The Last Saints

[5thKingdom]

Well you see what you see, but all I can see in the above is more than a little eisegesis, and it naturally ignores the purpose given in Revelation 20 for casting Satan into the pit.

Well... I could not have shown you more clearly that Rev 20 shows TWO DIFFERENT BEASTS.
One WHILE Satan is bound in the Bottomless Pit
One AFTER Satan is loosened from the Pit.


Are you actually telling me YOU CANNOT SEE THIS REALITY?


Rev 20:1-2
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


Rev 20:7-8
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


The thousand years when Satan is bound in the Pit represents the THIRD BEAST or the Christian Kingdom of the Church Age...
this is when the Saints "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" during the AMillennial Kingdom.


AFTER that thousand years, AFTER Satan is loosened is the FOURTH BEAST... also known as (1) the Revelation Beast
and (2) the Great Tribulation and (3) the reign of the Anti-Christ during (4) Satan's "Little Season".


I suspect your PROBLEM is you do not understand the CONTEXT of Scripture is there are FOUR BEASTS

(1) The Pre-Flood Kingdom (Adam to Noah)
(2) The Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
(3) The Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, in 7 verses]
(4) The Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


When you do not understand the CONTEXT of the History of Man...
you will not be able to understand the MEANING of Scriptures because
you will CONFLATE the different "Beasts".


In any case, Rev 20 shows TWO BEASTS... one WHILE Satan is bound and one AFTER he is loosened.
If you cannot "see" that reality then you can never understand Rev 20.

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this age. Satan is called the god of this age in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 where Paul states that "even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing, among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God."

Satan being "bound" in the Bottomless Pit demonstrates a LIMITATION.
It does not mean that Satan is in a PHYSICAL PIT with PHYSICAL CHAINS...
It means Satan cannot prevent all of "His Sheep" from being found and saved
during the Great Commission of the Church Age.


You cannot just ASSUME you can DEFINE the way the Bible uses words...
that is ridiculous. You must HARMONIZE ALL RELATED PASSAGES before
you can PRETEND to understand Biblical Truth.


Ephesians 2 harmonizes with what I explained above.
Your "interpretation" of Ephesians 2 is contradicted by MANY passages.

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world" and the New Testament calls him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience",

Satan is the ruler of this world... during the Church Age.
But he is NOT the ruler of those "Sheep" that "overcome" by the Blood of the Lamb.

Are you telling me you cannot differentiate between those Satan rules and those who "lived and reigned with Christ"
during the Great Commission of the Church Age (the THIRD BEAST on earth)?

You REALLY cannot differentiate between the saved "wheat" in the church and the unsaved "tares" in the church..
and all the lost souls OUTSIDE the church? REALLY

are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).

Sigh...

Once again I will remind you that you cannot understand the MEANING of passages when you cannot discern their CONTEXT.

The False Prophet... (1) the Revelation Beast, (2) Daniel's Fourth Beast, (3) the Great Tribulation, (4) the RULE of the Anti-Christ
(5) DURING SATAN'S "LITTLE SEASON"... these all happen AFTER Satan is "loosened" from the Pit.

The Great Commission of the Church Age, when the Saints "lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"
represents the THIRD BEAST on earth.... this happens WHILE SATAN IS BOUND

Are you telling me that you cannot comprehend the DIFFERENCE between these TWO DIFFERENT BEASTS?
One WHILE Satan is in the Pit and one AFTER Satan is released? Really... you cannot "see" the difference?

The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" ( John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Yes, of course the Saints are warned about the spiritual warfare during the CHRISTIAN KINGDOM of the THIRD BEAST.
However the NATURE of the FOURTH BEAST is that (1) it happens AFTER all the Saints are "sealed" (saved) - Rev 7:1-3
and (2) the Anti-Christ and Satan RULE over the Saints... hint: Great Tribulation.


