Assyrians on Sabbath and Sunday Worship

[Adventist Heretic]

I'm trying to get something very specific here. By observing the text we can see there's an order and a progression to the commandments.

Notice the first commandment says God is first.

The second commandment says you're the represent God properly. You're not to misrepresent him in physical form or ascribe to any creature his attributes or as representing him.

The Third commandment says there is a penalty for this. If you misrepresent God, God's going to punish you.

Now here's where it gets interesting Tall. The commandments never specifically States how you were supposed to represent God, unless you ascribe to the Sabbath day the means of doing this. "Remember" is a call to represent God properly. By calling to memory the things that are contained in the Sabbath command. We are called to remember the God of the garden. For this is who God is, this is how he's revealed and this is how he uses his power.

So what is it about the garden that specifically demonstrates who God is, his character if you will?

First of all it tells us God has power. He has mastery over the elements. He can bring order out of chaos. He can bring life out of non life. Implied in the statement is that he can bring order out of your chaos and give you life out of a non life that you have.

Second it says that he uses his power for good. The phrase it is good is repeated over and over and over again in the creation account and concludes with things being very good. implying those in power must use that power for some benefit and value.

The Genesis account then tells us that he designs an environment for us that has abundance and variety. Both in plant life and an animal life and sets us up in a position of success. To prosper, on biblical language be fruitful and multiply. Those in power must use power to benefit us set us up for success.

After creating an environment for life to be sustained and setting us up for success, then goes on to create a healthy relationship modeled after himself. And commands us to increase and multiply in that relationship while giving us all the tools necessary to achieve that goal. Those in power must use it that way as well

That is what remembering is about that is what you're supposed to remember. Now why is that important, because what comes next is the giving of power and authority to people. Notice the giving of power only comes after one has a proper understanding of who God is. Since our parents are the first authority figures and we learn about God through them, the Sabbath command is a reminder to people in power that God wants good things for them and they are to use the power in the manner in which God used it himself for the benefit of humanity.

Before we move on there's one other aspect that we must look at and that is the seventh day at creation. Many critics have pointed out that there is no evening and morning formula at the end of day 7. They have concluded that somehow this negates the Sabbath day in Exodus or that there was no repeated weekly cycle. This could not be further from the truth. The truth is the lack of evening and morning on the seventh day simply stating that the sovereignty of God is never ended. It is continual and is perpetual. Thus the seventh day becomes associated with his sovereignty and his rulership and his character and all the blessings and benefits that come with him. Returning to the seventh day is a return to the blessings and the benefits that he brings. The Sabbath command in Exodus 20, thus becomes a weekly vacation, where the burdens of work ,which was a construct of the Fall, is undone and one is allowed to experience the benefits of eating and the benefits of God's character and God's ownership even while Satan is still ruler of the world. Sabbath places a limit on how much the devil can abuse us. At least once a week my people will have some time to enjoy their life, thus a vacation from their labors.

The question that one must ask in dealing with this perpetual nature of the Sabbath is simply this....

Has God's character ever changed?
Has His desires for us changed?
How's the model of the garden been altered in some way shape or form?

If the answer is yes to any one of those you have to ask when and where did those things change.

When did God change?
When did his model change?
Did his desires change?

IF you say that he is fundamentally unchanged, then you would have to ask the question why would he need to change the Sabbath day? And what does the change of the Sabbath day mean it'll light of Revelation and the image of the beast. You see the conflict between the image of God and the image of the beast being played out in the book of Revelation, And a call to worship Him who made "Heaven and Earth" , that is a direct reference to the covenant made in the garden. Heaven and Earth almost always refer to the Garden of Eden.

We can look at some other technical aspects of the calendar, such as how the calendar repeats outside the garden. Or the fact that God was not around when they were being attempted demonstrating that he was not always there. He created fully grown adults sent them out in a job and then took off. With the promise to return. It was never his intention to be with Adam and Eve 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Now some have speculated that he returned every evening and some of speculated that it was once a week. After studying the calendar out I think there's something about an 85% chance that he returned once a week it was on the the seventh day. Scpture does not specifically say that, but observation and knowing how the calendar works leads me to that conclusion. Now even if it doesn't go that way and he returns every evening, his presence is still associated with his sovereignty and the era of his absolute rule, the seventh day out of Exodus is a memorialization of the appointed time of his return.

tall you there

 

[Adventist Heretic]

I will look over this for a while.

