Is believing/faith a work ?

[Brightfame52]

Then, of course, they are condemned from birth, having never had any light, except that of natural revelation, which is salvifically insufficient.

Not elect, they were born under grace Justified.

 

[Brightfame52]

I think what you are missing is the fact that God has determined to save believers so it is not our believing that saves us but God's will that saves us.

Gods will saved His People before they became believers.

 

[Brightfame52]

The overall definition of work according to the Greek word for work is not the NT usage of "works."
It relates to law-keeping only.




In terms of salvation/justification, works in the NT is physical performance, as in obedience to the law (circumcision, sacrifices, cleansings, food laws, feasts, etc.). It is not the operation of the mind.



That is an operation of sin, not the "works" of the law which the NT relates to salvation/justification.

Sorry the word works isnt restricted to law keeping, it includes it, but the word means:

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
   1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

2041 érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

So therefore believing is a work. And as I stated, if you condition your salvation on your action of believing, you have fallen from grace.

 

[IoanC]

Faith is a virtue. Confessing God before people is a work, for example; another work is almsgiving.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is a virtue. Confessing God before people is a work, for example; another work is almsgiving.

Yes Faith is a virtue, so that compounds it, meaning if we say that God saved us or Justified us based upon our faith, our act of believing, then He saved us or Justified us based on our virtue, thats merit , work salvation, that wont fly with the truth of Grace.

 

[IoanC]

Well, as far as getting saved nothing is needed. God will save us because that is His nature. Grace, virtues, works are for something to do, if we can (they're not requirements).

Yes Faith is a virtue, so that compounds it, meaning if we say that God saved us or Justified us based upon our faith, our act of believing, then He saved us or Justified us based on our virtue, thats merit , work salvation, that wont fly with the truth of Grace.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Not elect, they were born under grace Justified.

Am I correct in thinking that you believe that God has elected some individuals for salvation who will never, in their lifetime on earth, never even hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less place their faith in Him? If so, what purpose does faith in Jesus Christ serve?

 

[Clare73]

Sorry the word works isnt restricted to law keeping, it includes it, but the word means:

< sigh > . . .absurd.

One more time. . .Bible 101:

The use of a word is determined by its context.
The context of "works" in regard to salvation/justification in the NT is law-keeping, particularly circumcision.
"Works" is never used in the NT simply of a disposition; such as, trust, belief, hope, joy, fear, unbelief, hatred, etc.

So therefore believing is a work. And as I stated, if you condition your salvation on your action of believing, you have fallen from grace.

And as the NT shows, you do not understand basic Christian doctrine in the NT usage of works in relation to salvation/justification.

You absurdly set Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28 against themselves, where faith is not works, but is expressly stated as opposition to works.

And you don't even see the absurdity

< sigh >

 

[Clare73]

Not elect,

So Peter and Paul got it wrong about election in 2 Pe 1:10; Ro 9:11, Ro 11:7, Ro 11:28; 2 Ti 5:10, Tit 1:1?

they were born under grace Justified.

Not according to Ro 5:18, where all men are born condemned, and by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Eph 2:3).

So. . .being "non-denominational," are you "self-taught" in Biblical doctrine, or is it that you simply despise it and like to taunt?

 

[Clare73]

Gods will saved His People before they became believers.

Actually, that is: God willed to save his people before they became believers.

And which does not rule out NT apostolic teaching of God using means (second causes) through which to do so. . .second causes such as regeneration, faith, repentance, obedience, prayer, etc.

 

[Clare73]

Yes Faith is a virtue, so that compounds it, meaning if we say that God saved us or Justified us based upon our faith, our act of believing, then He saved us or Justified us based on our virtue, thats merit , work salvation, that wont fly with the truth of Grace.

Just as faith/justification as a NT "work" won't fly with NT apostolic teaching of Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well, as far as getting saved nothing is needed. God will save us because that is His nature. Grace, virtues, works are for something to do, if we can (they're not requirements).

If you wise, dont bring your works into the conversation when it comes to being saved by grace. If you or I say we are saved by God because of anything we did, it defaults to a work merit Salvation and forsakes Grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

bbbbbbb

Am I correct in thinking that you believe that God has elected some individuals for salvation who will never, in their lifetime on earth, never even hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less place their faith in Him?

No you are not correct in that assumption.

 

[Brightfame52]

< sigh > . . .absurd.

One more time. . .Bible 101:

The use of a word is determined by its context.
The context of "works" in regard to salvation/justification in the NT is law-keeping, particularly circumcision.
"Works" is never used in the NT simply of a disposition; such as, trust, belief, hope, joy, fear, unbelief, hatred, etc.

And as the NT shows, you do not understand basic Christian doctrine in the NT usage of works in relation to salvation/justification.

You absurdly set Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28 against themselves, where faith is not works, but is expressly stated as opposition to works.

And you don't even see the absurdity

< sigh >

Its obvious you dont understand the meaning of the word.

 

[Brightfame52]

So Peter and Paul got it wrong about election in 2 Pe 1:10; Ro 9:11, Ro 11:7, Ro 11:28; 2 Ti 5:10, Tit 1:1?



Not according to Ro 5:18, where all men are born condemned, and by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Eph 2:3).

So. . .being "non-denominational," are you "self-taught" in Biblical doctrine, or is it that you simply despise it and like to taunt?

Huh ? No Peter Paul got nothing wrong about election.

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually, that is: God willed to save his people before they became believers.

And which does not rule out NT apostolic teaching of God using means (second causes) through which to do so. . .second causes such as regeneration, faith, repentance, obedience, prayer, etc.

Again Gods will by and through Jesus Christ saved people before they believed. In fact thats why people believe, they were saved from their sins, their unbelief.

 

[bbbbbbb]

bbbbbbb



No you are not correct in that assumption.

Thank you. Then it is safe to say that God has not elected all those who never hear the name of Jesus Christ, is it not?

 

[MikeMu777]

In my opinion, put that way, it's not a very useful question. A better question would be what did Paul mean in Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
One answer to that is Galatians 2:16: "...know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ." It seems pretty certain, I think, we are talking Mosaic law here. Might that be the case whenever Paul is contrasting salvation by "works" with salvation by "faith"? In other words, it's an issue of abiding by the New Covenant vs the Old Covenant.

 

[Brightfame52]

Thank you. Then it is safe to say that God has not elected all those who never hear the name of Jesus Christ, is it not?

The secret things belong to the Lord.

 

[Lost Witness]

if "faith" was a work,
faith wouldn't be dead without works,"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I Fell away for over almost 7yrs, faith by itself is dead.
Prayer is a work.