a Christian only topic of vaccine mandates

[probinson]

In a memo to hospital staff;

"We are finding that 75-80% of our employees who have tested positive are fully vaccinated."​

"Rare".

 

[The Barbarian]

Ah yes, Dr. Brytney Cobia, who wrote a viral post dripping with propaganda that the media gobbled up without verifying any of the claims in it.

And you believed it was true?

Turns out, it is...
ABC News contacted 50 hospitals in 17 states, and asked them to share data on their ICU wards' current COVID-19 patients, including their vaccination status. In the surveyed hospitals, ABC News found that the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 patients currently being treated in ICUs were unvaccinated.

Of the 271 total COVID patients in the surveyed ICUs, 255 patients, or approximately 94%, were unvaccinated against COVID-19 in ABC News' snapshot in time.

Further, of the 16 vaccinated individuals receiving care in the ICU, almost all suffered from comorbidities and other health problems, such as cancer or weakened immune systems. ABC News only heard of one otherwise healthy and fully vaccinated individual, with no reported underlying conditions, who was in the ICU.

Unvaccinated people change their views after COVID-infection

Let's take a look in at Vermont, which boasts one of the highest rate of fully vaccinated people in the country.

I don't think you're going to like the way that turns out...

New data shows Vermont COVID19 cases rising again with unvaccinated youngsters driving the surge.
https://news.yahoo.com/vermont-covid19-infections-rising-again-221622877.html

Looks like you made my argument for me.

 

[The Barbarian]

In a memo to hospital staff;

"We are finding that 75-80% of our employees who have tested positive are fully vaccinated."
"Rare".

You're not going to like this one, either... As in the Vermont case that backfired on you the question is, "what is the ratio of unvaccinated to vaccinated personnel?"

Suppose 98% are vaccinated. If the vaccine made no difference, then 98% of the infected people would be vaccinated. So even in a very high risk situation, the risk for unvaccinated people would 10 to 12 times greater, if most people are vaccinated. The actual numbers would change with the ratio, of course.

Get the vaccinated/unvaccinated ratio for that hospital, and then we can figure it out. This is why it should be required for all high school students to get at least one introductory class in statistics.

 

[The Barbarian]

So with that said, there’s no need for everyone to be vaccinated.

Numbers indicate that it would have saved hundreds of thousands of American lives. Seems like a need to me.

 

[JacksBratt]

So with that said, there’s no need for everyone to be vaccinated.

The vaccination does not prevent your from getting Covid. Does not prevent you from carrying Covid. Does not prevent you from passing Covid to someone else.

The only way this "shot" which is not technicallly a vaccination, has been a success.... is in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies for the money they have made.

 

[The Barbarian]

The vaccination does not prevent your from getting Covid.

Turns out, you're really, really wrong. So far, data show something like a ten times greater chance of dying from COVID-19 if you aren't vaccinated. Would you like me to show you, again?

The only way this "shot" which is not technicallly a vaccination, has been a success....

... is in the greatly reduced number of vaccinated people getting infected and dying of the disease. Should I show you that data, again?

 

[The Barbarian]

CDC COVID-19 Study Shows mRNA Vaccines Reduce Risk of Infection by 91 Percent for Fully Vaccinated People
Vaccination Makes Illness Milder, Shorter for the Few Vaccinated People Who Do Get COVID-19
Coronavirus Disease 2019

While research suggests that COVID-19 vaccines are slightly less effective against the variants, the vaccines still appear to provide protection against severe COVID-19. For example:

• Early research from the U.K. suggests that, after full vaccination, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is 88% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant. The vaccine is 96% effective at preventing severe disease with the COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant. The research also showed that the vaccine is 93% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 virus caused by the alpha variant.
• Early research from Canada suggests that, after one dose, the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine is 72% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant. One dose of the vaccine is also 96% effective at preventing severe disease with the COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant.
• The Janssen/Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine is 85% effective at preventing severe disease with the COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant, according to data released by Johnson & Johnson.

Do COVID-19 vaccines protect against the variants? - Mayo Clinic

I know... "the Mayo Clinic is in on the conspiracy, too!" Right.

 

[Hammster]

Numbers indicate that it would have saved hundreds of thousands of American lives. Seems like a need to me.

The vaccines are saving hundreds of thousands of lives. So it’s a draw.

 

[probinson]

Turns out, you're really, really wrong.