Yesterday before we started this conversation I was considering that the week comes from creation, and is referenced pre-Moses in the account of Jacob's wedding feast.

you there?

 

[tall73]

you there?

Yes, but still going through Genesis and looking at calendar information, as well as other people's takes on it. Will probably be a while. I like to consider new information apart from the back and forth nature of these boards first, then we can get into it.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Yes, but still going through Genesis and looking at calendar information, as well as other people's takes on it. Will probably be a while. I like to consider new information apart from the back and forth nature of these boards first, then we can get into it.

i am looking at the some of the terms in OT and Genesis / Job that refer and relate to boundary's that existed before the 10 commandments. there are 2 words to consider.

 

[The Liturgist]

every on of your examples assumes rest is the contrast to work or effort, for example a memorial following his rest at creation. Well that begs the question why did he rest? Was he tired? or does it mean something else?

Well, He rested for he had just been crucified and was dead.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Well, He rested for he had just been crucified and was dead.

i am implying that rest means more then just being tired. it has the connection of creating an environment for peace and prosperity

 

[AdamjEdgar]

A slight side note...in answer to the oft quoted claim Peter or other apostles gave the authority to change the Sabbath...
Acts 17:11
"the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true*.

What century do you suppose this was? It was prior to A.D 70... so first century but after Jesus return to heaven!

2 things we know for certain
1. The apostle Paul followed Peter
2. The scriptures being talked about here would have absolutely been the Old Testament Jewish scrolls...the Berean's used said writings to ensure that what the apostle were preaching to them was consistent with scriptures they already had in their possession. These would have been writings that stood the test of time...very definately not new age crazy ideas and definately not new age writings...they were testing for consistency..hence clearly the new age was being tested against their trusted Old Testament
This means that everything Paul spoke had to agree with Old Testament...including the commandments, and in particular the day of worship (the 4th commandment Sabbath). If Paul's teachings disagreed with already established laws, the Berean's would not have accepted the message and teachings.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

A slight side note...in answer to the oft quoted claim Peter or other apostles gave the authority to change the Sabbath...
Acts 17:11
"the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true*.

What century do you suppose this was? It was prior to A.D 70... so first century but after Jesus return to heaven!

2 things we know for certain
1. The apostle Paul followed Peter
2. The scriptures being talked about here would have absolutely been the Old Testament Jewish scrolls...the Berean's used said writings to ensure that what the apostle were preaching to them was consistent with scriptures they already had in their possession. These would have been writings that stood the test of time...very definately not new age crazy ideas and definately not new age writings...they were testing for consistency..hence clearly the new age was being tested against their trusted Old TestamentThis means that everything Paul spoke had to agree with Old Testament...including the commandments, and in particular the day of worship (the 4th commandment Sabbath). If Paul's teachings disagreed with already established laws, the Berean's would not have accepted the message and teachings.

the claim that peter had authority to changes things is based on Christ giving him the keys. Keys signify authority to bind and loose, open and close. Isa 22:22; Matt 16:19; Rev 1:18; Rev 3:7; Rev 9:1,2; Rev 20:1. Keys can also be passed down from one person to another, implying succession.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

the claim that peter had authority to changes things is based on Christ giving him the keys. Keys signify authority to bind and loose, open and close. Isa 22:22; Matt 16:19; Rev 1:18; Rev 3:7; Rev 9:1,2; Rev 20:1. Keys can also be passed down from one person to another, implying succession.

ah that is a classic mistake in interpretation...let me give a real world example (i could give a number of them actually)...

If i were a company boss, had spent years of my life building up a business from a concept in my mind, making it very clear to all of my employees that i do not ever change my rules/laws nor do i ever give authority to another to make changes to said rules/laws (isaiah 44), one would absolutely expect that even though i pass off the keys to my company (which i remain in ultimate control of) to another person, that individual must fulfill my wishes in running the company in my temporary absence!

So, would one expect therefore given the above example, that I (the boss) would never sanction said individual coming into my company, in my absence, changing all the rules that i had spend a lifetime laying out!

