As believers we have duty to contend for the faith

[Jipsah]

But we can say Mormons are not saved because they reject essential truths in God’s Word.

Whose "essential truths"? That God is Triune? Most Christians confess it, but a very few understand the concept (I'm sure that you're one of them.) That Christ is God Incarnate? An astonishing number of "evangelical Christians" reject the idea outright, and a larger number think of Christ as part-God and part man hybrid rather than "very God of very God". That God created the universe in 6 24 hour days? I don't believe that myself, zat mean I'm hellbound? Some certainly believe so.

As noted, humans are lousy judges. That's a job best left to God.

The same is true of saying that an atheist is not saved. They don’t believe in Jesus.

I'm sorry, I can't see trusting anyone dumb enough to be an athiest go get anything else right. But the thing to remember is that in the end God does the saving, and if God wants to save that atheist , then that atheist is on his way to Heaven even if it's kicking and screaming.

That's another reason why the pernicious thought "God cannot..." should be rebuked. God can do absolutely anything He wants to. Only His will limits what He does. To speak as though it was otherwise serves only to encourage us to place imaginary limits on God. It becomes ever easier, then, to think in terms of "God certainly can't do that..." and mentally keeping Him from interfering with religious/ideological/philosophical notions of our own.

Will God save the atheist? If He wants to, absolutely. Will He ask the atheist's permission first? Why would He? Are the atheist's preferences of greater importance than the will of Almighty God? Yeah...no. Add to that the atheist has proven that he's not over bright by being an atheist. Better leave this one to God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Whose "essential truths"? That God is Triune? Most Christians confess it, but a very few understand the concept (I'm sure that you're one of them.) That Christ is God Incarnate? An astonishing number of "evangelical Christians" reject the idea outright, and a larger number think of Christ as part-God and part man hybrid rather than "very God of very God". That God created the universe in 6 24 hour days? I don't believe that myself, zat mean I'm hellbound? Some certainly believe so.

As noted, humans are lousy judges. That's a job best left to God.



I'm sorry, I can't see trusting anyone dumb enough to be an athiest go get anything else right. But the thing to remember is that in the end God does the saving, and if God wants to save that atheist , then that atheist is on his way to Heaven even if it's kicking and screaming.

That's another reason why the pernicious thought "God cannot..." should be rebuked. God can do absolutely anything He wants to. Only His will limits what He does. To speak as though it was otherwise serves only to encourage us to place imaginary limits on God. It becomes ever easier, then, to think in terms of "God certainly can't do that..." and mentally keeping Him from interfering with religious/ideological/philosophical notions of our own.

Will God save the atheist? If He wants to, absolutely. Will He ask the atheist's permission first? Why would He? Are the atheist's preferences of greater importance than the will of Almighty God? Yeah...no. Add to that the atheist has proven that he's not over bright by being an atheist. Better leave this one to God.

I don’t believe God forces people to be saved. That’s not the God described in the Bible. For there are many instances where God gets upset at men when they sin. That’s not possible if God just forces people to be a certain way. Then there is 2 Thessalonians 2:10 that says:

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

So why do the unrighteousness perish? It’s because they chose to receive not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. So the choice is in their hands.

 

[Jipsah]

I don’t believe God forces people to be saved.

I think He does if He thinks that's best.

That’s not the God described in the Bible.

Oh? Like the God Who knocked St.Paul down in the road, the God Who drove Jonah, much aginst Jonah's will, to go and profesy against Ninevah to force them into repenting? The same God Who hardened Pharoah's heart? The same God who sent an angel with a sword and a talking ass to square Baalam away? That God? Is this another of those "God can't..." moments?

God can. We've been over that. And if He wills something, then it happens, punto. The "God can't..." rules are just ridiculous attempts at keeping God from messing up our doctrines. They're nonsense. And if God wants to save anyone, of any persuasion, anywhere, at any time, no power in the universe can stop Him. He does not need to consult us on it, or consider our opinion. It just happens, end of.

That’s not possible if God just forces people to be a certain way.

Sez who? Me? You? The pope? The president? So what? You can argue that God won't, but that would simply be your opinion; worth the price charged. But if you say He can't, then you're simply mistaken. He can. With God, nothing shall be impossible, right?

So why do the unrighteousness perish? It’s because they chose to receive not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. So the choice is in their hands.

