Jesus prophesied that we would be keeping the Sabbath until He returns in Matthew 24

[SabbathBlessings]

Initially it was because I care about you. Now it is because you are being persistent in spreading this that even your own church would censor. Because we do not keep anything holy to enter into the rest which is of Christ that is called the Gospel in Hebrews 4

Hebrews 4 is a call to the Sabbath rest (Sabbath-keeping) as shown in Hebrews 4:4, Hebrews 4:9-10 and the call of disobedience is to the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:6 which is a reference to Ezekiel 20:13, Ezekiel 20:21.

I do not know of any SDA church or conference who thinks we are to be disobedient to the Sabbath rest (commandment) which we do not keep to be saved, we keep through love and divine worship of our Savior on His blessed and holy day. God does not force us to keep the Sabbath rest and to receive His rest we must cease our works like He does Hebrews 4:10 on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4, Genesis 2:1-3 which is the Sabbath according to our Lord and Savior Exodus 20:10

It is an everlasting gospel that leads us right to the Sabbath commandment almost word for word:

Revelation 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” Exodus 20:11

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all.

If God’s rest leads to obedience to God, than it is saying God is falling short on His part because there are lots of people who are disobeying the commandments of God. We rest in God through our obedience Psalms 119:165 which only comes by love and faith.

I leave with a few SDA quotes:

"Obedience, aka doing our duty, is the foundation of our life in Christ. We haven’t even started to build a Christian life until we’re settled on that point."

"Everyone is demanding their rights and rewards, but they dodge their responsibilities of obedience to divine commands."

"If your love is to be acceptable to God, if it is to be adequate in influencing your life, then in total response you must give heart, soul, strength, and mind to God. Partial devotion of any of your faculties will leave you with a divided life. It will leave you stricken with a spiritual schism which cripples your Christianity and robs the world of your influence."

God bless him, I am going to sign out of this thread.

 

[eleos1954]

Okay... so the law is the ten commandments plus all the teachings of Jesus. Thank you for your answers.

Everything Jesus taught reverts back to the 10 ... one way or another (in principle) .... He provided (taught) the in depth meaning of the 10.

 

[Clare73]

No you are in error thinking grace and faith replaces the law.

Are you sure about that?

It's not grace and faith which has replaced the law.
It is loving which has fulfilled the law (Romans 13:8), "and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:9).

Time to make the bold leap from the obsolete OT covenant (Hebrews 8:13) of law-keeping to the new NT covenant of loving (Romans 13:10).

 

[eleos1954]

Are you sure about that?

It's not grace and faith which has replaced the law.
It is loving which has fulfilled the law (Romans 13:8), "and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:9).

Time to make the bold leap from the obsolete OT covenant (Hebrews 8:13) of law-keeping to the new NT covenant of loving (Romans 13:10).

The 10 ARE laws that produce love .... and if we love then the Law is fulfilled.

Romans 13:8–10: “Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, ‘you shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,’ and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”

Galatians 5:13–18: “For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. . . . If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.”

The Law is alive and well and when kept fulfills it.

The OT covenant is not obsolete ... love has never been obsolete ... nor will it ever be obsolete.

 

[Clare73]

Everything Jesus taught reverts back to the 10 ... one way or another (in principle) .... He provided (taught) the in depth meaning of the 10.

Are you sure about that?

Where do we find John 3:18 in the 10?
Where do we find John 6:53-57 in the 10?
Where do we find Mark 7:17-19 in the 10? (Acts 10:15)

 

[Clare73]

The 10 ARE laws that produce love .... and if we love then the Law is fulfilled.

Where in Scripture do we find that law produces love?

That is backwards, contra-reality.
It is loving that produces faithfulness.

 

[Clare73]

What Faith?

Faith in Jesus Christ and his atoning work for the forgiveness of sin, which is salvation from the wrath of God (Romans 5:9).

 

[Leaf473]

Everything Jesus taught reverts back to the 10 ... one way or another (in principle) .... He provided (taught) the in depth meaning of the 10.

Okay... How do you see this relating to the 10?