God gave Peter the keys yes, but they were given to fulfill existing wishes...to carry on the task that had been modeled to him by Jesus...not to change them!

 

[klutedavid]

I got to reading a bit on Church history lately, especially the Apostolic Fathers in light of a Messianic Facebook friends posting. And in my internet searches stumbled on this article, because I was interested interested in things like articles written about such things as Sabbath keeping and other kinds of Torah observance, by some of the ancient Churches that actually descended from "Jewish Christians" like the various Syriac Churches, the Ethiopians etc.

I found this Church of the East article one of the better writings on the subject. It is not all inclusive, It basically is written almost like a Catechism type writing. If I was writing it I would mention more Church Fathers than the Didache, and would talk about why Sunday is important in terms of the 8th day Biblical typology, but its thorough.


Observing the Sabbath – Saturday v. Sunday - Assyrian Church News

Very good article and the article covered the main points regarding Sunday observance.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Very good article and the article covered the main points regarding Sunday observance.

an interesting read however one huge fundamentally flawed reasoning behind Sunday worship...

Surely the day on which such great events transpired, it is only right we should honor appropriately and, seeing that at the resurrection all worldly labors shall cease, and all shall return to the worship of God, and be engaged in contemplation of His unutterable mysteries
​

In response, i quote the following from the Bible...

Hebrews 11:4 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous when God gave approval to his gifts.

1 Samuel 15:22 But Samuel replied, “What is more pleasing to the LORD: your burnt offerings and sacrifices or your obedience to his voice? Listen! Obedience is better than sacrifice, and submission is better than offering the fat of rams.

It is utter foolishness to attempt to put moral reasoning and rationalise such things in the terms put forward by that publication!

Let me also further this by stating the following about the early church...there is very credible evidence that the entire reason for the change of day of worship was in fact to avoid persecution from the Romans by the early Christian church.

The members saw the persecution of the troublesome Jews at the hands of Ceasar and changed their day of worship in the hope they would be left alone! It comes as no surprise that the day of worship just so happened to change around the same time (ie late first-early second century) as the city of Jerusalem was ransacked by the Romans in A.D 70. Also, we know that it was about this same period in history that this Sunday worship belief found its way down into Alexandria in Northern Egypt.

Finally, could i also put this forward...when we think of redemption, it came in the following order Obediance, Sacrifice, Redemption.

God expects us to obey his word. Without that obedience the sacrifice is worthless, and there can be no redemption! (As Cain and King Saul both found out the hard way).

And Cain certainly was not asked to follow Jewish customs, God gave this to Adam and Eve directly more than a thousand years prior Moses!

God rejected Cains offering because Cain rejected Gods word and did not obey. He tried to put the moral spin on it saying to himself "i will offer the firstfruits of my own labours and that will be good enough!"​

 

[Adventist Heretic]

an interesting read however one huge fundamentally flawed reasoning behind Sunday worship...

Surely the day on which such great events transpired, it is only right we should honor appropriately and, seeing that at the resurrection all worldly labors shall cease, and all shall return to the worship of God, and be engaged in contemplation of His unutterable mysteries
​

In response, i quote the following from the Bible...

Hebrews 11:4 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous when God gave approval to his gifts.

1 Samuel 15:22 But Samuel replied, “What is more pleasing to the LORD: your burnt offerings and sacrifices or your obedience to his voice? Listen! Obedience is better than sacrifice, and submission is better than offering the fat of rams.

It is utter foolishness to attempt to put moral reasoning and rationalise such things in the terms put forward by that publication!

Let me also further this by stating the following about the early church...there is very credible evidence that the entire reason for the change of day of worship was in fact to avoid persecution from the Romans by the early Christian church.

The members saw the persecution of the troublesome Jews at the hands of Ceasar and changed their day of worship in the hope they would be left alone! It comes as no surprise that the day of worship just so happened to change around the same time (ie late first-early second century) as the city of Jerusalem was ransacked by the Romans in A.D 70. Also, we know that it was about this same period in history that this Sunday worship belief found its way down into Alexandria in Northern Egypt.