Right up there with their choices in the design of the universe. And if their choice runs contrary to God's will, then their choice doesn't signify. You're telling me that the choice of one of God's creatures negates God's will regarding that creature, and that thus God cannot act in opposition to that creature's choice. My reply is simple: the phrase "God cannot" is always false.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think He does if He thinks that's best.

Oh? Like the God Who knocked St.Paul down in the road, the God Who drove Jonah, much aginst Jonah's will, to go and profesy against Ninevah to force them into repenting? The same God Who hardened Pharoah's heart? The same God who sent an angel with a sword and a talking ass to square Baalam away? That God? Is this another of those "God can't..." moments?

God can. We've been over that. And if He wills something, then it happens, punto. The "God can't..." rules are just ridiculous attempts at keeping God from messing up our doctrines. They're nonsense. And if God wants to save anyone, of any persuasion, anywhere, at any time, no power in the universe can stop Him. He does not need to consult us on it, or consider our opinion. It just happens, end of.

Sez who? Me? You? The pope? The president? So what? You can argue that God won't, but that would simply be your opinion; worth the price charged. But if you say He can't, then you're simply mistaken. He can. With God, nothing shall be impossible, right?

Right up there with their choices in the design of the universe. And if their choice runs contrary to God's will, then their choice doesn't signify. You're telling me that the choice of one of God's creatures negates God's will regarding that creature, and that thus God cannot act in opposition to that creature's choice. My reply is simple: the phrase "God cannot" is always false.

They are choosing to walk away from God and His Word.

They received not the love of the truth….. that they MIGHT be saved.
There is no MIGHT be saved in Calvinism, or Determinism and yet that is what the Bible plainly says.

Also, what is the reason why those who perish are perishing? Is it because God did not Elect them? No, it says that they received not the love of the truth… that they MIGHT be saved.

 

[SkyWriting]

But we can say Mormons are not saved because they reject essential truths in God’s Word.

Nope. We can't. You are mistaken.

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

 

[Jipsah]

Deleted

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nope. We can't. You are mistaken.

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

There is a difference between correcting a wrong view of Sin and Salvation, vs. judging a brother or sister in Christ. They are not the same thing.

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't think that works in either the physical, or spiritual realms. If I forgive someone, they are forgiven, whether they want, or accept, my forgiveness. The power of forgiveness is not in the transgressor, but in the transgressed. As I understand it.

You can forgive me for wanting to injure a childhood friend of mine for things he has done.
But I won't accept your forgiveness for my thoughts......becasue you don't know what they are.
And I can tell you what they are.....but you won't know what he did.
And I can tell you what he did and what my thoughts are, but you won't
really understand why I feel the way I do.

So your forgiveness has no value to me.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is a difference between correcting a wrong view of Sin and Salvation, vs. judging a brother or sister in Christ. They are not the same thing.

Though I agree you have a wrong view of sin and salvation, it's wrong of me to assume you are not saved. That's what judgment is all about and saved for Judgment day.

 

[SkyWriting]

But we can say Mormons are not saved because they reject essential truths in God’s Word.

That would be lying. God decides what is in their heart and ignores all church attendance.

 

[SkyWriting]

The same is true of saying that an atheist is not saved. They don’t believe in Jesus.

No different than children, yet Jesus said they have the correct attitude.

 

[SkyWriting]

I believe the Bible teaches that those who justify sin in some way are not going to make it.

Everyone does that, so your conclusion is faulty.

 

[SkyWriting]

One has to either ignore or change the Word of God at every turn when they read the Bible to make a sin and still be saved type of belief work. It just doesn’t add up with a plain and normal reading of the Bible.

The Bible says the Bible is not needed or required to be saved.
All the Plain and Normal people in the Bible did not have a copy of it. Not a one.
The vast number of people in scripture could not read.
Somehow some of them came to know God.

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't think that works in either the physical, or spiritual realms..

The forgiver must be qualified and empowered to forgive.
How many times have you heard people say that their sins were unforgivable?
They hold onto those sins like glue and refuse forgiveness.

 

[SkyWriting]

Oh? Like the God Who knocked St.Paul down in the road,

(God doesn't do that)

the God Who drove Jonah, much against Jonah's will, to go and prophesy against Nineveh to force them into repenting?

(Prophesy has no effect on who God does not choose)

The same God Who hardened Pharoah's heart?