Matthew 8
Jesus said to him, “See that you tell nobody; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”

 

[eleos1954]

Are you sure about that?

Where do we find John 3:18 in the 10?
Where do we find John 6:53-57 in the 10?
Where do we find Mark 7:17-19 in the 10? (Acts 10:15)

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us.

Our love for one another is shown in commands 6-10

Romans 13:10

…9The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (fulfillment ... not the abolishment of it)

Mark 7:17-19

17When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18And He said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.) 20And He was saying, “That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23“All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”

Sound familar?

Jesus summarized the 10 Commandments into two great commandments. The first and great commandment is, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” (Matthew 22:37).

“And,” Jesus said, “the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’” (verse 39).

Love of God is the underlying reason we are to keep the 10 Commandments. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). What commandments do you think are being referred to here?

Noting the same concept, the apostle John later wrote: “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).

and in Revelation we are told there will be a people who will keep the commandments ... the commandments that produce love that are a summary of the 10.

Jesus satisfies our hunger and thirst for righteousness.

The work of God is to help us overcome sin ... and sin is transgression of the law.

Like I said ... the law leads us to Christ (showing our need for a savior) and the Holy Spirit calls us to repentance (turning from sin - transgression of the law) changing our thinking which changes our doing ... His work ... not ours.

Galatians 3:24 NASB1995
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

It is God who works in the heart to justify us.

Nothing wrong with the law .... the wrong is thinking we can overcome sin (transgression of the law) without Jesus.

Praise God for working in our hearts helping us to overcome sin (transgression of the law)

I did not say that every single verse relates to the 10 .... the overall PRINCIPLES of Jesus' teachings are based on them.

Good grief.

 

[eleos1954]

Okay... How do you see this relating to the 10?

Matthew 8
Jesus said to him, “See that you tell nobody; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”

What were the overall principles taught in Matthew 8?

I did not say that every single verse specifically relates to the 10 .... the PRINCIPLES of Jesus' teachings overall are based on them.

 

[Leaf473]

What were the overall principles taught in Matthew 8?

I did not say that every single verse specifically relates to the 10 .... the PRINCIPLES of Jesus' teachings overall are based on them.

Well... Jesus's overall teaching principles are based on the law and the prophets. He came to fulfill them.

Jesus teaching being based on the law and the prophets doesn't mean that we keep every single law or that every prophecy is about us.

Another teaching of Jesus from Matthew 23 this time
The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat. 3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do.

I believe the scribes and Pharisees back then taught people not to travel on the Sabbath. Is that something that applies to us today, in your view?

 

[Clare73]

If the book of the law was nailed to the cross, then the ten commandments were nailed to the cross;

What was cancelled and nailed to the cross was the curse of the law that was against them and stood opposed to (condemned) them (Colossians 2:14), not the Book of the Law (Joshua 1:8).

for they were all in that book, word for word; and the doing away of the book did them away also. Whoever makes such an assertion, has certainly been very heedless in his reading of the book.
It is not true.

The ten commandments nowhere appear in the books of Moses in legislative form; that is, in a form to drive their authority in any degree from the book. They are but once recorded in set form, as God spoke them, and that is in Exodus 20:3-17. And this is historical and not legislative; it is simply a narrative that God did come down and give that law from Sinai with his own voice; but the law derived no authority from this narrative.

The law was spoken and authoritative before the narrative was ever written.

Its authority rested upon the fact that it had been spoken by God, and written with his finger upon the tables of stone, and deposited in the holiest spot of the most holy place of the sanctuary.

The law's authority derived from God's own word at Sinai, not from being in the Ark.
And actually, the Book of the Law (Deuteronomy 28:61), containing the Decalogue, was not in the Ark, it was beside the Ark (Deuteronomy 31:26).
If being in the Ark was required for its authority, then it had no authority because it was not in the Ark.

But the laws God spoke to Moses in Exodus 20:22-23:19, as well as the instructions for the Tabernacle (Exodus 25-31), enjoyed as much authority from God as did the laws spoken on Sinai.(Exodus 20:1-17), because they likewise were spoken by God himself.
There is no Scriptural basis for a difference in the authority of the laws God spoke to Moses, including the instructions for the tabernacle (Exodus 25-31). That is a contrived doctrine of man, for the sake of one's theology.

