a Christian only topic of vaccine mandates

[LeafByNiggle]

Yes.

Did you bother to read any of the comments? Here's a sampling.

I read the survey questions. You apparently didn't. Knowing what the choices were is essential to interpreting the results, which by no stretch of the imagination imply that a significant portion of doctors and nurses think the FDA or the CDC is as joke. The comments you sampled also do not say anything that strong. And they are just comments. Comments tend to express the most extreme positions on any survey.

 

[probinson]

Show us one epidemiologist who says that every human will be infected by COVID-19. What do you have?

Not that I think you'll actually read any of this, but for others;

Vaccinated or not, everyone is likely to get COVID-19 at some point, many experts say – Orange County Register

Will everyone get COVID at some point?

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646

 

[probinson]

Say it with me... 2021. Your article says that the damage was done by the prior administration.

The words "prior administration" do not appear anywhere in the article I posted. You are referencing this tweet, which has absolutely nothing to do with the article I posted.

 

[probinson]

I read the survey questions. You apparently didn't.

Yes I did.

Knowing what the choices were is essential to interpreting the results, which by no stretch of the imagination imply that a significant portion of doctors and nurses think the FDA or the CDC is as joke.

You're right. I think the CDC and the FDA are a joke. 77% of doctors and nurses the responded to the survey have decreased trust in the CDC. Both of these statements are true.

You seem to have a very difficult time with conflating things.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Yes I did.

Then you would know that the survey question about trust only had 3 choices: increase, stay the same, or decrease. Choosing "decrease" means not an increase and not staying the same, but it says nothing about how much the trust decreased. It could be a lot, or it could be a tiny bit. They are all classified as "decrease".

You're right. I think the CDC and the FDA are a joke. 77% of doctors and nurses the responded to the survey have decreased trust in the CDC. Both of these statements are true.

They may both be true, but the statement about doctors and nurses does not support your belief that it is a joke.

You seem to have a very difficult time with conflating things.

The word "conflate" means to combine two ideas into one. But these two ideas do not combine. You were the one who tried to conflate them by quoting the survey results to support your belief. They are just two separate ideas. "Conflate" means you can consider the two things to be essentially the same. In this case they are not.

 

[LeGato]

I have a thread JUST like this in the American politics forum so now for the strictly Christian version

I read yesterday that as of about four days ago some 56% of American adults support some form of vaccine mandates; meanwhile over half 51% supported them as a condition for indoor dining.

Do you support them if so under what conditions?

I support a business owner's right to require them of employees and more and more I am supporting them as a condition of large gatherings think concerts, sports games and the like

no here means that NO ONE should be permitted to have a mandate in other words if you vote no you are saying that neither government NOR private employers/ businesses should be able to enforce any kind of mandate.

Like I said in a different thread...God doesn't make shoddy material. I will trust my God-given Immune System instead.

 

[probinson]

Then you would know that the survey question about trust only had 3 choices: increase, stay the same, or decrease. Choosing "decrease" means not an increase and not staying the same, but it says nothing about how much the trust decreased. It could be a lot, or it could be a tiny bit. They are all classified as "decrease".

Yes, Im glad to see you admit that 77% of the medical professionals when asked said their trust in the CDC had decreased. You don't see that as just a tiny bit problematic?

They may both be true, but the statement about doctors and nurses does not support your belief that it is a joke.

The CDC is a joke. That is my opinion. If you'd like, I can go into great detail and show you multiple examples of why, but I suspect you'd just wave it away anyway. So I'll save us both some time.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Yes, Im glad to see you admit that 77% of the medical professionals when asked said their trust in the CDC had decreased. You don't see that as just a tiny bit problematic?

Only to the extent that rampant misinformation is largely to blame. Yes, even medical professionals can be taken in. Since there is nothing vaguely comparable to the CDC to which the professionals can turn, that still leaves them the most trusted source for the sort of work they do. Certainly I would not turn to random YouTube videos by rogue doctors.

 

[Derek1111]

Only to the extent that rampant misinformation is largely to blame. Yes, even medical professionals can be taken in. Since there is nothing vaguely comparable to the CDC to which the professionals can turn, that still leaves them the most trusted source for the sort of work they do. Certainly I would not turn to random YouTube videos by rogue doctors.

If only there were a new meta-analysis showing the efficacy of various pubic health interventions ...

Oh wait! There is! https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

And still people will deny it.

 

[probinson]

Only to the extent that rampant misinformation is largely to blame.

You have no idea if that's why they chose to say their trust had decreased. In fact, the comments that I posted from the survey undermine that hypothesis.

Since there is nothing vaguely comparable to the CDC to which the professionals can turn, that still leaves them the most trusted source for the sort of work they do. Certainly I would not turn to random YouTube videos by rogue doctors.

"Rogue doctors". Interesting term.

This comment from the survey is relevant to your comment;

The fact that the FDA/CDC/WHO have all shut down any discourse on the topic of COVID that deviates from the official approved narrative is in and of itself questionable, NOT scientific, and extremely misleading.​

 

[LeafByNiggle]

You have no idea if that's why they chose to say their trust had decreased. In fact, the comments that I posted from the survey undermine that hypothesis.