Nope. Every day there's a new report of yet another vaccinated person contracting COVID. The vaccine absolutely does not stop you from contracting COVID. It doesn't even really reduce the risk.

Many people I've spoken with have countless real-world examples. I personally know no fewer than 2 dozen people that are vaccinated and contracted COVID. The funny thing is, most of them had worse symptoms than I did when I had COVID, and I'm not vaccinated.

But it's "rare".

I was in my office on Friday speaking with numerous co-workers, some vaccinated, some not, sharing stories of their vaccinated friends not only contracting COVID, but ending up on oxygen in the hospital, and a few even landed in ICU.

But it's "rare".

The NFL has had countless players placed on the COVID list, most of which are fully vaccinated.

But it's "rare".

When you step out of the brainwashed fog of the media and the public health "experts" and examine reality around you, you see just how pervasive the gaslighting is.

 

[probinson]

I don't think you're going to like the way that turns out...

New data shows Vermont COVID19 cases rising again with unvaccinated youngsters driving the surge.

So wait a minute... you think that Vermont, with the vast majority of its population vaccinated, is now seeing a surge because of the unvaccinated, but you think that the surge mentioned in the hospital memo above is because of the high percentage of vaccinated staff?

This cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias is really something to behold.

 

[probinson]

Another example. Germany has COVID pass, and has imposed medical-grade mask mandates. Certainly they have things under control, no?

Um, no.

 

[The Barbarian]

So wait a minute... you think that Vermont, with the vast majority of its population vaccinated, is now seeing a surge because of the unvaccinated,

That's what the data says. You see, Vermont imposed mandates, most people got vaccinated, so the pandemic didn't hit them that hard.
Vermont COVID: 44,801 Cases and 393 Deaths - Worldometer

Then, the Delta variant, that hits younger people harder, arrives. But pretty late, because Vermont has the highest vaccination rate in the country. But eventually,l it gets there and now, those younger unvaccinated people are vulnerable.

It's not hard to figure out. The infections in Vermont are largely the unvaccinated. I realize that's exactly what you don't want to acknowledge, but as you see, it's a fact.

but you think that the surge mentioned in the hospital memo above is because of the high percentage of vaccinated staff?

Surge? Show us that. Number make a surge. Percentages don't mean much in that regard. I'll show you again...

As in the Vermont case that backfired on you the question is, "what is the ratio of unvaccinated to vaccinated personnel?"

Suppose 98% are vaccinated. If the vaccine made no difference, then 98% of the infected people would be vaccinated. So even in a very high risk situation, the risk for unvaccinated people would 10 to 12 times greater, if most people are vaccinated. The actual numbers would change with the ratio, of course.

Get the vaccinated/unvaccinated ratio for that hospital, and then we can figure it out.

I see you declined to get the ratio for us. For reasons we all understand. No "surge" after all. I notice you didn't provide a source for that screenshot, for reasons we don't know, but can guess at.

This is why it should be required for all high school students to get at least one introductory class in statistics.

 

[The Barbarian]

Another example. Germany has COVID pass, and has imposed medical-grade mask mandates. Certainly they have things under control, no?

Um, no.

Right. Only about 63% of Germans are vaccinated.
COVID-19 vaccination in Germany - Wikipedia

That's a problem. Remember only about 60% of Floridians are fully vaccinated. And they had the worst surge in infections and deaths in the country. I don't think you've thought this out very well.

 

[probinson]

That's a problem. Remember only about 60% of Floridians are fully vaccinated. And they had the worst surge in infections and deaths in the country. I don't think you've thought this out very well.

Speaking of Florida;

Just look at that precipitous decline in cases, with only 60% vaccinated and no mask mandates. How can this be? We've been gaslit to believe that vaccines and masks are the only thing that brings cases down.

Total cow flop.

 

[The Barbarian]

Nope. Every day there's a new report of yet another vaccinated person contracting COVID. The vaccine absolutely does not stop you from contracting COVID. It doesn't even really reduce the risk.

Let's see...
"Every day there's a new report of another sober person dying in an auto accident. Driving sober absolutely does not stop you from dying in an auto accident. It doesn't even really reduce the risk."

No, that sounds just as crazy applied to drunk driving as it does to going unvaccinated. Let's look at the numbers....

The findings from this study are consistent with those observed in other countries. Israel has reported 90% VE for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against hospitalization; however, a decline in VE against new diagnosed infections occurred during June 20–July 17 (decreasing to <65%) (5). Another study in the United Kingdom found higher VE against infection with the Delta variant for Pfizer-BioNTech (88%), which was lower than VE against the B.1.1.7 (Alpha) variant (94%) (6).
New COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations Among...