Finally, could i also put this forward...when we think of redemption, it came in the following order Obediance, Sacrifice, Redemption.

God expects us to obey his word. Without that obedience the sacrifice is worthless, and there can be no redemption! (As Cain and King Saul both found out the hard way).

And Cain certainly was not asked to follow Jewish customs, God gave this to Adam and Eve directly more than a thousand years prior Moses!

God rejected Cains offering because Cain rejected Gods word and did not obey. He tried to put the moral spin on it saying to himself "i will offer the firstfruits of my own labours and that will be good enough!"​

this is so false, and such bad history

 

[prodromos]

Let me also further this by stating the following about the early church...there is very credible evidence that the entire reason for the change of day of worship was in fact to avoid persecution from the Romans by the early Christian church.

There is no credible evidence backing this assertion.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

There is no credible evidence backing this assertion.

Yeah its funny these people making these assertions when you know they have read very little if any of historical sources, like the apostolic fathers, church fathers, ancient historians etc.

But a fun side note, when it comes to the Assyrian Church of the East something like this did happen. They conformed their church to Zoroastrianism after nearly 2 centuries of persecution of having their patriarchs assasinated.


Synod of Beth Lapat

 

[Adventist Heretic]

There is no credible evidence backing this assertion.

you are right because it was Paul when he stop preaching in the synagouge in Ephesus

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Icedragon, as you are an SDA...perhaps you would be interested in the following Doctoral Dissertation from Robert McIver (Avondale) about this very topic.

I completed my own degree in Education at that institution and spent a semester in lectures with Dr Norm Young (who is quoted extensively by that research paper).

The paper is titled When, Where, and Why did the Change from Sabbath to Sunday Worship Take Place in the Early Church? It is a very interesting read.

https://research.avondale.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1105&context=theo_papers

You will find in the above paper that neither Jesus nor any of the apostles are associated with changing the day of worship. this practice did not start until after the last of them had died...most likely in the second century (not the first) and ratified in the 4th during Constantine's reign.

there are a number of ideas put forward about the changing of the Sabbath. A few of these are as follows:

1. Catholic church did it simply to exercise their power (which some Adventists claim is fulfillment of prophecy in Daniel and Revelation concerning end times)
2. Constantine ratified it in the 4th century to unify Christians and therefore increase his influence politically over the Eastern Empire by also getting the church onside
3. The practice started in Rome and spread to Alexandria as a result of Christians wanting to distance themselves from the troublesome Jews who were at the centre of the A.D 70 ransacking of Jerusalem!

I do agree that the it is somewhat a combination of all three of these, however, I agree more with Bacchiocci's view. It is absolutely consistent and logical that it started with the Christians trying to distance themselves from the Jews because this is also tied to the significant event of A.D 70 that Jesus himself also foretold during his ministry.

Samuel Bacchiocci for those who may not know ..."was a Seventh-day Adventist author and theologian, best known for his work on the Sabbath in Christianity, particularly in the historical work From Sabbath to Sunday, based on his doctoral thesis from the Pontifical Gregorian University." wikipedia

He is widely credited as being I think from memory at the time he gained access...as the only non catholic scholar to have ever been given intimate access to the Vatican archive. My understanding, not that its particularly relevant, is that no non catholic scholar since has been given that kind of access.

 

[prodromos]

He is widely credited as being I think from memory at the time he gained access...as the only non catholic scholar to have ever been given intimate access to the Vatican archive. My understanding, not that its particularly relevant, is that no non catholic scholar since has been given that kind of access.

