Is believing/faith a work ?

[Brightfame52]

Previously addressed.

So you understand you are promoting salvation by works as well as law keeping ?

 

[Brightfame52]

I just got through telling you no-one creates anything by what they believe. Do you not have the mental capacity to comprehend?

You can say anything, in final analysis you like most condition Salvation on something man does, like believing, repenting.

 

[Clare73]

So you understand you are promoting salvation by works as well as law keeping ?

Do I?

 

[sawdust]

You can say anything, in final analysis you like most condition Salvation on something man does, like believing, repenting.

No, I have already explained to you it is conditioned on God's determination to save believers. Our believing achieves nothing.

 

[zoidar]

if "faith" was a work,
faith wouldn't be dead without works,"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I Fell away for over almost 7yrs, faith by itself is dead.
Prayer is a work.

What made you come back?

 

[Brightfame52]

No, I have already explained to you it is conditioned on God's determination to save believers. Our believing achieves nothing.

It doesnt matter how you spin it, anybody conditioning salvation on their believing, promotes salvation by works. I have explained that in detail !

 

[Soyeong]

You can say anything, in final analysis you like most condition Salvation on something man does, like believing, repenting.

God is trustworthy, therefore God's law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), to the way to rely on God is by obediently following what He has instructed, while it is not giving credit where it is due to think that we are relying on ourselves by doing what God has instructed. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so our salvation does involve us choosing to follow God's instructions.

 

[Brightfame52]

God is trustworthy, therefore God's law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), to the way to rely on God is by obediently following what He has instructed, while it is not giving credit where it is due to think that we are relying on ourselves by doing what God has instructed. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so our salvation does involve us choosing to follow God's instructions.

Salvation by works. Its an epidemic

 

[Soyeong]

Salvation by works. Its an epidemic

So you deny the truth of Titus 2:11-14?

 

[Brightfame52]

So you deny the truth of Titus 2:11-14?

No. I deny salvation by works

 

[Soyeong]

No. I deny salvation by works

Titus 2:11-14 essentially describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do works, so do you consider this to be salvation by works?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Titus 2:11-14 essentially describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do works, so do you consider this to be salvation by works?

Not to mention Ephesians 2:11 which follows hard on the heels of verses 9 and 10.

 

[sawdust]

It doesnt matter how you spin it, anybody conditioning salvation on their believing, promotes salvation by works. I have explained that in detail !

Are you serious? It is the LORD God Himself who conditions salvation upon believing!

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

ROFL Some people just don't get it.

Have a nice day.

 

[Brightfame52]

Titus 2:11-14 essentially describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do works, so do you consider this to be salvation by works?

I consider whatever a person does as a condition in order to be saved, justified before God, a promotion of salvation by works and a rejection of Grace Salvation. I have no problem with Titus 2:11-14, frankly it hasnt nothing to do with the matter at hand.

 

[Brightfame52]

Are you serious? It is the LORD God Himself who conditions salvation upon believing!

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

ROFL Some people just don't get it.

Have a nice day.

Again, if you condition Salvation on your believing, you promote salvation by works, just kiss salvation by grace good bye

 

[Soyeong]

I consider whatever a person does as a condition in order to be saved, justified before God, a promotion of salvation by works and a rejection of Grace Salvation. I have no problem with Titus 2:11-14, frankly it hasnt nothing to do with the matter at hand.

Generally people consider salvation by works to be speaking about earning our salvation by our works, and while there are many verses that speak against that fundamental misunderstanding of why we should do works, there are many other verses like Titus 2:11-14 that show that our salvation nevertheless still requires us to choose to do works, where our salvation involves God being gracious to us by teaching us to do works.

 

[Brightfame52]

Generally people consider salvation by works to be speaking about earning our salvation by our works, and while there are many verses that speak against that fundamental misunderstanding of why we should do works, there are many other verses like Titus 2:11-14 that show that our salvation nevertheless still requires us to choose to do works, where our salvation involves God being gracious to us by teaching us to do works.

You are teaching salvation by works may God be merciful to you

 

[Soyeong]

You are teaching salvation by works may God be merciful to you

I am not teaching salvation by works, though if that is what you want to label what I am teaching, then there are many places where the Bible teaches what you label salvation by works.

 

[sawdust]

Again, if you condition Salvation on your believing, you promote salvation by works, just kiss salvation by grace good bye

I'm just gonna keep on saying it till it gets through to you.

It is not me who conditions salvation upon belief, it is the Lord. It is He who said repent and believe. (Mark 1:15) It is He who said believe in the Lord Jesus. (Acts 16:31) It is He who told John to tell the people to believe in the One who would follow, namely Jesus. (Acts 19:4)

The reason He can do this is not because He has ordained our believing to be the means of salvation but because His word is the means of salvation and He always keeps His word. The Lord has promised to save believers! Election is what He then decided to do with those believers. There is nowhere in scripture where it says God chose to make people believe. Election is based on the Lord's fore-knowledge. Who does God know? Believers! He doesn't know unbelievers so Election does not involve them.

It does not negate grace for without grace no-one could see what is needed to believe nor have the power to make a decision freely. Grace momentarily keeps the sin nature at bay so the soul is free to decide for itself. Once a person has made their own decision regarding who Christ is (ie. accept or reject the truth presented) then that same grace, working through the word from which faith comes (Romans 10:17), saves that person.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

 

[GenemZ]

Again, if you condition Salvation on your believing, you promote salvation by works, just kiss salvation by grace good bye

You are failing to know what the term "works" was meaning back then. It was a system devised by religious men who prescribed deeds that need to be done as to win the approval of God. That is why its called 'works.' Plural!

But, there is one single work (not works) that we must do to be saved. Just one.
Many Jews had been brainwashed by the religious pharisees into doing a long list of works that a Jew had to do in order to be saved.
That is why Jesus was often times asked by people... .."what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus made it clear that no man is saved by works (plural).

When being asked by his disciples what "works" one needs to do? Jesus responded as follows.

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” ​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28-29​

Believing in Jesus is not 'works.' Its not some religious, man-made devised system to follow to be saved. Its to let you know you are saved when you find yourself believing!

In contrast to works (plural)? Believing in Jesus is a single work. Its the one work of faith that Jesus approves of that enters a man into salvation.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, ​

it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9​

Words confuse us when we blur their meaning because we become emotionally charged over preaching that does not accurately interpret the Word of God.

So be it. So it is!


grace and peace ........................