As believers we have duty to contend for the faith

[Jesus is YHWH]

There is a difference between willfully "deny" and misunderstand.

This was my concern about the survey poll. That identified misunderstands more than outright denials.

Are not we told to show thyself approved as one who accurately handles the word of God ?

I see this as the problem at its core or foundation. Where is the discipleship process in the church ?

By definition a disciple is a learner. So why would we place less importance on Gods word than we do secular schooling and education ?

I raised my 4 children this way from childhood and all 4 of them are adults in ministry. Train up a child and the way he will go and when he gets old he will not depart from it. I practiced this in my family along with the following

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

We talked about the Lord daily in all areas of life and made Christianity practical. Now they are passing that foundation onto our grandchildren. We modeled the Christian life with them, gave them a strong foundation Gods word and the Lord has blessed our family with missionaries, youth leaders/pastor, child director and professional Christian musicians. They all have different gifts and talents serving Christ.

The Lord has truly blessed our family. My kids are 22-35 years old now. In this age with millennials and generation x its a miracle from God with the brainwashing of our culture that is opposed to His ways. Jesus gets all the glory and His word has always been a part of my daily life since day 1 back in 1980. I've never looked back and continue that study time with Christ every morning before my family wakes up in the morning. I desire Him more than food or anything else in this life. To know Him is what its all about and to share that with others. We practice lifestyle evangelism where we get to know people and eventually they will ask about our faith and we get opportunities to share Christ with them on a practical level because we have poured our lives into them. My wife is amazing at this with our neighbors and so are our children.

But anyways thats enough rambling for now lol.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Saint Steven]

Are not we told to show thyself approved as one who accurately handles the word of God ?

I see this as the problem at its core or foundation. Where is the discipleship process in the church ?

Sure, but that's not a salvation issue.
Disciples are also told to move mountains and raise the dead.

And some are wired better for study and teaching than others. And I thank God for those behind the scenes people at church who can handle things that I'm not wired to do. But if I talked to most of them about the stuff you and I discuss, their eyes would glaze over. Accompanied by blank looks and stares. - lol

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Sure, but that's not a salvation issue.
Disciples are also told to move mountains and raise the dead.

And some are wired better for study and teaching than others. And I thank God for those behind the scenes people at church who can handle things that I'm not wired to do. But if I talked to most of them about the stuff you and I discuss, their eyes would glaze over. Accompanied by blank looks and stares. - lol

This is where we disagree how is being a disciple not a salvation issue when Jesus refused many and they turned away when they considered the " Cost" of being a disciple ie a follower of Jesus ?

There is a plethora of Scripture on this in the gospels. Should we discuss the issue of counting the cost of being a follower of Jesus, a disciple and the great commission ?

The gospel call according to Jesus is being a disciple, its not an option but a command as per Matthew 28:18-20. Its the starting point at conversion.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Following Jesus is easy when life runs smoothly; our true commitment to Him is revealed during trials. Jesus assured us that trials will come to His followers (John 16:33). Discipleship demands sacrifice, and Jesus never hid that cost.

In Luke 9:57-62, three people seemed willing to follow Jesus. When Jesus questioned them further, their commitment was half-hearted at best. They failed to count the cost of following Him. None was willing to take up his cross and crucify upon it his own interests.

Therefore, Jesus appeared to dissuade them. How different from the typical Gospel presentation! How many people would respond to an altar call that went, “Come follow Jesus, and you may face the loss of friends, family, reputation, career, and possibly even your life”? The number of false converts would likely decrease! Such a call is what Jesus meant when He said, “Take up your cross and follow Me.”

If you wonder if you are ready to take up your cross, consider these questions:
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing some of your closest friends?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means alienation from your family?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means the loss of your reputation?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your job?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your life?

In some places of the world, these consequences are reality. But notice the questions are phrased, “Are you willing?” Following Jesus doesn’t necessarily mean all these things will happen to you, but are you willing to take up your cross? If there comes a point in your life where you are faced with a choice—Jesus or the comforts of this life—which will you choose?

Commitment to Christ means taking up your cross daily, giving up your hopes, dreams, possessions, even your very life if need be for the cause of Christ. Only if you willingly take up your cross may you be called His disciple (Luke 14:27). The reward is worth the price. Jesus followed His call of death to self (“Take up your cross and follow Me”) with the gift of life in Christ: “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it” (Matthew 16:25-26).got ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Saint Steven]

This is where we disagree how is being a disciple not a salvation issue when Jesus refused many and they turned away when they considered the " Cost" of being a disciple ie a follower of Jesus ?

You keep changing horses midstream. - lol

Initially we were discussing which doctrines are essential for salvation.
Then you wanted to add discipleship (as a church program) to your top three list.
Now you are changing that to "being" a disciple, and the cost of discipleship as a salvation issue.