And though every copy of the book containing this narrative had been destroyed and put out of existence, it would not have affected in the least the fact of the promulgation of that law, nor have touched the tables containing the legislative transcript of the same. What is here stated will apply also to Moses’ rehearsal and paraphrase of the law forty years later, as recorded in Deuteronomy 5:6-21.

God's authority applies to everything Moses spoke to the people, from Exodus through Deuteronomy.
The authority of their mediator, Moses, was the authority of God, just as it was with the NT mediator, Jesus of Nazareth.

With the law of Moses (those written by Moses) it was not so. That was promulgated through the book, and its authority was derived from that record.

The law of Moses was promulgated by his declaration of it to the people (Deuteronomy 4:5), the law's authority was Moses, not a written document.
The written document was simply a preservation of that law in a record, the authority of which was Moses' declaration from God.

It had no position elsewhere, and when that handwriting was nailed to the cross, nothing of it longer remained.

The law was not nailed to the cross; the curse of the law, which condemned us, was nailed to the cross, and our sin thereby forgiven through faith.
The cross did not change the law, the cross changed only its penalty (death), by nailing it to the cross.

This is clearly shown by what law was placed IN the ark (tablets of stone - never changing) and which law was placed OUTSIDE the ark. That which Moses wrote with His own handwriting (done away with) and it was those laws that were nailed to the cross.

False construct of man. . .

The cross did not do away with the law, faith did away with the law (Galatians 3:23-25), by loving being its fulfillment (Romans 13:8-10).
The written code nailed to the cross was not the law, but the curse of the law that stood against us and condemned us (Colossians 2:14).

 

[BobRyan]

And actually, the Book of the Law (Deuteronomy 28:61), containing the Decalogue, was not in the Ark, it was beside the Ark (Deuteronomy 31:26).

The TEN Commandments spoken by God to the entire nation and written by God's own hand were inside the ark -

Heb 9:3 Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant;

 

[BobRyan]

There is no Scriptural basis for a difference in the authority of the laws God spoke to Moses, including the instructions for the tabernacle (Exodus 25-31). That is a contrived doctrine of man, for the sake of one's theology.

Until you read scriptures such as

• 1 Cor 7:19 where circumcision does not matter "but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
  
• Heb 10:4-12 where we see that all animal sacrifices and offerings were "taken away"
• Heb 7 - where we see that the laws regarding the Levitical priesthood ended.

God's authority applies to everything Moses spoke to the people, from Exodus through Deuteronomy.

And in fact ALL SCRIPTURE - 2 Tim 3:16 derives it's authority from God - the author of it - and so only He can end it.

Is 66:23 in the NEW Earth -- "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

Regarding the TEN "He who breaks one breaks them ALL" James 2.

Col 2 is nailing or "certificate of debt" -- our debt, the second death torment and suffering debt of Rev 20 -- to the cross. And is available to all those who accept the Gospel. At which point the LAW is written on the heart Jer 31:31-34 and faith ESTABLISHES the Law" Rom 3:31

 

[Blade]

Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath So the answer is right there. Does it matter at all that when Christ said that they were still living by the law under the law? Was not talking to the dogs (none Jewish) nor any Christian or Church. So if this is something you truly believe He was saying then you best do it. What others do.. between them and God/Christ.

 

[Clare73]

The TEN Commandments spoken by God to the entire nation and written by God's own hand were inside the ark -

Heb 9:3 Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant;

Agreed. . .the Book of the Law was not (Deuteronomy 31:26).

 

[BobRyan]

Agreed. . .the Book of the Law was not (Deuteronomy 31:26).

I am good with that. I never said that if something is not inside the ark it can be deleted.

 

[Clare73]

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us.

That command was given after the Law.

 

[eleos1954]

Well... Jesus's overall teaching principles are based on the law and the prophets. He came to fulfill them.