Dan 7:21-2
I beheld, and the same [Little] Horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High;
and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Dan 7:25
And he [the Little Horn] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and think to change times and laws: and they [the Last Saints] shall be given into his hand [he RULES OVER THEM]
until a time and times and the dividing of time. [3.5 "times" = the duration of the Great Tribulation]


There is also nothing in the entire Bible that points us to two different beasts being spoken of in Revelation 13:1-10; Revelation 19:19-21 and Revelation 20:4.


No... there is nothing in the Bible that teaches two different Beasts in Rev 13 and Rev 19.... I never said there was....
you are constructing a STRAWMAN argument which proves NOTHING.


However, the Bible certainly DOES teach of two different Beasts in Rev 20...
ONE BEAST while Satan is bound in the Pit for one thousand years and the Saints "live and reigned with Christ"... in the THIRD BEAST
ONE BEAST after Satan is loosened from the Pit to RULE over the Saints during the FOURTH BEAST


Go back and read the top of this comment again and again and again
if you (honestly) cannot differentiate between the TWO BEASTS of Rev 20
'


The only way you have managed to do so is by adjusting your thesis to fit in with an Amillennialist understanding of Revelation 20. I've been attempting to follow what you believe regarding the identities of Daniel's four beasts but you lose me completely when you add Amillennialist statements to what you re saying so that your four beasts comply with Amillennialism.


The A-Millennial Kingdom is the thousand years when the Saints "lived and reigned with Christ".
This is NOT a NEW TEACHING. The Protestant Church has understood the Millennial Kingdom = the Church Age
since the Reformation. The Catholic and Orthodox churches have always taught this reality since they began,
because the A-Millennial position is the ONLY position that is Biblically valid.


Jim

 

[Clare73]

Well you see what you see, but all I can see in the above is more than a little eisegesis, and it naturally ignores the purpose given in Revelation 20 for casting Satan into the pit.

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this age. Satan is called the god of this age in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 where Paul states that "even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing, among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God."

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world" and the New Testament calls him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13). The saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" ( John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

In Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind. Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world."

The only reason given for Satan being bound in Revelation 20:1-3 is that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired. This has not been the case during this age, both in the history of the world since the time of the ascension, and according to the teaching contained in the letters of the apostles of Christ (which I've mentioned above).

Satan being bound does not mean he has been completely shut down, but has been limited.
He is able to go about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
I suggest that the deception of the nations referred to above far exceeds the activity of Satan in the world since the ascension.
I suggest that the deception referred to above would not have allowed the gospel to prosper had he been unlimited in his power.
I suggest there is a future deception which will greatly diminish, almost extinguish the gospel.

 

[DavidPT]

Satan being bound does not mean he has been completely shut down, but has been limited.

Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


These locusts meant here, they are obviously in the same pit satan will be in. What does it mean while they are in the pit? That they have not been completely shut down, but that they have only been limited? If that is true, where is there any proof they are still operating in the earth in a limited sense while in the pit? What I take it to mean while they are in the pit since none of them are doing what they do once the pit is opened, is, that it is as if they don't even exist. Clearly, they exist, yet there is no hint of their activity taking place on the earth while they are in the pit. The pit has completely shut them down, not limited them, but has shut them down entirely. And since satan will be in this same pit himself someday, that should mean the pit accomplishes the same thing it does when the locusts are in the pit, that it shuts him down entirely, as if he doesn't even exist at the time.

Anybody comparing things to reality fully know that satan hasn't been shut down yet, nor is it as if he doesn't exist, which then contradicts that he can be in the pit already. If he was already in the same pit the locusts are in, he would be completely shut down as are the locusts while they are in the pit, rather than, as a roaring lion, walking about, seeking whom he may devour. I wonder why whatever is meant by the locusts in the pit, that while they are in the pit, that they are not also active outside of the pit seeking whom they may torment? The pit obviously prevents them from doing that, so why doesn't the pit prevent satan from walking about, seeking whom he may devour?

 

[5thKingdom]

Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


These locusts meant here, they are obviously in the same pit satan will be in. What does it mean while they are in the pit?

You are not reading the text carefully.
The Scripture does NOT say the Locusts came OUT OF THE PIT... you have ADDED that part.


