Assyrians on Sabbath and Sunday Worship

[The Liturgist]

You seem to be missing the whole point of God’s Sabbath. The Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord, not a holy day. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 Making another day the primary day of worship other than the Sabbath demonstrates tradition is valued over the commandment of God. Is it a sin to worship on Sunday? Jesus said when you obey traditions over commandments you worship in vain. Matthew 15:3-9.

God bless.

I didn’t say anything about making Sunday the primary day of worship...

 

[The Liturgist]

every on of your examples assumes rest is the contrast to work or effort, for example a memorial following his rest at creation. Well that begs the question why did he rest? Was he tired? or does it mean something else?

After His passion, He was in fact dead (we can say that God died on the cross because of the principle of Communicatio Idiomatum that Chalcedonian Christology entails, since the humanity and divinity of our Lord are united). So why rest after Creation? Because He would rest in a tomb after His passion.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Because He would rest in a tomb after His passion.

that is bad interpretation. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[The Liturgist]

that is bad interpretation.

Why? What makes it bad? What specific text of Ellen White did I contradict in this instance?

How did you come to that conclusion?

The beliefs of the early Church specifically expressed through comparative liturgics, especially the Byzantine canons and related hymns from Vespers on Good Friday and Matins on Holy Saturday, as well as Coptic, Syriac and other ancient hymns from Holy Week.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Why? What makes it bad? What specific text of Ellen White did I contradict in this instance?

since i don't accept EGW as prophet or a source of authority it is irrelevant.

The beliefs of the early Church specifically expressed through comparative liturgics, especially the Byzantine canons and related hymns from Vespers on Good Friday and Matins on Holy Saturday, as well as Coptic, Syriac and other ancient hymns from Holy Week.

a source & quote would be nice.

 

[tall73]

God obviously felt the need to put it in the 10 commandments Why?
Why is it there to begin with?

Yes, I think that may be helpful to again review the statements regarding the covenant and the ten commandments.

The ten commandments were delivered in the context of the covenant promises:

Exo 19:3 while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;
Exo 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”
Exo 19:7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.
Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

The statement regarding bringing them to Himself, from Egypt, is showing His sovereignty over them, and His deeds done in kindness to them. He is their Redeemer, which is stated as a reason to enter into covenant, and serve Him.

We see this emphasized again when He speaks the commandments, and also in in Deuteronomy 5 in relation to the Sabbath.

God spoke the ten commandments from the mountain.

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exo 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You shall not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You shall not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exo 20:17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”

Bringing the people out of slavery is again referenced as a claim upon them from their Sovereign. The Sabbath seems to play a similar role as the references to bringing from Egypt. He has legitimate rule over them, and more than just them, but over all things as Creator. God is not only Redeemer, but Creator, and they are to serve Him.

The people were afraid following hearing God's voice and asked Moses to not have God speak to them further, but for him to relay other commands.

Exo 20:18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off
Exo 20:19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”
Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.”
Exo 20:21 The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.

God's appearance on the mountain, and speaking of the commandments was meant to test the people, and place fear upon them that they would not sin.

The sabbath command in the Deuteronomy 5 recounting of the ten commandments gives a different rationale, though not a new one as it was contained in the overall rationale for the covenant previously.

Deu 5:12 “‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

This again shows that the Sabbath command is tied to God's sovereignty over the people, and His claim on their lives due to being their redeemer.

The Sabbath is singled out as of utmost importance prior to the giving of the tablets of the testimony, of which they are part:

Exo 31:12 And the LORD said to Moses,
Exo 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

The Sabbath is shown to be prominent even among the ten as a sign that God sanctifies them, and that He is Creator. It is specifically said to be a sign with the house of Israel, and a covenant with them.

This seems to have some parallels to circumcision in the covenant with Abraham. It is not expressly called the sign of the covenant, but is singled out as an obligation above all for Israel as a covenant with the Lord.

In Ezekiel God again singles out the Sabbath as a sign in addition to the law by which one lives, alluding also to Ex. 31, when recounting His relationship to Israel.