Admission request

The Vatican archives

The Vatican secret archives are located in the Vatican City. These archives are under the ownership of the serving Pope until death or resignation. The Vatican secrets mainly contains the state papers, correspondence, papal account books, plus many other documents that have been accumulated by the church over the centuries.Originally, the Vatican Secret Archives were in the Vatican Library but they were separated in the 17th century under the orders of Pope Paul V. The two were separated so as to limit the scholars’ access to the documents. They remained closed until 1881 when Pope Leo XIII opened them to researchers. The Vatican archives obtained the name Vatican secrets archives to show that the archives are private and that they are personal property to the Pope and do not belong to any other department of the Roman Curia.The Vatican secrets contain a lot of information about the governance, management and activities surrounding the Catholic Church. The information has been conserved and it is so large that the Vatican Secret Archives are said to contain approximately 84 km of shelving. This should be among the largest shelving under one room, in the world. The volumes are indexed in each catalog for easier accessibility. It is said that the Vatican secrets contain documents that are dated back to the end of the eighth century.This being an area that contains vital information about Vatican, its access is limited and it is not just anybody who can access the archives. An entry card to the Vatican secrets must be applied for by qualified applicants including qualified scholars from institutions of higher learning undertaking scientific researches and who have adequate knowledge in archival research. The scholars should present an introductory letter by either a qualified person in the historical research field or a recognized research institute. The applicants also need to fill in their personal information including name, address and telephone number plus the purpose of the research they are undertaking. It is after this process that you can obtain an entry card to the Vatican secret Archives. However, undergraduates are not admitted. Therefore it is not anybody who can have access to the Vatican Secret Archives. Normally, the documents of the Vatican Secret Archives are made available to the public after a period of seventy five years. However, there are sections of the Vatican Secrets that are not open to the public and it is only the Vatican that has access to these sections. Currently, Vatican has also granted permission to selected journalists and members of the public to have access to the Vatican Secrets.Ever since the Vatican Secret Archives were established, they have had several cardinal archivists and prefects. The full names of these cardinal archivists and prefects can be obtained on the Vatican Secret Archives’ website. Today, some of the documentation of the Vatican Archives has been digitalized for easier consultation by various organs of the Roman Curia. Therefore if you want to have access to the extraordinary historical value contained in the Vatican Secret Archives of the Roman Curia, ensure that you have all the qualifications needed for acquiring the entry card.​

 

[klutedavid]

an interesting read however one huge fundamentally flawed reasoning behind Sunday worship...

Surely the day on which such great events transpired, it is only right we should honor appropriately and, seeing that at the resurrection all worldly labors shall cease, and all shall return to the worship of God, and be engaged in contemplation of His unutterable mysteries
​

In response, i quote the following from the Bible...

Hebrews 11:4 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous when God gave approval to his gifts.

1 Samuel 15:22 But Samuel replied, “What is more pleasing to the LORD: your burnt offerings and sacrifices or your obedience to his voice? Listen! Obedience is better than sacrifice, and submission is better than offering the fat of rams.

It is utter foolishness to attempt to put moral reasoning and rationalise such things in the terms put forward by that publication!

Let me also further this by stating the following about the early church...there is very credible evidence that the entire reason for the change of day of worship was in fact to avoid persecution from the Romans by the early Christian church.

The members saw the persecution of the troublesome Jews at the hands of Ceasar and changed their day of worship in the hope they would be left alone! It comes as no surprise that the day of worship just so happened to change around the same time (ie late first-early second century) as the city of Jerusalem was ransacked by the Romans in A.D 70. Also, we know that it was about this same period in history that this Sunday worship belief found its way down into Alexandria in Northern Egypt.

Finally, could i also put this forward...when we think of redemption, it came in the following order Obediance, Sacrifice, Redemption.

God expects us to obey his word. Without that obedience the sacrifice is worthless, and there can be no redemption! (As Cain and King Saul both found out the hard way).

And Cain certainly was not asked to follow Jewish customs, God gave this to Adam and Eve directly more than a thousand years prior Moses!

God rejected Cains offering because Cain rejected Gods word and did not obey. He tried to put the moral spin on it saying to himself "i will offer the firstfruits of my own labours and that will be good enough!"​

Christ arrived to fulfill the law, Jesus was the only one that was able to fulfill that law.

The Old Covenant law became obsolete once the blood of the Christ had been shed.

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice which introduced a perfect New Covenant.

We no longer abide by the written law for we now have the law of Christ, written in our hearts.

Not the letter but the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Icedragon, as you are an SDA...perhaps you would be interested in the following Doctoral Dissertation from Robert McIver (Avondale) about this very topic.

I completed my own degree in Education at that institution and spent a semester in lectures with Dr Norm Young (who is quoted extensively by that research paper).