Rev 9:1-2
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace;
and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


Rev 9:3
And there CAME OUT OF THE SMOKE locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


The text does NOT say the Locusts came out of the Pit.
It is SATAN (the Dragon) that comes OUT of the Pit.
The Locusts CAME OUT OF THE SMOKE.


In other words, when Satan is loosened out of the Pit there is great darkness (because of his false doctrines)
the Locust (represent those following Satan and his Anti-Christ during the Great Tribulation of the Fourth Beast, the Revelation Beast)
they come OUT of the darkness of Satan's false doctrines.


Now... WHO do the Locust's represent?
In the immediate context we see the Locusts represent men who APPEAR to be Christians


Rev 9:7-9
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold,
and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many
horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, [like false prophets] and there were stings in their tails:
and their power was to hurt men five months.


The Locusts are the "wheat and tares" in the FOURTH BEAST that follow Satan and his Anti-Christ
(the "Little Horn" and "False Prophet" and "Man of Sin" DURING Satan's "Little Season"...
also shown as (1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (2) the Great Tribulation and
(3) the reign of the Anti-Christ during (4) Satan's "Little Season"
This understanding is confirmed here:


Rev 9:11
And they [the Locusts] had a King over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit,
whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


Now... what was the PURPOSE of the Locusts?
It was to TORTURE those in the churches who were NOT following the Anti-Christ.
During this time men would "seek death" [seek death in Christ] but "death shall flee from them"


Now WHY would men NOT BE SAVED during this time?
Because the FOURTH BEAST, the Revelation Beast, the Great Tribulation COULD NOT BEGIN
until the Last Saint of the Great Commission has been "sealed" (saved). The Great Commission of the Church Age
IS COMPLETED BEFORE Satan is loosened from the Bottomless Pit to RULE during the FOURTH BEAST on earth.


Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


Rev 9:4-6
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; [the elect]
but only those men which have NOT the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them [the Locusts] it was given that they should
not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


You must (1) read Scripture VERY CAREFULLY so that you do not ADD to the text and
(2) you must be able to HARMONIZE your theories with ALL RELATED SCRIPTURES
before you can even pretend to have found Biblical Truth.


You did not do either of these... when you ASSUMED the Locusts came OUT of the Bottomless Pit


Jim

 

[Mark Quayle]

Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


These locusts meant here, they are obviously in the same pit satan will be in. What does it mean while they are in the pit? That they have not been completely shut down, but that they have only been limited? If that is true, where is there any proof they are still operating in the earth in a limited sense while in the pit? What I take it to mean while they are in the pit since none of them are doing what they do once the pit is opened, is, that it is as if they don't even exist. Clearly, they exist, yet there is no hint of their activity taking place on the earth while they are in the pit. The pit has completely shut them down, not limited them, but has shut them down entirely. And since satan will be in this same pit himself someday, that should mean the pit accomplishes the same thing it does when the locusts are in the pit, that it shuts him down entirely, as if he doesn't even exist at the time.

Anybody comparing things to reality fully know that satan hasn't been shut down yet, nor is it as if he doesn't exist, which then contradicts that he can be in the pit already. If he was already in the same pit the locusts are in, he would be completely shut down as are the locusts while they are in the pit, rather than, as a roaring lion, walking about, seeking whom he may devour. I wonder why whatever is meant by the locusts in the pit, that while they are in the pit, that they are not also active outside of the pit seeking whom they may torment? The pit obviously prevents them from doing that, so why doesn't the pit prevent satan from walking about, seeking whom he may devour?

What are the locusts? Can it be that it is just that one nature of some demons to act as locusts do, was curtailed? There are as certainly demons about all through time up til now, as there is Satan about.

 

[5thKingdom]

What are the locusts? Can it be that it is just that one nature of some demons to act as locusts do, was curtailed? There are as certainly demons about all through time up til now, as there is Satan about.