Jesus teaching being based on the law and the prophets doesn't mean that we keep every single law or that every prophecy is about us.

Another teaching of Jesus from Matthew 23 this time
The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat. 3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do.

I believe the scribes and Pharisees back then taught people not to travel on the Sabbath. Is that something that applies to us today, in your view?

Traveling and activity on the Sabbath that is attached to the work of God is allowed. It is lawful to do good. Our example is Jesus ... He taught on the Sabbath, He healed on the Sabbath, He rested on the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:11-12

He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

They had added teachings of their own about Sabbath keeping ... and Jesus took issue with it and brought it to their attention. He also pointed out their hypocrisy ... teaching one thing and then not doing it themselves.

Well... Jesus's overall teaching principles are based on the law and the prophets. He came to fulfill them.

Matthew 5:17

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them (fill them fully - not do away with them)

fulfill

By fulfilling the law Jesus showed us how to keep the law fully. To fill means to make full, and Jesus showed us how to keep the fullness of the law by fulfilling the law

We see this truth as it is in Jesus in Matthew 3:15 Jesus tells John to baptize him to fulfill all righteousness. Once Jesus fulfilled the rite of baptism did he then abolish it? No. In Matthew 28:19 Jesus told his disciples to go baptize. By fulfilling baptism Jesus gave us all an example to continue following instead of discarding.

Likewise by fulfilling the law Jesus gave us an example to continue in the law instead of discarding the law. We see that truth as it is in Jesus, that while no one was ever saved or will ever be saved by the law in either the Old or New Testament, the law is still our guide. Jesus shows us how to fulfill the law by being our example. He tells us, If you love me, Keep my commandments.” John 14;15.

18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. What Law?

9 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

The cerimonial laws of the sanctuary system were done away with ... no longer needed because Jesus was the final sacrifice for all for all time and became our High Priest .... we know this to be true .... because the earthly sanctuary system was in fact destroyed as prophesied ... and we see the remnants of that destruction today.

Matthew 24

1As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings. 2“ Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

 

[Leaf473]

Traveling and activity on the Sabbath that is attached to the work of God is allowed. It is lawful to do good. Our example is Jesus ... He taught on the Sabbath, He healed on the Sabbath, He rested on the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:11-12

He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

They had added teachings of their own about Sabbath keeping ... and Jesus took issue with it and brought it to their attention. He also pointed out their hypocrisy ... teaching one thing and then not doing it themselves.



Matthew 5:17

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them (fill them fully - not do away with them)

fulfill

By fulfilling the law Jesus showed us how to keep the law fully. To fill means to make full, and Jesus showed us how to keep the fullness of the law by fulfilling the law

We see this truth as it is in Jesus in Matthew 3:15 Jesus tells John to baptize him to fulfill all righteousness. Once Jesus fulfilled the rite of baptism did he then abolish it? No. In Matthew 28:19 Jesus told his disciples to go baptize. By fulfilling baptism Jesus gave us all an example to continue following instead of discarding.

Likewise by fulfilling the law Jesus gave us an example to continue in the law instead of discarding the law. We see that truth as it is in Jesus, that while no one was ever saved or will ever be saved by the law in either the Old or New Testament, the law is still our guide. Jesus shows us how to fulfill the law by being our example. He tells us, If you love me, Keep my commandments.” John 14;15.

18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. What Law?

9 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

The cerimonial laws of the sanctuary system were done away with ... no longer needed because Jesus was the final sacrifice for all for all time and became our High Priest .... we know this to be true .... because the earthly sanctuary system was in fact destroyed as prophesied ... and we see the remnants of that destruction today.

Matthew 24

1As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings. 2“ Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

If the law is the ten commandments and all the teachings of Jesus,

And if Jesus taught that we are to listen to the scribes and the Pharisees,

And if the scribes and the Pharisees limited the amount of travel on the Sabbath,

Then a limited amount of travel on the Sabbath is the law.

Do you believe you have found some other passages that say something different? Jesus said it was the scribes and the Pharisees that sat in the seat of Moses.

My point is that not everything that Jesus said applies to us today.

Great discussion, by the way!