Ohio governor signs bill allowing armed school employees

[iluvatar5150]

Why bother with the paintball games at all? Just issue new teachers a PS5 and a copy of Call of Duty to play with over the summer...

One set of toys is just as good as another for training purposes, right?

I think I have a Nintendo Zapper laying around here somewhere....

 

[TLK Valentine]

I think I have a Nintendo Zapper laying around here somewhere....

Shhh... don't blow this for me; I'm trying to get a free PS5 from the GOP...

 

[Homeowner]

The canned food item will give the students a sense of empowerment to protect themselves and will make them feel secure in case an intruder enters the classroom."

Good grief. The most, literally the most astounding thing about this is that the guy gets paid for telling that carrying a can of pea soup empowers you to overcome active shooter.

Are they going to establish NCGA (National Canned Goods Association) to ensure safety in school rooms and why not everywhere else too. Imagine how safe the clubs and concerts would be with everyone carrying food tins. Gang prestige could be demonstrated by what canned items they carried around.
Tin throwing ranges, competitions, more aerodynamical models, density calculations oh my the possibilities.

It is like the movie idiocracy but happening right now.

 

[Desk trauma]

People keep mocking this statement but so far no one has had the guts to point out anything that I stated in that post that is incorrect.

The assertion that you have any experience with fire fights is incorrect. You were involved with a sport that uses similar tactics, not actual fire fights, and claiming that as experience is worthy of derision.

 

[Homeowner]

The assertion that you have any experience with fire fights is incorrect. You were involved with a sport that uses similar tactics, not actual fire fights, and claiming that as experience is worthy of derision.

If only experience that counts is a real firefight - preferably multiple ones to get reliable results - then that pool is probably statistically insignificant compared to population....cough....even in US.

 

[Desk trauma]

If only experience that counts is a real firefight - preferably multiple ones to get reliable results - then that pool is probably statistically insignificant compared to population....cough....even in US.

Training counts, as training, not real experience in what one was training for. It’s like saying one is experienced at flying a plane after logging hours in a simulator with zero time in a real cockpit.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Training counts, as training, not real experience in what one was training for. It’s like saying one is experienced at flying a plane after logging hours in a simulator with zero time in a real cockpit.

Or saying that my impressive record playing Apex Legends qualifies me for actual combat.

.... what do you mean i don't have any power-ups in an actual combat scenario?

 

[Homeowner]

Training counts, as training, not real experience in what one was training for. It’s like saying one is experienced at flying a plane after logging hours in a simulator with zero time in a real cockpit.

Right, but if you can handle the plane at simulator you can probably handle it at least with some proficiency in the air. Nobody is an expert without experience.

Someone doing competitive paintball probably knows how to move around buildings, what openings to look for, what kind of distance to keep from wall, how to aim the weapon while not moving too fast to hit anything or when just to run and forget about aiming, how to cut corners and communicate with your team mates to start the stack moving to take corners inside rooms and instinctively divide room for proper firing arcs. Stuff like that.

Sure it is not the real thing, but most soldiers or law enforcement personnel around the world haven't real combat experience either. No telling how any of them would act unless they were mercilessly drilled and even then it wouldn't be a sure thing.

Depending on some civilian with some hours under his or her belt on putting shots at range to act professionally and smart when adrenaline hits them amidst fight or flight reaction surrounded by screaming kids of which someone may be the shooter is sheer lunacy.

 

[Homeowner]

Or saying that my impressive record playing Apex Legends qualifies me for actual combat.

That apparently depends. Not everyone is destined to be a door kicker. You might have great aptitude for shilling in some air conditioned cargo container on Djibouti and launching few hellfire missiles from Predator drone to smoke that civilian car that you were told is a terrorist get away vehicle in Pakistan tribal areas.

Do Gamers Make Better Drone Operators Than Pilots? | Air & Space Magazine| Smithsonian Magazine

Even if those drones aren't controlled by AI yet do you ever wonder if any US military personnel are actually controlling some ordinance flying over Russian columns in Ukraine ?

Wonder there haven't been any gofundme projects to launch some homemade bomb drones then sticking them to enemy troops. Highest donor gets to choose targets for the operator. Legal implications would be fascinating.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That apparently depends. Not everyone is destined to be a door kicker. You might have great aptitude for shilling in some air conditioned cargo container on Djibouti and launching few hellfire missiles from Predator drone to smoke that civilian car that you were told is a terrorist get away vehicle in Pakistan tribal areas.

Do Gamers Make Better Drone Operators Than Pilots? | Air & Space Magazine| Smithsonian Magazine

Even if those drones aren't controlled by AI yet do you ever wonder if any US military personnel are actually controlling some ordinance flying over Russian columns in Ukraine ?

Wonder there haven't been any gofundme projects to launch some homemade bomb drones then sticking them to enemy troops. Highest donor gets to choose targets for the operator. Legal implications would be fascinating.

In all fairness, Apex Legends taught me one valuable lesson in combat survival: Do Not Engage.

Most AL players don't realize that the game offers more XP for time survived than it does for scoring kills -- so while most players charge in at the first sounds of a firefight, I beat feet in the opposite direction... which is, IMO, the most sensible thing to do in any scenario when one hears gunfire.