Breakthrough Covid cases: Data shows how many vaccinated Americans have tested positive
The 125,682 "breakthrough" cases in 38 states represent less than .08 percent of the 164.2 million-plus people fully vaccinated since January.
Breakthrough Covid cases: Data shows how many vaccinated Americans have tested positive

Vaccinated Californians Estimated to Account for 20% of Current COVID Infections
Vaccinated Californians Estimated to Account for 20% of Current COVID Infections

About 74% of Californians are vaccinated. If the vaccination did nothing at all, you'd expect about 74% of current COVID-19 infections to be vaccinated people. Instead, it's about 20%. So, unvaccinated people are nearly 4 times more likely to be infected in California.

I realize how much you have invested in believing that the vaccines don't work. But the data clearly show that they do.

 

[probinson]

I realize how much you have invested in believing that the vaccines don't work. But the data clearly show that they do.

Vaccines "work".

The only thing vaccines have been shown to be effective at is reducing severe outcomes and death for the individuals that receive them. The vaccines don't stop the spread, so they don't "work" in that regard. They don't stop you from getting sick, so they don't "work" in that regard. They don't stop you from spreading the disease, so they don't "work" in that regard. The protection only lasts for 6 months before you need a booster, so they don't "work" in that regard.

I realize how much you have invested in believing that the vaccines "work", but the data clearly shows that they fail on almost all fronts.

 

[The Barbarian]

Just look at that precipitous decline in cases, with only 60% vaccinated and no mask mandates.

Sorry, that's wrong. A judge told Gov. Ron to stuff it and let the schools protect their students and teachers. And the airlines and cruise lines likewise ignored his demands and protected their employees and customers.

Would you like me to show you that, again? However it is true that Florida had a horrible surge because of Ron's inaction:

That's appalling. And preventable. And Yes, I know Gov. Ron is now hiding deaths to make his record look better:

Florida’s new COVID reporting methods lead to misinformation on deaths, lawsuit
The Herald Tuesday reported Florida recently changed how it reported COVID-related deaths to the CDC. Florida had been reporting deaths by the day recorded. That gave a more accurate picture of a real-time situation.


But in early August, the state switched to reporting deaths by date of death. That process is more involved and can cause weeks-long delays in reporting. It can also cause the appearance of a false decline in death. Weeks later, the data show that a decline in deaths never happened.
Florida’s new COVID reporting methods lead to misinformation on deaths, lawsuit

 

[probinson]

Speaking of ratios, you have been misleading people by suggesting that 1 in 420 Americans have died from COVID, as if there was no age-stratification of risk.

Here are the real ratios of people who have died from COVID, per the CDC's demographics data;

 

[probinson]

View attachment 308383
That's appalling. And preventable.

Sure. That's why states with high vaccination rates and that "did everything right" are experiencing surges. Heck, even Newsom had to concede that the virus is seasonal, to cover for the increasing numbers in California.

And Yes, I know Gov. Ron is now hiding deaths to make his record look better:

I never took you for a conspiracy theorist, but I suppose when the narrative starts to come unraveled, desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[The Barbarian]

Vaccines "work".

As you learned, they both prevent infection and prevent hospitalizations and deaths for a large majority of vaccinated people.

The only thing vaccines have been shown to be effective at is reducing severe outcomes and death for the individuals that receive them. The vaccines don't stop the spread, so they don't "work" in that regard.

You're wrong about that, too. They not only prevent infections in people who are vaccinated; they also reduce infections because those vaccinated people won't spread the virus.

They don't stop you from getting sick, so they don't "work" in that regard.

See above. You've been misled about that, too...

The 125,682 "breakthrough" cases in 38 states represent less than .08 percent of the 164.2 million-plus people fully vaccinated since January.

They don't stop you from getting sick, so they don't "work" in that regard.

Sorry. You're wrong there, too:
The findings from this study are consistent with those observed in other countries. Israel has reported 90% VE for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against hospitalization; however, a decline in VE against new diagnosed infections occurred during June 20–July 17 (decreasing to <65%) (5). Another study in the United Kingdom found higher VE against infection with the Delta variant for Pfizer-BioNTech (88%), which was lower than VE against the B.1.1.7 (Alpha) variant (94%)

No point in denial. At some point, you're going to have to make an accommodation to reality.