The paper is titled When, Where, and Why did the Change from Sabbath to Sunday Worship Take Place in the Early Church? It is a very interesting read.

https://research.avondale.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1105&context=theo_papers

You will find in the above paper that neither Jesus nor any of the apostles are associated with changing the day of worship. this practice did not start until after the last of them had died...most likely in the second century (not the first) and ratified in the 4th during Constantine's reign.

there are a number of ideas put forward about the changing of the Sabbath. A few of these are as follows:

1. Catholic church did it simply to exercise their power (which some Adventists claim is fulfillment of prophecy in Daniel and Revelation concerning end times)
2. Constantine ratified it in the 4th century to unify Christians and therefore increase his influence politically over the Eastern Empire by also getting the church onside
3. The practice started in Rome and spread to Alexandria as a result of Christians wanting to distance themselves from the troublesome Jews who were at the centre of the A.D 70 ransacking of Jerusalem!

I do agree that the it is somewhat a combination of all three of these, however, I agree more with Bacchiocci's view. It is absolutely consistent and logical that it started with the Christians trying to distance themselves from the Jews because this is also tied to the significant event of A.D 70 that Jesus himself also foretold during his ministry.

Samuel Bacchiocci for those who may not know ..."was a Seventh-day Adventist author and theologian, best known for his work on the Sabbath in Christianity, particularly in the historical work From Sabbath to Sunday, based on his doctoral thesis from the Pontifical Gregorian University." wikipedia

He is widely credited as being I think from memory at the time he gained access...as the only non catholic scholar to have ever been given intimate access to the Vatican archive. My understanding, not that its particularly relevant, is that no non catholic scholar since has been given that kind of access.

Adam, I have already read the paper. it is incorrect. Bacchiocchi contradicted himself. saying it was changed in 117 ad at the during the Kitos rebellion and then says it was changed by the apostles.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Christ arrived to fulfill the law, Jesus was the only one that was able to fulfill that law.

The Old Covenant law became obsolete once the blood of the Christ had been shed.

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice which introduced a perfect New Covenant.

We no longer abide by the written law for we now have the law of Christ, written in our hearts.

Not the letter but the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

fulfilling the law does not mean the law was done away with...that is an error in interpretation. To fulfill means to complete...to comply with. Jesus complied with the law, he lived up to its expectations...he did not do this so that it would be thrown out. God has clearly said all through the Bible that His statutes and laws do not change (ever).

The wages of sin is death. Without any law, we do not have sin...there is no sin without a moral compass upon which to gauge what sin is. So the law will always remain a vital part of salvation. The only thing that the Jews had very very wrong was their interpretation of the law had become so legalistic it was impossible to be saved...life under the Pharisee and Sadducee's interpretation of the law had become a burden. Jesus demonstrated theirs was the wrong implementation of it.

Adam and Eve's son Able offered his sacrifice to God by faith, Noah entered the ark by faith...salvation by faith existed for thousands of years before Jesus time... Paul's supposed revelation in his writings of salvation by faith was nothing new! Keeping the law does not save us...it is the result of our salvation that we keep the law (it is the fruits of our conversion and faith).

Ever since Adam and Eve were ejected from the garden of eden, we have been saved by faith...salvation by faith in not unique to the New Testament...it existed since the first sin.

Jesus fulfillment of the law was simply a fulfillment of prophecy...ie that the wages of sin is death. In order for man to be saved, a perfect sacrifice had to be made...only Jesus could make that sacrifice. However, it does not mean the law is no longer relevant (Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.)

Salvation has always, and will always have two parts...the faith of Jesus and the law. (i am not saying here that we are saved by the law...that is not my point)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are we not commanded by Jesus to enter into the rest of God and cease from doing our own works on all the days of the week and not just the one?

Yes or no?

Please read post #232

You might want to ask yourself if you do not want to worship our Lord and Savior on the Sabbath day now, are you going to want to on the New Earth and New Heaven Isaiah 66:23. The day we worship our Lord and Savior on the holy day of the Lord thy God from Creation Genesis 2:1-3 is not going to ever change as promised by our Creator Exodus 31:16

 

[Hezekiah81]

There were Jewish brethren who wanted Gentiles to be circumcised. It is in the Bible.