The Locusts are the Last "wheat and tares" (in the church) who follow Satan and the Anti-Christ
during the FOURTH BEAST on earth.... the (1) Revelation Beast during the (2) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Mat 25:12
Then [during the Fourth Beast] shall the [Great Tribulation] Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto [look like] TEN VIRGINS,
which took their lamps [their Gospels], and WENT FORTH [from the Third Beast into the Fourth Beast]
to meet the bridegroom. [Jesus] And five of them were wise [saved wheat in the church],
and five were foolish. [unsaved tares in the church]


The "THEN" is NOT the start of the (2nd) Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
and it is NOT the start of the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, in 7 verses] at Pentecost.
Instead, it is the start of the Fourth Beast AFTER the Great Commission is finished and the Last Saint is "sealed" [Rev 1:1-3]..
it is the start of the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Compare:
In Rev 11:4 we find the Two Witnesses are the church.. represented as "two olive trees" and "two candlesticks"
In Rev 9:5 we find the Locusts "torment" those who do NOT follow Satan and the Anti-Christ after being released from the Pit.
In Rev 11:10 we see the "Locusts" and the "Two Witnesses" TORMENTED those who did NOT go forth into the Fourth Beast.


Rev 11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Rev 9:5
And to them [the Locusts] it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months:
and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.


Rev 11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another;
because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


This is called "Harmony of Scripture"... when ALL RELATED VERSES harmonize.
We cannot even pretend to understand the MEANING of any passage unless/until
we can harmonize ALL RELATED passages.


Jim

 

[DavidPT]

You are not reading the text carefully.
The Scripture does NOT say the Locusts came OUT OF THE PIT... you have ADDED that part.


Rev 9:1-2
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace;
and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


Rev 9:3
And there CAME OUT OF THE SMOKE locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


The text does NOT say the Locusts came out of the Pit.
It is SATAN (the Dragon) that comes OUT of the Pit.
The Locusts CAME OUT OF THE SMOKE.


In other words, when Satan is loosened out of the Pit there is great darkness (because of his false doctrines)
the Locust (represent those following Satan and his Anti-Christ during the Great Tribulation of the Fourth Beast, the Revelation Beast)
they come OUT of the darkness of Satan's false doctrines.


Now... WHO do the Locust's represent?
In the immediate context we see the Locusts represent men who APPEAR to be Christians


Rev 9:7-9
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold,
and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many
horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, [like false prophets] and there were stings in their tails:
and their power was to hurt men five months.


The Locusts are the "wheat and tares" in the FOURTH BEAST that follow Satan and his Anti-Christ
(the "Little Horn" and "False Prophet" and "Man of Sin" DURING Satan's "Little Season"...
also shown as (1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (2) the Great Tribulation and
(3) the reign of the Anti-Christ during (4) Satan's "Little Season"
This understanding is confirmed here:


Rev 9:11
And they [the Locusts] had a King over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit,
whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


Now... what was the PURPOSE of the Locusts?
It was to TORTURE those in the churches who were NOT following the Anti-Christ.
During this time men would "seek death" [seek death in Christ] but "death shall flee from them"


Now WHY would men NOT BE SAVED during this time?
Because the FOURTH BEAST, the Revelation Beast, the Great Tribulation COULD NOT BEGIN
until the Last Saint of the Great Commission has been "sealed" (saved). The Great Commission of the Church Age
IS COMPLETED BEFORE Satan is loosened from the Bottomless Pit to RULE during the FOURTH BEAST on earth.


Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


Rev 9:4-6
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; [the elect]
but only those men which have NOT the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them [the Locusts] it was given that they should
not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


You must (1) read Scripture VERY CAREFULLY so that you do not ADD to the text and
(2) you must be able to HARMONIZE your theories with ALL RELATED SCRIPTURES
before you can even pretend to have found Biblical Truth.


You did not do either of these... when you ASSUMED the Locusts came OUT of the Bottomless Pit


Jim

Revelation 9:1 ¶And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


The way I'm basically reading it is like such. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth

This means whatever is meant by this smoke, the smoke is coming from within the pit, thus the reason the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit once the pit is opened. Which then means if the smoke is being let out of the pit so are the locusts, otherwise one needs to explain how they come out of the smoke. Should we assume, initially they weren't in the smoke, then when they see the smoke, they are attracted to the smoke, thus go into the smoke in order to then be seen coming out of the smoke?

