a Christian only topic of vaccine mandates

[The Barbarian]

Speaking of ratios, you have been misleading people by suggesting that 1 in 420 Americans have died from COVID, as if there was no age-stratification of risk.

Right. But apparently, it's now more then 1 in 350 people, after counting missed cases. I notice that again, you didn't post a link. I think I know why.

You realize most people over 50 are probably not happy that you don't consider us people work caring about.

 

[probinson]

As you learned, they both prevent infection

Nope.

and prevent hospitalizations and deaths for a large majority of vaccinated people.

Some. And yes, that's the one thing vaccines actually seem to do well. The only thing.

You're wrong about that, too. They not only prevent infections in people who are vaccinated;

Nope. There are countless examples of fully vaccinated people getting infected, not the least of which is Biden's press secretary. Of course, there isn't much transparency in reporting of breakthrough infections, for obvious reasons.

they also reduce infections because those vaccinated people won't spread the virus.

Nope. Even the CDC fully admits that the vaccines don't stop the spread. That's why they recommend everyone wear their talismanic face coverings regardless of their vaccination status.

No point in denial. At some point, you're going to have to make an accommodation to reality.

Oh, the irony.

 

[The Barbarian]

And Yes, I know Gov. Ron is now hiding deaths to make his record look better:

I never took you for a conspiracy theorist, but I suppose when the narrative starts to come unraveled, desperate times call for desperate measures.

I'm just showing you what news organizations in Florida found when they got suspicious about the suddenly low death rate. Turns out just changing the reporting system made Gov. Ron look better. You telling me that the television stations and newspapers in Florida are all conspiring to lie about Gov. Ron?

I never took you for a conspiracy theorist, but I suppose when the narrative starts to come unraveled, desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[The Barbarian]

And since you've abandoned arguments, and are now merely denying the evidence, I think we're done here. Take the last denial and we'll call it a day.

 

[probinson]

Right. But apparently, it's now more then 1 in 350 people, after counting missed cases. I notice that again, you didn't post a link. I think I know why.

Because I told you where it came from. The CDC COViD data tracker has an entire section dedicated to demographic data. You can download your own CSV file and analyze it all you want. I promise you'll come up with the same numbers though.

You realize most people over 50 are probably not happy that you don't consider us people work caring about.

I presented numbers showing your claim of 1 in 420 people dying from COVID was misleading. It absolutely is, and I just showed you why.

 

[probinson]

And Yes, I know Gov. Ron is now hiding deaths to make his record look better:

There is no evidence of that. But to quote Journey, "Don't stop... believing!"

I'm just showing you what news organizations in Florida found when they got suspicious about the suddenly low death rate.

"News organizations". Funny stuff.

 

[probinson]

Here's yet another example of vaccines failing to stop the spread of the virus. Here are the facts;

Cal's football team is 99% vaccinated.

There are 112 students and staff in total on the team.

Only 2 of them are not vaccinated and according to the article, those 2 have had COVID.

44 of the students and staff tested positive for COVID. The outbreak was so bad, they had to postpone one of their games.

Stop listening to the gaslighters that tell you vaccines slow the spread of the virus.

Cal's football team was 99% vaccinated before a big COVID-19 outbreak. What happened?

 

[Hammster]

Here's yet another example of vaccines failing to stop the spread of the virus. Here are the facts;

Cal's football team is 99% vaccinated.

There are 112 students and staff in total on the team.

Only 2 of them are not vaccinated and according to the article, those 2 have had COVID.

44 of the students and staff tested positive for COVID. The outbreak was so bad, they had to postpone one of their games.

Stop listening to the gaslighters that tell you vaccines slow the spread of the virus.

Cal's football team was 99% vaccinated before a big COVID-19 outbreak. What happened?

It was those two. Had they been vaccinated, the other vaccines would have worked.

 

[The Barbarian]

There are 112 students and staff in total on the team.

Only 2 of them are not vaccinated and according to the article, those 2 have had COVID.

44 of the students and staff tested positive for COVID. The outbreak was so bad, they had to postpone one of their games.