(God can choose not to soften someone's heart. You might call that hardening.)

The same God who sent an angel with a sword and a talking ass to square Baalam away?

(Angels have different characteristics than God.)

God can. We've been over that. And if He wills something, then it happens, punto.

(God never changes His perfect plans.)

The "God can't..." rules are just ridiculous attempts at keeping God from messing up our doctrines. They're nonsense. And if God wants to save anyone, of any persuasion, anywhere, at any time, no power in the universe can stop Him. He does not need to consult us on it, or consider our opinion. It just happens, end of.

(He does not interfere with His own plans.)

Sez who? Me? You? The pope? The president? So what? You can argue that God won't, but that would simply be your opinion; worth the price charged. But if you say He can't, then you're simply mistaken. He can. With God, nothing shall be impossible, right?

(God's creation's cannot break their own rules, because God didn't make any mistakes to correct)

Right up there with their choices in the design of the universe. And if their choice runs contrary to God's will, then their choice doesn't signify. You're telling me that the choice of one of God's creatures negates God's will regarding that creature, and that thus God cannot act in opposition to that creature's choice. My reply is simple: the phrase "God cannot" is always false.

God cannot change His mind. No human can change God's mind or plans.

 

[Saint Steven]

You can forgive me for wanting to injure a childhood friend of mine for things he has done.
But I won't accept your forgiveness for my thoughts......becasue you don't know what they are.
And I can tell you what they are.....but you won't know what he did.
And I can tell you what he did and what my thoughts are, but you won't
really understand why I feel the way I do.

So your forgiveness has no value to me.

There is no need for me to forgive you for your ill thoughts toward another. There is no injury to me personally in that. What's to forgive? I does hurt me to hear about the prison you have put yourself in with unforgiveness. How much energy are you directing at this obviously traumatic situation? Let it go. (Matthew 18:34-35)

But you do need to talk to someone about this. PM me if you please. This thing is eating you alive. I can help.

But perhaps your example was a hypothetical?

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no need for me to forgive you for your ill thoughts toward another.

The issue is whether I accept your forgiveness or not. I say it's up to me.
In this instance a friend raped my sister.
God can forgive my thoughts about him, and you can.
But I can only accept God's forgiveness as valid and yours not.

 

[Saint Steven]

The issue is whether I accept your forgiveness or not. I say it's up to me.
In this instance a friend raped my sister.
God can forgive my thoughts about him, and you can.
But I can only accept God's forgiveness as valid and yours not.

From my perspective you have it backwards. Sorry to hear about what happened to your sister, and to your relationship with your friend. This is real life stuff. As Christians, how do we handle real life stuff?

From my perspective, forgiveness is something you grant to the person that has offended, or hurt you. It has nothing to with the attitude, or actions, of the person that has offended, or hurt you.

Essentially a contract between you and God. The person that offended, or hurt you, may even continue to offend and hurt you, showing no remorse whatsoever. In that case we need to set some boundaries and leave it at that. A poison relationship usually cannot be restored.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Though I agree you have a wrong view of sin and salvation, it's wrong of me to assume you are not saved. That's what judgment is all about and saved for Judgment day.

I strive not to judge a person now because in the end, they could repent of their wrong beliefs. I strive to focus my attack on the wrong belief and not the person and their status with God. For I know that even I have made mistakes and I have had misunderstandings. So I strive not to throw stones at them personally, but I throw stones at the wrong belief demolishing strongholds. For imagine if we as believers tried to attack the bad actions of Saul (i.e. later the apostle Paul) and we did nothing to reach him for Christ? Surely Saul (Paul) was not living in the way of the Lord when he persecuted the church. But I would like to think that if I ever faced someone like Saul, that I could be a good witness to him, and show him the love of Christ, and yet correct him on his false belief on where he is going wrong.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Bible says the Bible is not needed or required to be saved.
All the Plain and Normal people in the Bible did not have a copy of it. Not a one.
The vast number of people in scripture could not read.
Somehow some of them came to know God.

Actually God speaks to His people in different ways throughout time.

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that I believe that God can speak to us in life situations that confirm God’s Word (the Bible). God can speak to us by nature of His existence and glory, but these are not actual words communicating any new messages or instructions. God does not give us new instructions or new spiritual truths outside of His Word (the Holy Bible). God always speaks to us today according to His Word (the Bible).