Even if none of this is meaning in a literal sense, it still has to make some kind of sense. And I don't see it making sense that something would initially be outside of this smoke, then see this smoke, then be attracted to this smoke, then head into this smoke in order to then be seen coming out of this smoke. When it makes better sense that they simply emerge out of the smoke coming up out of the pit because they too are coming out of the pit with the smoke.

 

[Zao is life]

The Locusts are the Last "wheat and tares" (in the church) who follow Satan and the Anti-Christ
during the FOURTH BEAST on earth.... the (1) Revelation Beast during the (2) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Mat 25:12
Then [during the Fourth Beast] shall the [Great Tribulation] Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto [look like] TEN VIRGINS,
which took their lamps [their Gospels], and WENT FORTH [from the Third Beast into the Fourth Beast]
to meet the bridegroom. [Jesus] And five of them were wise [saved wheat in the church],
and five were foolish. [unsaved tares in the church]


The "THEN" is NOT the start of the (2nd) Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
and it is NOT the start of the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, in 7 verses] at Pentecost.
Instead, it is the start of the Fourth Beast AFTER the Great Commission is finished and the Last Saint is "sealed" [Rev 1:1-3]..
it is the start of the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]


Compare:
In Rev 11:4 we find the Two Witnesses are the church.. represented as "two olive trees" and "two candlesticks"
In Rev 9:5 we find the Locusts "torment" those who do NOT follow Satan and the Anti-Christ after being released from the Pit.
In Rev 11:10 we see the "Locusts" and the "Two Witnesses" TORMENTED those who did NOT go forth into the Fourth Beast.


Rev 11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Rev 9:5
And to them [the Locusts] it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months:
and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.


Rev 11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another;
because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


This is called "Harmony of Scripture"... when ALL RELATED VERSES harmonize.
We cannot even pretend to understand the MEANING of any passage unless/until
we can harmonize ALL RELATED passages.


Jim

You keep saying these locusts torment "those in the church who do not follow the beast/antichrist/whatever you want to call him", and you keep saying this even though the text says the locusts are only able to torment those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. It says nothing more about who those being tormented are, except that they are not the saints.

 

[Zao is life]

You are not reading the text carefully.
The Scripture does NOT say the Locusts came OUT OF THE PIT... you have ADDED that part.

You are also not reading the text carefully. The text does not say that those who are being tormented are those in the church who are not sealed with the seal of God on their foreheads but who nevertheless do not worship the beast either. That's your addition.

Besides that, the locusts come out of the smoke that comes out of the pit when the pit has been opened. This is the house that Jack built, and it's as easy to understand as this is the house that Jack built. The locusts as @DavidPT correctly points out are totally, 100% unable to operate now, until the pit has been opened. It's as though they do not exist.

The same goes for when Satan is cast into the pit. He will be completely prevented from any activity. It will be as though he does not exist. David is correct about that too.

 

[5thKingdom]

You are also not reading the text carefully. The text does not say that those who are being tormented are those in the church who are not sealed with the seal of God on their foreheads but who nevertheless do not worship the beast either. That's your addition.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what the Bible teaches
However you must compare several passages
before you can find "harmony of Scripture"

Besides that, the locusts come out of the smoke that comes out of the pit when the pit has been opened. This is the house that Jack built, and it's as easy to understand as this is the house that Jack built. The locusts as @DavidPT correctly points out are totally, 100% unable to operate now, until the pit has been opened. It's as though they do not exist.

I said the locusts do NOT come out of the Pit
and that is EXACTLY what the text says.

As I explained before:
The SMOKE coming out of the Pit
represents Satan being released from the Pit
and the DECEPTION (smoke) he and the Anti-Christ teach
leading the Last "wheat and tares" (the Locusts) to preach a Gospel
that "torments" those in the church.

If you want... we can go through this Scripture by Scripture.
Do not expect to understand the Truth until you do...
and simply declaring "this is the house"
means LESS than nothing.