It is my opinion, just like your opinion is that the CDC is a joke.

"Rogue doctors". Interesting term.

..and accurate. (IMO)

This comment from the survey is relevant to your comment;

The fact that the FDA/CDC/WHO have all shut down any discourse on the topic of COVID that deviates from the official approved narrative is in and of itself questionable, NOT scientific, and extremely misleading.​

The "fact" mentioned is not a fact, but is, itself, misinformation. The agencies mentioned have not stopped the rogue doctors or others that sow misinformation, and they certainly have not stopped the more legitimate discourse that continues unabated in the medical community. Suggestions to the contrary are merely another conspiracy theory.

 

[probinson]

It is my opinion, just like your opinion is that the CDC is a joke.

Fair enough. Just don't pretend like you know the motivations for why 2,450 medical professionals chose to say that their trust has decreased in the CDC.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Fair enough. Just don't pretend like you know the motivations for why 2,450 medical professionals chose to say that their trust has decreased in the CDC.

I never said I knew their motivations. I only said that the amount by which their trust has decreased is not indicated in the survey results. It could be anything, and for any reason. In fact, many of the comments indicate they thought the CDC was not strict enough with its masking guidance. I doubt if many of them think vaccines are ineffective.

 

[probinson]

I only said that the amount by which their trust has decreased is not indicated in the survey results. It could be anything, and for any reason.

Still, when medical professionals were asked has your trust of the CDC increased, stayed the same or decreased, and more than 3/4 of respondents choose decreased, this is cause for concern, wouldn't you say?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Still, when medical professionals were asked has your trust of the CDC increased, stayed the same or decreased, and more than 3/4 of respondents choose decreased, this is cause for concern, wouldn't you say?

Some concern yes, but it is not unexpected, given the extraordinary circumstances, and the amount of misinformation circulating.

 

[probinson]

In other news, the FDA has asked for 55 years to release all of the data on Pfizer's COVID vaccine in response to a FOIA requesting the data after taking only 108 days to fully approve it.

FDA asks for 55 years to release data on Pfizer's COVID vaccine

 

[probinson]

Some concern yes, but it is not unexpected, given the extraordinary circumstances, and the amount of misinformation circulating.

It's rather surprising to me that you think it's "not unexpected" that 3/4 of medical professionals have decreased trust in the CDC. You keep implicating "misinformation", yet it doesn't even seem to cross your mind that the constant bumbling and inconsistent messaging of the CDC from day one is to blame.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes.

Did you bother to read any of the comments? Here's a sampling. Keep in mind these are all doctors and nurses;

My trust in CDC and FDA has decreased due to the obvious manipulation by politicians .

I trust the CDC but have no trust in the FDA. They are all about money and big pharma

What a mess with media misinformation and shady scare-tactic messaging. “Data” could always be manipulated and therefore weaponized. I just never thought I’d see the day it would silence the medical profession due to sheer fear. I thought that only happened in China and the Soviet Union.

The fact that the FDA/CDC/WHO have all shut down any discourse on the topic of COVID that deviates from the official approved narrative is in and of itself questionable, NOT scientific, and extremely misleading.

I do not question, doubt or disagree with the mission(s) of the agencies. I do (within the last two years) question the degree to which leaders of those institutions are able to truly implement scientifically sound and public helath-centric recommendations and practices free from pollitcal influence and bias.

I'm surprised the CDC hasn't stated that the Pandemic was caused by Climate Change. This whole thing was politically-driven. Even the studies, which they paid for, already had the outcome stated and the studies were structured to support that outcome. I trust nothing that comes out of the CDC, anymore.

As a former FDA consultant/panel member for many years, on many topics and panels, I had always been aware of the political pressures and bureaucratic recourse to self preservation and obstinacy. However, the C19 pandemic revealed a new depth to the inappropriateness of the reactions of both the FDA and CDC. One cannot help but ponder the mischief of direct political influence on Federal institutions.

Neither can be trusted, as it has been evident that they cave to political pressures and can't give Americans straight answers. When you have a health agency taking advice from a teacher's union president about when they should say what, then you know we're in trouble.

It is sad to see what once was a highly credible organization being coerced by money and politics. The world has looked up to our CDC and FDA. Now they are looking sideways and wonder, 'what happened?'

Their allegiance is political rather than professional.

These agencies lost their credibility once they bowed to political pressure to advance the fear agenda. They flip flop daily on masks and which vaccine is safe. sadly, I no longer feel I can trust them at all. This goes double for the WHO, whose behavior at the onset of this was nothing short of criminally negligent. It is really a sad day for medicine.​

I think that one sure thing that the outbreak and handling of COVID have done.... is create huge distrust in our government, medical professionals and the media.

I believe that, as more facts are discovered in regards to the FDA, Fauci and the flip flop moving of the goal posts... this distrust will be strengthened.

 

[probinson]

I think that one sure thing that the outbreak and handling of COVID have done.... is create huge distrust in our government, medical professionals and the media.

I believe that, as more facts are discovered in regards to the FDA, Fauci and the flip flop moving of the goal posts... this distrust will be strengthened.

Absolutely right.

I fully agree that the distrust will grow, and they will have no one to blame but themselves.