So about 36% of them were infected, in spite being constantly in close proximity. That's still higher than usual for vaccinated people...

The worst documented results so far, came from Israel:

In Israel, the Clalit Research Institute, in conjunction with Harvard University, conducted an observational study involving 130,464 COVID-19–naïve adolescents aged 12 to 18 years, half of whom were vaccinated with the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine from Jun 8 to Sep 14, 2021; matched participants were unvaccinated. During the study, 13,423 unvaccinated participants were vaccinated.

At the time of the study, Delta was responsible for more than 95% of new infections in Israel. The study is the largest peer-reviewed look at COVID-19 vaccine efficacy among adolescents in a nationwide setting and the first such study conducted at a time when Delta was the dominant circulating strain.

Over a median of 27 days after receipt of the first vaccine dose, Kaplan-Meier curves for infection showed a similar incidence of infection in the first few days after the vaccinated group received their first dose, after which the rise in incidence slowed among the vaccinated.

Estimated effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against infection was 59% (95% confidence interval [CI], 52% to 65%) 14 to 20 days after the first dose, climbing to 66% (95% CI, 59% to 72%) on days 21 to 27 and 90% (95% CI, 88% to 92%) 7 to 21 days after the second dose.

Efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 was estimated at 57% (95% CI, 39% to 71%) 14 to 20 days after the first vaccine dose, rising to 82% (95% CI, 73% to 91%) on days 21 to 27 and to 93% (95% CI, 88% to 97%) 7 to 21 days after the second dose.
Trials: COVID vaccines 90% effective against Delta infection, death

Apparently, no one on Cal's outbreak was hospitalized or even had serious symptoms. Which is consistent with the outcomes in the Israeli study. However, it is true that in the Delta variant, breakthrough cases do occasionally cause hospitalization and even death, sometimes to vaccinated people, but more often to those who have had COVID infections and recovered.

So much for the claim that unvaccinated people don't pose a risk to vaccinated people. Thanks for the information.

 

[The Barbarian]

It was those two. Had they been vaccinated, the other vaccines would have worked.

This illustrates a major error in understanding immunity. It's not a binary condition. There are degrees of immunity. The Delta variant proved to be more infectious and deadly than the previous strain. But the vaccination is still good protection, greatly reducing infection and offering very, very good protection against serious illness or death.

It doesn't seem that hard a concept, but maybe it is.

 

[Hammster]

This illustrates a major error in understanding immunity. It's not a binary condition. There are degrees of immunity. The Delta variant proved to be more infectious and deadly than the previous strain. But the vaccination is still good protection, greatly reducing infection and offering very, very good protection against serious illness or death.

It doesn't seem that hard a concept, but maybe it is.

And your post illustrates that vaccines don’t work. Even at 99%. Or 100%.

 

[probinson]

...

This is all a bunch of blathering to obfuscate the very simple point that the vaccines failed to stop the spread of the virus on the football team.

In early October with 96% of staff vaccinated and 95% of students, Harvard Business School moved their classes online amidst an increase in breakthrough infections.

Again demonstrating that the vaccine does not stop you from contracting COVID, nor does it stop you from spreading it.

Harvard Business School moves classes online amid rise in COVID cases

 

[The Barbarian]

And your post illustrates that vaccines don’t work.

As you now realize, they do work. Just not...

Even at 99%. Or 100%.

If seat belts are only 60% good at preventing injury in major collisions and only 95% good at preventing death, they "don't work?" Again, it's not binary. And no vaccine has ever been 100% effective in stopping infection.

I get the concern that vaccines are politically incorrect for many people. But the reality remains. They do work, and save lives.

 

[Hammster]

As you now realize, they do work. Just not...



If seat belts are only 60% good at preventing injury in major collisions and only 95% good at preventing death, they "don't work?" Again, it's not binary. And no vaccine has ever been 100% effective in stopping infection.

I get the concern that vaccines are politically incorrect for many people. But the reality remains. They do work, and save lives.