As a result, I usually finish in at least the top five... and on two separate occasions, my squad won the game without firing a shot.

 

[Homeowner]

As a result, I usually finish in at least the top five... and on two separate occasions, my squad won the game without firing a shot.

That calls for......

 

[GoldenBoy89]

For what it’s worth I knew people like you would scoff at that statement but I said it anyway because it’s a fact. For people who’ve played tournament paintball they know what I’m talking about. For people who haven’t here’s a video.

One key difference here: All of the people involved went prepared to be in a form of a gun fight. They’re wearing protective gear and have all consented to be there and have at least an idea of where the shooting is going to start coming from. They’re not a group of teachers and students calmly sitting in a classroom one morning going over multiplication tables one minute and then having to suddenly react to a gunman bursting in the door and shooting people dead.

 

[renniks]

And you think that trying to protect a kid by shielding them and shooting a guy in the face is exactly the same.

Nope I think shooting him in the face is much more effective.

 

[RDKirk]

The significant real-world points that I've been trying to make are:

1. Nobody is attempting to think through the real issues that are involved in turning classroom teachers into armed government agents. It's not merely a matter of saying "Oh my goodness, no!" nor is it a matter of merely saying, "It's better than nothing." Somebody needs to think about the legal ramifications and the moral expectations.

2. The people advocating arming teachers are not facing the fact that they aren't going to get even the most rudimentary training for the armed defense task they are expected to do. A heavily armed shooter expecting to go out in a blaze of glory in a school full of children is almost the worst possible scenario. All he wants to do is kill the maximum number of children before being killed himself. In terms of risk and losses, there is hardly a worst situation for even the most well-trained combat force going in fully prepared for combat. What do we realistically expect a schoolteacher--who is never going to be trained well enough, and will always be caught by surprise-- to do?

 

[Homeowner]

What do we realistically expect a schoolteacher--who is never going to be trained well enough, and will always be caught by surprise-- to do?

To go in guns blazing. If the teacher succeeds it proves that guns are needed and beneficial. If the teacher fails and lots of bodies result from the situation it just clearly proves teachers need heavier guns and they should be mandatory so teachers could form instant SWAT squads that would certainly lead to tactical success.

NRA can't lose this one.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Except the military is taught to kill. They didn't used to be to any great extent. It used to be that they were taught to fight. And from here: Hope on the Battlefield | Greater Good.

'Only 15 to 20 percent of the American riflemen in combat during World War II would fire at the enemy.'

That's because most of the men were conscripts. Who were bricklayers, bus drivers, lawyers and...wait for it...teachers. Killing was extraordinarily difficult for them. So what happened. These sorts of figures were exactly what the army didn't want. They wanted their soldiers to kill the enemy. So the training changed. And what happened? New methods for training:

'Yet this understanding has also propelled armies to develop sophisticated methods for overcoming our innate aversion to killing..'

And the results?

'According to studies by the U.S. military, these changes resulted in a firing rate of 55 percent in Korea and 90 to 95 percent in Vietnam.'

So please don't kid yourself. Even trained soldiers find it difficult. It has to be trained out of them. And you want to do that with third grade teachers with a weekend running around in a paintball game.

Samuel Marshall was exposed as being a liar. Only 15% of American troops fired their weapon in WWII yet we were able to March thru Europe all the way to Berlin and win the war? Refusal to fight in a battle was punishable by court martial and possibly execution by fire squad although no one was ever sentenced to execution. So your talking about 80-85% of soldiers refusing to fight and the officers did nothing about this? Out of the 50 million soldiers who fought in the war only 7.5 million actually participated in it? I think you’ve been taken by an impossible tall tale.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The assertion that you have any experience with fire fights is incorrect. You were involved with a sport that uses similar tactics, not actual fire fights, and claiming that as experience is worthy of derision.

Ok fair enough I have more fire fight training than your typical military or law enforcement personnel that have never been in a fire fight which is most of them. Statistics show that 95% of police officers will never fire their weapon in the line of duty and roughly 90% of military personnel never actually participate in combat. So I trained for combat for 5 years and never actually went to battle.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Most teachers do not want to be turned into armed school security guards: Eric Foster


"you should know that the list of people who testified in opposition to the bill is long. Many, many more people testified in opposition to the bill than in support of it."

"I didn’t see testimony from one single Ohio teacher who said that he or she supported HB 99."

I don't think anyone is being forced to carry a gun. I'd imagine it is strictly voluntary.

 

[Hank77]

But not the guy with the AR-15 who is actually shooting the children.

There's something wrong here, but I can't seem to put my finger on it...

I think 18-21 yr olds should be able to buy a hunting rifle with a 5-shot max. before reloading.
I think AR-15 and large-capacity magazines should be banned.
I believe background checks should be universal.
I believe in 'red flag' laws.

The stress of protecting thirty students that belong to other people is the type of stress a law enforcement officer is under, maybe more. They should have the same certification for gun safety and accuracy. Gun safety should include a psych evaluation.

 

[Hank77]

Any chances that firearms owners will ever have to be similarly evaluated, or will a trigger finger continue to be the sole requirement?

What are the requirements to buy a gun? I think it's more than a trigger finger. Isn't it bad enough without exaggerating?