Looks like you are trying to add a trailer to your backpack essentials. - lol

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You keep changing horses midstream. - lol

Initially we were discussing which doctrines are essential for salvation.
Then you wanted to add discipleship (as a church program) to your top three list.
Now you are changing that to "being" a disciple, and the cost of discipleship as a salvation issue.

Looks like you are trying to add a trailer to your backpack essentials. - lol

discipleship is not a "church" program its COMMANDED by Jesus. Its the starting point. Try reading my post. Its part of the GOSPEL message by Jesus. Its His requirement not mine.

 

[Saint Steven]

Following Jesus is easy when life runs smoothly; our true commitment to Him is revealed during trials. Jesus assured us that trials will come to His followers (John 16:33). Discipleship demands sacrifice, and Jesus never hid that cost.

In Luke 9:57-62, three people seemed willing to follow Jesus. When Jesus questioned them further, their commitment was half-hearted at best. They failed to count the cost of following Him. None was willing to take up his cross and crucify upon it his own interests.

Therefore, Jesus appeared to dissuade them. How different from the typical Gospel presentation! How many people would respond to an altar call that went, “Come follow Jesus, and you may face the loss of friends, family, reputation, career, and possibly even your life”? The number of false converts would likely decrease! Such a call is what Jesus meant when He said, “Take up your cross and follow Me.”

If you wonder if you are ready to take up your cross, consider these questions:
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing some of your closest friends?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means alienation from your family?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means the loss of your reputation?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your job?
• Are you willing to follow Jesus if it means losing your life?

In some places of the world, these consequences are reality. But notice the questions are phrased, “Are you willing?” Following Jesus doesn’t necessarily mean all these things will happen to you, but are you willing to take up your cross? If there comes a point in your life where you are faced with a choice—Jesus or the comforts of this life—which will you choose?

Commitment to Christ means taking up your cross daily, giving up your hopes, dreams, possessions, even your very life if need be for the cause of Christ. Only if you willingly take up your cross may you be called His disciple (Luke 14:27). The reward is worth the price. Jesus followed His call of death to self (“Take up your cross and follow Me”) with the gift of life in Christ: “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it” (Matthew 16:25-26).got ?

hope this helps !!!

I think the nursery workers at church have given up their life to follow Jesus. Changing diapers when they could be listening to an edifying sermon. Puts the rest of us to shame. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

discipleship is not a "church" program its COMMANDED by Jesus. Its the starting point. Try reading my post. Its part of the GOSPEL message by Jesus. Its His requirement not mine.

You can see how challenging it is to find agreement on the black and white issues.

What would you say are the gray areas? Where some believe one way and others another way, and it really matters not. Mode of baptism? Style of worship?

 

[Saint Steven]

discipleship is not a "church" program its COMMANDED by Jesus.

Here is why I thought you meant a church program. (your last sentence below)

Jesus is YHWH said: ↑
Are not we told to show thyself approved as one who accurately handles the word of God ?

I see this as the problem at its core or foundation. Where is the discipleship process in the church ?

 

[Saint Steven]

You can see how challenging it is to find agreement on the black and white issues.

What would you say are the gray areas? Where some believe one way and others another way, and it really matters not. Mode of baptism? Style of worship?

@Jesus is YHWH
Here's a couple I asked you about earlier.

Would you question the salvation of someone because their doctrinal opinions on the Ascension and 2nd Coming didn't align with yours? There are probably plenty of options on 2nd Coming beliefs. Rapture, or no? If so, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib or pan-trib?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Here is why I thought you meant a church program. (your last sentence below)

Jesus is YHWH said: ↑
Are not we told to show thyself approved as one who accurately handles the word of God ?

I see this as the problem at its core or foundation. Where is the discipleship process in the church ?

I see what you meant. The NT is written to believers who are members of the church, the body of Christ. Does that help clarify ?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

@Jesus is YHWH
Here's a couple I asked you about earlier.

Would you question the salvation of someone because their doctrinal opinions on the Ascension and 2nd Coming didn't align with yours? There are probably plenty of options on 2nd Coming beliefs. Rapture, or no? If so, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib or pan-trib?

I was listening to the message from Ravi Zacharias in the Mormon Church the past hour.

Ascension yes but not eschatology. Just to clarify once again I'm talking about His Bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming. Not the timing of the end times but His Person- Still fully God, fully man.

 

[Saint Steven]

I see what you meant. The NT is written to believers who are members of the church, the body of Christ. Does that help clarify ?

Actually I thought you were addressing what you see as a problem in the church today. And I agree. But it's not a salvation issue. IMHO

 

[Saint Steven]

I was listening to the message from Ravi Zacharias in the Mormon Church the past hour.