If they save lives, then stop worrying. Those who are vaccinated are safe.

 

[The Barbarian]

In early October with 96% of staff vaccinated and 95% of students, Harvard Business School moved their classes online amidst an increase in breakthrough infections.

How many of those vaccinated students were infected, hospitalized, died? Might be instructive for you to learn?

If, as you seem to now agree, even the most egregious cases show that vaccines are effective in preventing infection, and very effective at preventing severe disease and death.

 

[The Barbarian]

If they save lives, then stop worrying. Those who are vaccinated are safe.

What about young children, people with health conditions that prevent them from being vaccinated, and the occasional breakthrough infection? As you already know, it's perfectly legal to require immunizations, according to the Supreme Court over a hundred years back.

Further, one of the biggest problems for public health is the unvaccinated filling up ICUs, preventing others who need them from getting adequate care.

Unvaccinated Americans are ‘irresponsibly filling up our ERs and ICUs
An area of particular concern is the South, where vaccine hesitancy is high. Low vaccination rates in the region have helped fuel the rapid spread of the Delta variant, causing a surge in cases and pushing hospitals to capacity. Several hospital systems throughout the South have been forced to move patients to makeshift ICU areas or construct emergency field hospitals as they struggle to accommodate a large number of patients.
Unvaccinated Americans are ‘irresponsibly filling up our ERs and ICUs’: doctor

 

[probinson]

How many of those vaccinated students were infected, hospitalized, died? Might be instructive for you to learn?

You really ought to try cementing those goalposts in the ground.

If, as you seem to now agree, even the most egregious cases show that vaccines are effective in preventing infection, and very effective at preventing severe disease and death.

Vaccines are not effective at preventing infection, as these 2 instances show.

The ONLY thing vaccines seem to do well is prevent severe disease and death. As these cases vividly illustrate for anyone not fully consumed by the propaganda, they don't prevent infection and they they don't prevent spread.

 

[Job 33:6]

You really ought to try cementing those goalposts in the ground.



Vaccines are not effective at preventing infection, as these 2 instances show.

The ONLY thing vaccines seem to do well is prevent severe disease and death. As these cases vividly illustrate for anyone not fully consumed by the propaganda, they don't prevent infection and they they don't prevent spread.

They do prevent infection. I'm not sure where you get the idea that they don't. Much like Barbarians reference to seatbelts, they don't have to be 100% effective to prevent infection.

Even if some vaccinated people still contract covid-19 in breakthrough cases, that doesn't mean that vaccines aren't preventing infection in other people.

 

[probinson]

What about young children,

You mean young children that have a 1 in 150,000+ of death from COVID but a 1 in 7,500 chance of developing myocarditis from the vaccine? Seems like the benefit/risk analysis got distorted on this one a bit.

Of course, other countries have made adjustments. But not the US. They don't care about clinical outcomes and protecting people. They care only about their vaccination percentage as a talking point.

and the occasional breakthrough infection?

"Occasional". Right. 36% of a 99% fully vaccinated football team is not an "occasional" breakthrough rate by any objective definition of the word.

Unvaccinated Americans are ‘irresponsibly filling up our ERs and ICUs
An area of particular concern is the South, where vaccine hesitancy is high. Low vaccination rates in the region have helped fuel the rapid spread of the Delta variant, causing a surge in cases and pushing hospitals to capacity. Several hospital systems throughout the South have been forced to move patients to makeshift ICU areas or construct emergency field hospitals as they struggle to accommodate a large number of patients.
Unvaccinated Americans are ‘irresponsibly filling up our ERs and ICUs’: doctor

I wonder if there will be similar articles as the highly vaccinated states fill up the ER's and ICU's as the winter months progress. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Job 33:6]

I've tended to care less and less about anti vaxxers in recent times. 9/10 deaths are in the unvaxxed these days and with 1000-2000 people dying per day over the past few months in the US, it's 900/1000 or 1800/2000 anti-vaxxers that are dying on a daily basis.

How or why people want to be stubborn during this time of a mass dying of the unvaccinated is beyond me.