Using waste paper to combat global warming.

[OldWiseGuy]

The ever-growing mountains of waste paper could be bleached, shredded, then released into the atmosphere to reflect sunlight back into space. Commercial airplanes could be engaged to release this paper chaff as they virtually circle every part of the globe. The chaff would drift virtually unnoticed back to earth where it would quickly decompose.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Maybe but these kinds of recycling things are not affective if you are worried about global warming / climate change. They really are only good at preserving some kind of mineral element in the event of running out of it, and that has not been a problem so far. (This is because we tend to use fossil fuels to do, make etc. the stuff for these efforts, and the benefits they reap are not strong compared to what it takes to construct, process etc. the green thing.)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Maybe but these kinds of recycling things are not affective if you are worried about global warming / climate change. They really are only good at preserving some kind of mineral element in the event of running out of it, and that has not been a problem so far. (This is because we tend to use fossil fuels to do, make etc. the stuff for these efforts, and the benefits they reap are not strong compared to what it takes to construct, process etc. the green thing.)

Not sure what this has to do with my idea.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Not sure what this has to do with my idea.

It's not obvious? How are you gathering this stuff up and implementing it? Using electric power? Gas running machines etc? How much carbon emissions are you going to generate doing this?

I had a pastor/priest friend I knew who worked for a recycling company for years. It was a well known fact that the whole process of recycling those materials was more costly and fossil fuel intensive than simply mining and manufacturing them. (Something I remember also checking out on the web after that the discussion.) The discussion by the way, came up organically from him throwing an aluminum can or glass bottle in the trash vs. putting it in the recycling bin and his wife chiding him about it.


By the way this same phenomenon is related to other Green things like the benefits reaped by Electric vehicles, wind mills, solar farms and other green power plants etc.

 

[d taylor]

I like sunlight (especially in the winter) and do not want it reflected away.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I like sunlight (especially in the winter) and do not want it reflected away.

I second this especially moving to a colder state, PA, than the previous states I lived in, California and NC.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It's not obvious? How are you gathering this stuff up and implementing it? Using electric power? Gas running machines etc? How much carbon emissions are you going to generate doing this?

I had a pastor/priest friend I knew who worked for a recycling company for years. It was a well known fact that the whole process of recycling those materials was more costly and fossil fuel intensive than simply mining and manufacturing them. (Something I remember also checking out on the web after that the discussion.) The discussion by the way, came up organically from him throwing an aluminum can or glass bottle in the trash vs. putting it in the recycling bin and his wife chiding him about it.


By the way this same phenomenon is related to other Green things like the benefits reaped by Electric vehicles, wind mills, solar farms and other green power plants etc.

My idea isn't to recycle paper but to use it up as a solar reflecting material. We should try to think of ways that such ideas might work, not reasons why they won't. Our leaders are in mental gridlock over these problems, we shouldn't be.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I like sunlight (especially in the winter) and do not want it reflected away.

We're dealing with the fate of humankind here.

Where there is sufficient snow cover the program would be suspended.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

My idea isn't to recycle paper but to use it up as a solar reflecting material.

Their still is the same basic problem. You mention using commercial air planes to release it etc. Is this when they are flying passengers etc. ?

There is a basic physics problems one of the basic laws that an effect cannot be greater than it's cause. The whole process of loading commercial planes with the chaff, flying them etc. the carbon emissions etc. is likely to be astronomical compared to the benefit. Now if we had giant magic flying carpets that used no fuel whatsoever there probably would be some benefit to this.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Their still is the same basic problem. You mention using commercial air planes to release it etc. Is this when they are flying passengers etc. ?

There is a basic physics problems one of the basic laws that an effect cannot be greater than it's cause. The whole process of loading commercial planes with the chaff, flying them etc. the carbon emissions etc. is likely to be astronomical compared to the benefit. Now if we had giant magic flying carpets that used no fuel whatsoever there probably would be some benefit to this.

Each plane would jettison a small amount of chaff on each high altitude flight. Small amounts X thousands of flights can be quite effective at little cost. Military cargo aircraft could be quite useful as well as their training flights often involve little if any cargo. They could release massive amounts of paper chaff at little extra cost.

Many commercial cargo aircraft fly 'near-empty' these days. They could be used as well, although 'weight and balance' factors would have to be addressed.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Each plane would jettison a small amount of chaff on each high altitude flight. Small amounts X thousands of flights can be quite effective at little cost.

That's interesting I wonder how long it takes a small particle put out at high altitude to float back down to earth with the various wind gusts etc.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's interesting I wonder how long it takes a small particle put out at high altitude to float back down to earth with the various wind gusts etc.

Such chaff would likely remain longer than say, volcanic ash, which remains up to weeks depending on atmospheric conditions.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Such chaff would likely remain longer than say, volcanic ash, which remains up to weeks depending on atmospheric conditions.

As much as I'm doubtful on the positive side of things of global warming etc. If this is affective you got the possibility of too much of a good thing. Scientists of today suspect that the Bubonic plague was set off by a cascade of events where their was a volcanic eruption that led to global cooling that caused a lot of problems like famine as far as crops because the winter lasted much longer than it was suppose to due to the ash in the atmosphere. But that also affected the rats in Ethiopia, somehow this bacteria in their gut prevented them from digesting food at lower temperatures, but made them ravenously hungry, and that led to the Bubonic plague spreading through Europe of the Middle Ages.

 

[SkyWriting]

The ever-growing mountains of waste paper could be bleached, shredded, then released into the atmosphere to reflect sunlight back into space. Commercial airplanes could be engaged to release this paper chaff as they virtually circle every part of the globe. The chaff would drift virtually unnoticed back to earth where it would quickly decompose.

The warming of the globe will increase cloud formation and accomplish the same thing naturally with less dust in my driveway.

 

[d taylor]

I second this especially moving to a colder state, PA, than the previous states I lived in, California and NC.

That will be a weather/temp change, good luck

I am in Mississippi, and i do dislike cold weather (40 and below), so any help from the sun to warm up a cold day is much appreciated.

 

[d taylor]

We're dealing with the fate of humankind here.

Where there is sufficient snow cover the program would be suspended.

Snow, i just want a little warm sunlight on a 40 degree day.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As much as I'm doubtful on the positive side of things of global warming etc. If this is affective you got the possibility of too much of a good thing. Scientists of today suspect that the Bubonic plague was set off by a cascade of events where their was a volcanic eruption that led to global cooling that caused a lot of problems like famine as far as crops because the winter lasted much longer than it was suppose to due to the ash in the atmosphere. But that also affected the rats in Ethiopia, somehow this bacteria in their gut prevented them from digesting food at lower temperatures, but made them ravenously hungry, and that led to the Bubonic plague spreading through Europe of the Middle Ages.

Unlike volcanoes my program can be controlled.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The warming of the globe will increase cloud formation and accomplish the same thing naturally with less dust in my driveway.

In deference to your driveway much of my paper chaff would be released over the oceans.