You are simply declaring your "feelings"...
you present no SCRIPTURE to back your comments/feelings

The same goes for when Satan is cast into the pit. He will be completely prevented from any activity. It will be as though he does not exist. David is correct about that too.

That is all your imagination.
Satan is "bound" in the Pit during the Church Age
meaning he is LIMITED... he cannot prevent the Great Commission
from saving all of "His Sheep". Christian Saints still experience spiritual warfare..
the Bible is clear about that.


AFTER the Great Commission of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom is finished....
THEN the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way" [2Thess] and Satan is released from the Pit
to RULE during the FOURTH BEAST/KINGDOM on earth... commonly known as the Revelation Beast or Great Tribulation.


Notice in Rev 7:1-3 it teaches the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast
CAN NOT BEGIN until the Last Saint is "sealed" (saved)


We can go through this Scripture by Scripture
but please do not pretend that you DENYING something
actually NEGATES anything.... it does not.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

You keep saying these locusts torment "those in the church who do not follow the beast/antichrist/whatever you want to call him", and you keep saying this even though the text says the locusts are only able to torment those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. It says nothing more about who those being tormented are, except that they are not the saints.

Wrong... the Bible does show WHO is tormented...
but you must be able to harmonize all related passages
before you can hope to have found Truth

Rev 11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another;
because these two prophets [the Last Saints of the Fourth Beast] TORMENTED THEM that dwelt on the earth.

If you want to find Biblical Truth
you must FIRST be able to harmonize ALL RELATED passages.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

Revelation 9:1 ¶And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


The way I'm basically reading it is like such. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth

Yes, the locusts come OUT of the Smoke
The Smoke represents the false doctrines taught by Satan and his Anti-Christ
during Satan's "Little Season"... also shown as the Great Tribulation and Revelation Beast
this is the FOURTH Kingdom/Beast on the earth

This means whatever is meant by this smoke, the smoke is coming from within the pit,

No... you are ADDING to the text.
The Smoke comes OUT of the Pit.. what does the smoke represent?

If you do not understand WHAT the smoke represents you cannot hope to find Truth
You must be able to DEFINE the words you use before you can offer an "informed opinion"


.

 

[5thKingdom]

What are the locusts? Can it be that it is just that one nature of some demons to act as locusts do, was curtailed? There are as certainly demons about all through time up til now, as there is Satan about.

The locusts represent the Last Saints...
those who are RULED by Satan and his Anti-Christ
during Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Pit
the period also shown as (1) the Fourth Beast and (2) the Revelation Beast
and (3) the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

When Satan is released from the Bottomless Pit,
AFTER the Great Commission of the Church Age is finished
and all the Saints are "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]

THEN (after Satan is released for his "Little Season")
]the "smoke" represents the false doctrines taught by the Anti-Christ
and, therefore, taught by the Last Saints as they are RULED
during the Fourth Beast on earth

.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The locusts represent the Last Saints...
those who are RULED by Satan and his Anti-Christ
during Satan's "Little Season" after being released from the Pit
the period also shown as (1) the Fourth Beast and (2) the Revelation Beast
and (3) the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

When Satan is released from the Bottomless Pit,
AFTER the Great Commission of the Church Age is finished
and all the Saints are "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]

THEN (after Satan is released for his "Little Season")
]the "smoke" represents the false doctrines taught by the Anti-Christ
and, therefore, taught by the Last Saints as they are RULED
during the Fourth Beast on earth

.

By your sayso, I suppose. The scripture you quote does not teach that the locusts represent the Last Saints. That is your take. Just saying...

 

[5thKingdom]

By your sayso, I suppose. The scripture you quote does not teach that the locusts represent the Last Saints. That is your take. Just saying...

To find Biblical Truth you must HARMONIZE ALL RELATED Scripture...
do not expect to find Truth about the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation
by looking at ONE passage.

I can show you WHERE the Bible teaches the Locusts represent the Last Saints...
would you like to learn?

BTW... the fact that the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation is the SUBJECT of this discussion...
it is self evident the PEOPLE living at the time include the Last Saints.
That is not only Biblical... it is also logical.

