as anything, as it all drifts faster and farther into a contra-Biblical mentality and practice.

Also why there are so many nominal (luke warm) Christians that are easy prey for the "trickster" (destroyer, deceiver, thief and all the evil co-hurts). Nomnal christians that set a poor example. Why there are too many nominal Christians that never mature or worse yet backslide.

Because to keep the pews full, they have to preach a gospel pleasing to their ears.

In other words they have been told that it's impossible to stop sinning. Even though Jesus said, "Stop sinning" and "Go and sin no more".

"Go and sin no more" during Jesus' lifetime meant perfect obedience to the law, which no one could possibly do, and which was the purpose of the law, to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), not to make righteous, for righteousness has always been by faith (Gal 3:11-12), as with Abraham (Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3), apart from works.
The NT reveals that the born again are not sinless (1 Jn 1:8-10).

Paul also said as much ("stop sinning"). It's both our belief that these words by Jesus and Paul are inspired by the Holy Spirit. However, you come acrosss as if their words possibly take second place to 1 Jn 1:8-10. Is it possible that the enemy can deceive even "born again"

Or is it possible that in context those admonitions of Jesus do not mean what you think they mean, as explained above?

Christians or just maybe they really aren't born again? Which of the following choices do you believe if they were the only two choices ...1. Mature born again Believers can't be deceived by the enemy.

2. Nominal born again believers can be deceived by the enemy​

If a born again Christian believes it's impossible to stop sinning is he/she a nominal Christian and as such deceived by the enemy.?

Or does he or she understand Jesus' words under the Old Covenant and law, see no contradiction and simply believe the word of God in 1 Jn 1:8-10?

However, within Christianity (luke warn to mature). It's possible some actually think i'm the one deceived by the enemy to actually believe that the inspired Words of Jesus ... "Stop your sinning" and "Go and sin no more" or those of Paul "stop sinning" and the admonition by James is just wishful thinking ...

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.​

Which is not a promise of not sinning. . .we don't need the devil to sin, for we have a fallen nature.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Well of course Jesus is going to say , "sin no more". What else is he suppose to say? "Just try and cut back on the sinning" ? In Matthew 5:48 it appears Jesus demands perfection. But he also said we should pray, "forgive us our trespasses". Unless your one of those people who think you should never pray the Lord's Prayer more than once in your lifetime.

Two things:
1. The 'present tense' verb in the Greek communicates 'continuous action'. "Do not be sinning." I haven't checked it out thoroughly but I believe that is the sense of most of the places in the NT referring to sin. "Does not continue to sin" or, "...be sinning".
2. In the context it seems he is referring to the particular sin for which she was accused.

 

[FireDragon76]

Matthew 5:48 doesn't mean "perfect" in the Platonic sense, necessarily. The word in Greek word is more like "complete" or "mature".

 

[Rapture Bound]

That was as a direct hit on the head of the nail if ever there was one. It so sums up the Christian disunity that has been a dilemma / conundrum within Christendom (e.g. Romans 7) for hundreds and hundreds of years right continuing to this very day.

That said, we both agree on our interpretation of Romans 7, and other Words Inspired by the Holy Spirit. Words by pen on parchment or engraved or otherwise recorded for posterity (John 1:1-3, 14) for the world to read (John 3:16).

1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Hm, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.” ... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.​

Maybe, the following will shock some ... Isn't it the arch enemy of Christianity that deserves most or all of the credit for scripture being misinterpreted. Also why there are so many nominal (luke warm) Christians that are easy prey for the "trickster" (destroyer, deceiver, thief and all the evil co-hurts). Nomnal christians that set a poor example. Why there are too many nominal Christians that never mature or worse yet backslide. In other words they have been told that it's impossible to stop sinning. Even though Jesus said, "Stop sinning" and "Go and sin no more". Paul also said as much ("stop sinning"). It's both our belief that these words by Jesus and Paul are inspired by the Holy Spirit. However, you come acrosss as if their words possibly take second place to 1 Jn 1:8-10. Is it possible that the enemy can deceive even "born again" Christians or just maybe they really aren't born again? Which of the following choices do you believe if they were the only two choices ...

1. Mature born again Believers can't be deceived by the enemy.​

2. Nominal born again believers can be deceived by the enemy​

If a born again Christian believes it's impossible to stop sinning is he/she a nominal Christian and as such deceived by the enemy.? However, within Christianity (luke warn to mature). It's possible some actually think i'm the one deceived by the enemy to actually believe that the inspired Words of Jesus ... "Stop your sinning" and "Go and sin no more" or those of Paul "stop sinning" and the admonition by James is just wishful thinking ...

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.​

You said " Also why there are so many nominal (luke warm) Christians that are easy prey for the "trickster" (destroyer, deceiver, thief and all the evil co-hurts). Nominal christians that set a poor example. Why there are too many nominal Christians that never mature or worse yet backslide."

Your questions are difficult to respond to because one of the debated items here is how a person defines the term "nominal Christian". Some view the term as applying to merely professing Christians, but not actually regenerated individuals ... while others perceive them as being actually regenerated people. It seems to me that you place them in the latter category ... correct me if I'm mistaken.

If a person perceives/defines a nominal Christian as being merely a professing believer [such as myself], then nominal Christians "set poor examples" and "never mature or worse backslide" due to the fact that they were never in "the starting gate" in the first place [they were never indwelt by the Holy Spirit].

 

[Rapture Bound]

I was saved through confessing...

Wow! - What a huge can of worms that has been opened here! Gonna grab my bag of popcorn and watch how this discussion plays out. It seems to me that once again the central issue here revolves back to the claim of "Sola Fide" ... what does it mean to be justified by grace through faith alone?

Does being justified by grace through faith alone necessarily exclude the components of confession
of sins and repentance of sins? ... and how should those terms be defined?... and what are [if any]
the inter-relationships that exist between the type of faith/believing that saves, repentance of sins,
and confession of sins? ... can you now more clearly see all those worms a crawling out of
that can? -lol.

 

[zoidar]

Wow! - What a huge can of worms that has been opened here! Gonna grab my bag of popcorn and watch how this discussion plays out. It seems to me that once again the central issue here revolves back to the claim of "Sola Fide" ... what does it mean to be justified by grace through faith alone?

Does being justified by grace through faith alone necessarily exclude the components of confession
of sins and repentance of sins? ... and how should those terms be defined?... and what are [if any]
the inter-relationships that exist between the type of faith/believing that saves, repentance of sins,
and confession of sins? ... can you now more clearly see all those worms a crawling out of
that can? -lol.

I'm just sharing how it was for me. I have come to the conclusion it's not the same for everyone. God is not limited to a box. Each Christian has his/her own story.