Is believing/faith a work ?

[Brightfame52]

Your point escapes me. Sorry. I will say this, though: Words, including those in Greek NT always mean what the mean in context and consideration of related texts. Generally, good Greek lexicons will try to capture a full range possible various meanings, but there's no guarantee. That aside, however, I'm simply unsure what you are trying to conclude from your set of definitions.

You can rationalize it all you want, believing is work, an act done by man.

 

[Brightfame52]

I see. Well, if that's what you want to believe ... oh wait .. you don't want to believe that, you have no choice in what you believe. Sorry mate, I forgot for a moment there.

Actually you are right, man doesnt really have a choice if he believes in Christ or not, its Gods choice.

 

[sawdust]

Actually you are right, man doesnt really have a choice if he believes in Christ or not, its Gods choice.

You misread. I said you didn't have a choice (based on your thinking). The rest of us exercised our volition.

God told us to choose. He told us to believe. What our choice had no say in is what the outcome of that choice would be or how and when that choice would be presented.

 

[Clare73]

Works refers to any and all conditions.

Not in NT usage

 

[Clare73]

Believing is a work according to the inspired word ergon !

That is poor/false hermeneutics, where context gives the meaning of the word.

The Biblical measure for meaning of a word in the NT, which is the word's usage.

Take the word "spiritual" as used by Paul.

"Spiritual" can mean non-material, non-physical, non-corporeal (without body).
But that is never Paul's meaning,
Paul always uses "spiritual" to mean of the domain of the Holy Spirit, and never to mean non-material.

You are not at liberty to interpret 2 Co 3:6 - as "the letter kills, but the spirit gives life" as the literal (letter) meaning vs.
a "spiritual" (spirit) meaning.

Likewise with the word "work."
In the context of salvation and justification, Paul's use of "works" means works of the law.


NB: the letter = the written code of the law, which curses/kills those who do not obey it perfectly (Gal 3:10),
whereas, the Spirit = the Holy Spirit, who gives life.

 

[Bobber]

You promoting Salvation by works, by the act of man !

If men don't do what God says believe and receive the grace of God after hearing the gospel they won't be saved. It seems you're saying men don't have to obey God.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not in NT usage

Yes it does. The word covers a broad spectrum.

 

[Brightfame52]

You do not have the Biblical measure for meaning in the NT, which is the word's usage.

Take the word "spiritual" as used by Paul.

"Spiritual" can mean non-material, non-physical, non-corporeal (without body).
But that is never Paul's meaning,
Paul always uses "spiritual" to mean of the domain of the Holy Spirit, and never to mean non-material.

You are not at liberty to interpret 2 Co 3:6 - as "the letter kills, but the spirit gives life" as the literal meaning vs. a "spiritual" meaning.

NB: the letter = the written code of the law, which curses/kills those who do not obey it perfectly (Gal 3:10),
whereas, the Spirit = the Holy Spirit, who gives life.

God inspired the word ergon in the bible. Was Paul inspired by God to use that greek word in the scripture ?

 

[Brightfame52]

If men don't do what God says believe and receive the grace of God after hearing the gospel they won't be saved. It seems you're saying men don't have to obey God.

More salvation by works .

 

[Clare73]

Yes it does. The word covers a broad spectrum.

It's not about the word's spectrum, it's about the word's usage by the writer.

Please show were Paul's usage of "works" covers a broad spectrum.

God inspired the word ergon in the bible. Was Paul inspired by God to use that greek word in the scripture ?

Strawman. . .

It's not about use of the word, it's about the different meanings of the word in the use of the word. . .and you know the difference between usage and meanings. . .or do you?

 

[Brightfame52]

Please show in Paul's usage where "works" is commonly used to cover a broad spectrum.

Im going by the meaning of the word.

 

[Brightfame52]

Strawman. . .

It's not about use of the word, it's about the different meanings of the word. . .and you know the difference between usage and meanings
. . .or do you?

Its very important to consider every word God inspired and not be flippiant as it appears you are being with the word works God inspired. Listen to the wise man Prov 30:5

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him

Jesus says Matt 4:4

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

A servant of God will study the words of God to gain understanding.

Here is what the word ergon means:

érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

 

[sawdust]

More salvation by works .

I see you still don't get it.

Believing does not make something so. If it did? A man could really be a woman. He cannot, no matter how much he may believe he is.

God calls us to respond to His work of salvation which, was accomplished in Christ. God does not call us to respond and then do the responding Himself.

The only thing our believing (or unbelieving) does is reveal who we are.

God has determined to save believers. Therefore, if you want to enter into His salvation, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and the LORD God will do what He promised.

 

[Clare73]

Im going by the meaning of the word.

< sigh >

And you're going by a poor/false hermeneutic.

The word has more than one meaning.
You must demonstrate he is using the one who assert.

 

[Clare73]

Its very important to consider every word God inspired and not be flippiant as it appears you are being with the word works God inspired. Listen to the wise man Prov 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him
Jesus says Matt 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
A servant of God will study the words of God to gain understanding.

Here is what the word ergon means:
érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

Where deed = physical performance.

So the word "deed" is excluded from the definition of faith (disposition), which is not a work.

Not to mention that in salvation and justification, faith is opposed to works in Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28, etc., not included in works.

Your hermeneutic is false.

 

[Brightfame52]

I see you still don't get it.

Believing does not make something so. If it did? A man could really be a woman. He cannot, no matter how much he may believe he is.

God calls us to respond to His work of salvation which, was accomplished in Christ. God does not call us to respond and then do the responding Himself.

The only thing our believing (or unbelieving) does is reveal who we are.

God has determined to save believers. Therefore, if you want to enter into His salvation, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and the LORD God will do what He promised.

I get you promoting salvation by works, by what a person does !

 

[Brightfame52]

< sigh >

The word had more than one meaning.
You just demonstrate he is using the one who assert.

Again, Im going by the meaning of the word.

 

[Brightfame52]

Where deed = physical performance.

And using your meaning, faith (disposition) is not a work.

Believing is a action, a verb . Thats a work For instance Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The word believe here pisteuō is a aorist active imperative verb.

Verb is defined as:

A word or phrase denoting an action. In the Greek language, the verb usually communicates
the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim.
"he vowed to take tougher action against persistent offenders"

Action:

the process or state of acting or of being active:The machine is not in action now.
something done or performed; act; deed.
an act that one consciously wills and that may be characterized by physical or mental activity:

Also notice that Acts 16:31 believe is an imperative which means:

Corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

So thats a law. So if you believe God saved you because of your obedience to a command, thats a principle of law keeping salvation.

 

[Clare73]

Believing is a action, a verb . Thats a work For instance Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The word believe here pisteuō is a aorist active imperative verb.

Verb is defined as:

A word or phrase denoting an action. In the Greek language, the verb usually communicates
the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim.
"he vowed to take tougher action against persistent offenders"

Previously addressed.

 

[sawdust]

I get you promoting salvation by works, by what a person does !

I just got through telling you no-one creates anything by what they believe. Do you not have the mental capacity to comprehend?