Do you think there are PEOPLE living on earth
AFTER the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation?
Do you imagine Saints on earth AFTER the Great Tribulation Saints?

What passage of Scripture (do you think) teaches such a thing?

.

 

[Mark Quayle]

To find Biblical Truth you must HARMONIZE ALL RELATED Scripture...
do not expect to find Truth about the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation
by looking at ONE passage.

I can show you WHERE the Bible teaches the Locusts represent the Last Saints...
would you like to learn?

BTW... the fact that the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation is the SUBJECT of this discussion...
it is self evident the PEOPLE living at the time include the Last Saints.
That is not only Biblical... it is also logical.

Do you think there are PEOPLE living on earth
AFTER the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation?
Do you imagine Saints on earth AFTER the Great Tribulation Saints?

What passage of Scripture (do you think) teaches such a thing?

.

What I think is that I have a whole lot more to learn than I'm willing to accept from anyone who thinks they've got it figured out, concerning prophecy. But what I hear you saying is already self-contradictory, and I have no interest therefore to pursue it further. Thanks for the offer, though.

 

[5thKingdom]

What I think is that I have a whole lot more to learn than I'm willing to accept from anyone who thinks they've got it figured out, concerning prophecy.

I wonder if you ACCEPT or REJECT what the Bible promises in Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10...
that the Truth about the Daniel's Fourth Beast (aka Revelation Beast and Great Tribulation)
would remain "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand"
during the "Time-of-the-End".

Those are not MY WORDS... that is Scripture.
Do you accept or reject the Word of God in those verses?

But what I hear you saying is already self-contradictory, and I have no interest therefore to pursue it further. Thanks for the offer, though.

No... I have never contradicted myself.
Instead, you did not understand something said... and you assumed it was my fault.

You cannot find ONE TIME when I contradicted something I taught.
I have been doing this ("Time-of-the-End" prophecy) for about 12 years. I have studied prophecy for over 50 years.
This is not NEW to me. The "Time-of-the-End" began in 2011. That is also when the "Season and Time" began.

Jim

 

[BillCody]

You cannot find ONE TIME when I contradicted something I taught.
I have been doing this ("Time-of-the-End" prophecy) for about 12 years. I have studied prophecy for over 50 years.
This is not NEW to me. The "Time-of-the-End" began in 2011. That is also when the "Season and Time" began.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

James 3:1-2
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I wonder if you ACCEPT or REJECT what the Bible promises in Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10...
that the Truth about the Daniel's Fourth Beast (aka Revelation Beast and Great Tribulation)
would remain "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand"
during the "Time-of-the-End".

Those are not MY WORDS... that is Scripture.
Do you accept or reject the Word of God in those verses?

I would like to think I always accept the Word of God —at least, once I realize it is the Word of God. I don't always accept any one person's use of the Word of God. Particularly when they think in some grandiose manner that THEY are the fulfillment of it.

No... I have never contradicted myself.
Instead, you did not understand something said... and you assumed it was my fault.

You cannot find ONE TIME when I contradicted something I taught.
I have been doing this ("Time-of-the-End" prophecy) for about 12 years. I have studied prophecy for over 50 years.
This is not NEW to me. The "Time-of-the-End" began in 2011. That is also when the "Season and Time" began.

You have never contradicted yourself? Aren't but so many people that sure of themselves!

I have no interest in speaking further with you. Have a great day.

 

[5thKingdom]

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

James 3:1-2
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

5thKingdom said:
You cannot find ONE TIME when I contradicted something I taught.
I have been doing this ("Time-of-the-End" prophecy) for about 12 years. I have studied prophecy for over 50 years.
This is not NEW to me. The "Time-of-the-End" began in 2011. That is also when the "Season and Time" began.


Please explain to me HOW the passages you cited apply to something I said?
It means nothing to cite unrelated passages.

BTW... the passages you cited...
do those apply to people living in the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13, in 7 verses]
OR do they apply to people living in the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
If you are quoting passages I ASSUME you understand the CONTEXT of those passages?

Jim