Ascension yes but not eschatology. Just to clarify once again I'm talking about His Bodily Resurrection, Ascension and 2nd Coming. Not the timing of the end times but His Person- Still fully God, fully man.

Ah, I see the creedal angle. Yes, I agree.
Was raised from the dead, ascended on high, and will return to judge the quick and the dead. (from memory) Important info. But not salvation issue if only a lack of knowledge. Willful denial with full knowledge would indicate a problem. Yes.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Ah, I see the creedal angle. Yes, I agree.
Was raised from the dead, ascended on high, and will return to judge the quick and the dead. (from memory) Important info. But not salvation issue if only a lack of knowledge. Willful denial with full knowledge would indicate a problem. Yes.

Unfortunately this medium is harder to communicate than in person and sometimes it takes several go arounds to see what the other person is saying. But that how online forums work and in this case patience is indeed a virtue.

 

[Saint Steven]

Unfortunately this medium is harder to communicate than in person and sometimes it takes several go arounds to see what the other person is saying. But that how online forums work and in this case patience is indeed a virtue.

I love you, bro.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I love you, bro.

ditto

 

[mikeforjesus]

I am convinced more that the captives of sodom refers to those who sodom was their native land but they have no land now they left before the destruction if the captives of sodom sin was complete they would have died before being given an opportunity to repent but some were given opportunity to repent.
Perhaps also not everyone destroyed in sodom was not saved for there were children who are just in a ungodly environment and they probably would not grow up knowing how to be very righteous though they were righteous for there were some older people who may have been righteous but not righteous enough to preserve their land. But Jesus says if the works Christ did had been done in sodom they would have repented so those who rejected Christ would have worse judgement but they still needed to repent and not willingly reject what they could know so all still must believe in Christ

 

[mikeforjesus]

sodom and her daughters refers to when God shows mercy to other nations who lived in a similar manner to sodomites but their sin is not complete as they would choose to repent and turn to the Lord unlike sodom who never repented

Sodom daughters are the other sins the nations learned after being as sinful as sodom

the age to come is eternal it is also translated world and those who are not forgiven can’t be made whole later in that age as those who are forgiven

The last enemy destroyed is death

That means all that makes one not fully alive in Christ shall cease when evil no longer exists in heaven

 

[mikeforjesus]

I thought maybe there would be a millennial reign on this earth but now I think it is a spiritual reign on the new earth after this world is destroyed by fire at the second coming I believe during the tribulation there will be a number of people protected from the tribulation who believe or believed but some will not be who are not worthy but they can only be saved through dying for Christ. Even those who are protected don’t know when Christ will come and need oil. After the great tribulation and the antichrist is destroyed I think there will be millennial reign it will include the saved Jews and gentiles some others will they try to convert in the millennium maybe who never heard the gospel or knew of Israel but wanted the truth I thought maybe there is a rule on millennium perhaps all will go to millennium but not have opportunity to be saved then as it says the holy city will be attacked after 1000 years are expired I believe it is symbolic for long time after first resurrection but I suppose all will be resurrected onto a earth first perhaps in the millennium some will be born who existed before and didn’t get a chance to hear the gospel they will not have their memories and they will hear it others will be raised who rejected the gospel who the devil will deceive so as to fight the saints and God will overcome them to show the saints His power I wrote before some say David will be there in the end times but I don’t think so anymore I think it will be Jesus as He said He will sit on the throne of His glory Over the tribes of Israel and that is in millennium


Because the Old Testament says that the Jews will live many days without king or sacrifice then they will realise when their false messiah stops the covenant of sacrifices that messiah will never come so they will seek David their king maybe David will be one of the 2 witnesses the deliverer that comes from Zion but I don’t think so as I think the prophecy is messianic referring to messiah as it says he will rule forever I suppose he could be 1 of 2 witnesses but I don’t think so as we know that is the function of the messiah who alone will rule forever but it must not be on this earth because psalm 45 says messiah will not live here forever his kingdom is in heaven or it refers to seeking the messiah prophesied by David to come who it is Jesus who is the branch of David but it says this david will be guiding the whole house of Israel and it refers to him as shepherd but David can not be the messiah or Shepherd so it must be the messiah who is shepherd because David said the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool the Lord will send the rod of your strength out of Zion rule in the midst of your enemies they will be footstools that is they will be forced to bow to Him


He is not an earthly prince resuming temple sacrifices but a priest forever according to the Order of Melchizedek that means not from the tribe of Levi that wasn’t established yet. That was before Abraham was tested and he received the promise that all would be blessed through his seed. God blessed Abraham that through his seed all the nations will be blessed that can not be unless it is Christ and through faith in Him because people were not blessed under the law as they were sometimes without knowledge of the law and they didn’t have much blessings the bible also says the seed of the woman will crush the serpent head and that was mentioned to remove the original sin which seed of the woman could take away sins but Christ.