Galatians 6:12-13 Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

In Acts 16 Paul asked Timothy to be circumcised. Timothy was mixed race or mixed religion. Paul was asking him to convert to circumcision in order for him to be more accepted by the Jews.

How many hundreds of millions of Christians ignore the 4th commandment and work on Saturday? Are you not any holier than they because you keep only part of the law, but not all of the law? If you keep all of the law, you might try to kill your neighbors who work on the Sabbath, because the Torah law requires the death penalty for such.

As a Christian you may work or rest when you like. You may not execute people for disobeying Torah Sabbath law.

Haven't you heard, Jesus Christ paid our death penalty and your not under the condemnation of the law if Christ's Spirit indeed dwells in you, but you still have to keep God's commandments. Man doesn't decide what righteous living is God does.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Isn't every day a primary day of worship for the children of God?

God told us to work 6 days and the seventh day we are to rest from our work and keep holy the seventh day Sabbath according to God. Exodus 20:8-11

We worship God everyday, He should be the center of our world but that does not delete the 4th commanded that God set aside and told us to Remember and keep holy. Exodus 20:8

 

[Hezekiah81]

Isn't every day a primary day of worship for the children of God?

God did set-apart one day from the rest.

 

[HIM]

You can be sincere and sincerely wrong.

Yes we can.

 

[The Liturgist]

Yes, I try my absolute best. This is what Jesus quoted from the Old Covenant. Deuteronomy 6:5

We show our love to God when we obey the commandments, not break them according to scripture. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

And those commandments were spoken by out Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and they do not extend to the precise adherence to the Judaic sabbath system - the historic practice of the Christian Church of worshipping on Sunday to commemorate the glorious resurrection of the incarnate word or God, who rested in the tomb on the seventh day, and rose on the next, is entirely in keeping with the Gospel handed down once from the apostles.

 

[Hezekiah81]

I abide in the doctrine of Christ.
What doctrine do you abide within?

God's law and Christ don't contradict each other. I'm sorry I'm not saying you are not a sincere believer in Christ, but there are alot of sincere believers that are being deceived and taught that God's law has been abolished under the new covenant and it is a lie from satan. What is sin: transgression of the torah, Christ didn't come to abolish his law he came to destroy the devil's works which are sin and death. What was an abomination in the old hebrew scriptures is still today and I will continue to walk in God's ways. Man doesn't decide what righteous living is God does.

 

[HIM]

Jesus is my doctor. He has healed me of all sin
from my own works. Isn't that wonderful?

He puts His Laws in our hearts. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(1Pe 2:24 KJV)

 

[BobRyan]

staff edit

1. Not true that every Thursday is the weekly Sabbath or ever will be - no text says that.
2. Not true that the bible term for "every day" is "from Sabbath to Sabbath"
3. Not true that the term "Sabbath" in the NT refers to Thursday

Is 66:23 has TWO cycles "from new moon to new moon AND from Sabbath to Sabbath" -- there is no way to turn that into "EVERY DAY --- AND -- EVERY Day".... That would make no sense.

The Bible uses the term "from YEAR to YEAR" to mean once a year not "every day"

Stick with the Bible - it is a lot easier to make a point stick that way.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And those commandments were spoken by out Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and they do not extend to the precise adherence to the Judaic sabbath system - the historic practice of the Christian Church of worshipping on Sunday to commemorate the glorious resurrection of the incarnate word or God, who rested in the tomb on the seventh day, and rose on the next, is entirely in keeping with the Gospel handed down once from the apostles.

I have asked you this before and I am still waiting for scripture showing that the Holy day of the Lord thy God is on Sunday. Where Jesus deletes the 4th commandment and tells us we are to worship Him after He goes to Heaven on the first day. Where there is scripture that God blessed the first day or made it holy and where in scripture it states on the new Earth and Heaven we will worship our Lord and Savior on a new day and not the Sabbath day like Isaiah 66:23 says.

Until than I will continue to obey God and follow in the footsteps of Jesus who kept the Sabbath and all of His Fathers commandments. John 15:10

 

[BobRyan]

And those commandments were spoken by out Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, and they do not extend to the precise adherence to the Judaic sabbath .

The "context" in all those quotes is Jesus speaking to Jews - so in fact they do apply in that very context.