Eze 20:10 So I led them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness.
Eze 20:11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live.
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

So based on all the above I would think the Sabbath is a sign given to Israel in the heart of the covenant document, and singled out among the spoken commands of God to Israel, as a continuing sign of God's sovereignty over His people as Creator, Redeemer, and the one who sanctifies them, or makes them holy.

If you have other insights please post them. If there is some agreement as to the purpose then we can discuss the other questions you raise about what happens if the Sabbath is removed from observance, etc.

 

[tall73]

Sorry I respectfully disagree. This is more repetition already addressed with a detailed scriptures response you have not addressed but allow me to explain why from the scriptures for anyone else that might be interested.

I responded to the points where we differ. You already agreed the seventh-day Sabbath is included in Ezekiel 45 in describing the appointed times.. But you claim it is only during other feasts. But the text does not limit it to that. It is one of the appointed times of the Lord on its own, without dependency on the other feasts

When it is stated in Levitical 23 that these sabbath in the Feast days were days of holy convocation it mean that they were not the same as Gods' 4th commandments weekly Sabbath which is simply to rest from secular work and remember the God of creation.

It doesn't say that at all. That is something you had to read in to avoid the implications of it being included in Ezekiel 45 which you admitted to being parallel to Col. 2.

Here is what Leviticus 23 says about the sabbath, before even discussing the other appointed times.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

It does not limit it to being a convocation only when it overlaps with "annual" feasts.

Nor is it so limited in Numbers 28, which we already reviewed, and which discusses the sacrifices:

Num 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
Num 28:10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

In the context of the annual Feast days as well as the calling of holy convocations and the calling out of God's people once a year under the old covenant to a sacred place for a public meeting for the annual Feast days, as posted many times to you now, the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment was an appointed time

The text does not point out that it is only in the context of other convocations that the Sabbath is an appointed time.

This is because Gods' 4th commandment is outside of the Feast days and linked directly into the "seventh day" of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 pointing backwards to the finished work of creation and not forward to things to come.

It points to creation, redemption, and sanctification, not just looking back.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I responded to the points where we differ. You already agreed the seventh-day Sabbath is included in Ezekiel 45 in describing the appointed times.. But you claim it is only during what you are calling "annual feasts." But the text does not limit it to that. It is one of the appointed times of the Lord on its own, without dependency on the other feasts

It doesn't say that at all. That is something you had to read in to avoid the implications of it being included in Ezekiel 45 which you admitted to being parallel to Col. 2.

Here is what Leviticus 23 says about the sabbath, before even discussing the other appointed times.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

It does not limit it to being a convocation only when it overlaps with "annual" feasts.

Nor is it so limited in Numbers 28, which we already reviewed, and which discusses the sacrifices:

Num 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
Num 28:10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

This was certainly not pointed out to me by the text, but by your statement of your view. The Sabbath is listed as an appointed time before the others are even listed, not only in the context of those other times.

And the only reason you would even propose such a thing is that you want to deflect from it being included in Ezekiel 45 which you admitted was parallel to Col. 2.

It points to creation, redemption, and sanctification, not just looking back.

I am sorry but I respectfully disagree. There is actually nothing in this post that addresses anything in my last group of posts to you. You seem to have simply ignored them. As posted earlier I believe your mistake here is that you think that Gods' 4th commandments is limited to the annual Feast days of the old covenant and animal sacrifices of the old covenant. It is not. It is linked to the seventh day of the creation week on a continuous "seven day" weekly cycle both inside and outside of the annual Feast days and the old and new covenants as it was made before all the Feast days, before all covenants; before the laws of remission of sins and before the "shadow laws" that point to Christ and Gods plan of salvation under the old and new covenants. There was no sin when God made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation and no plan of salvation given to mankind because there was no sin. Your mixing up the "shadow laws" given by God in the old covenant for remission of sin with Gods' eternal law given before sin at creation as an everlasting covenant that is Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). I am not sure why you cannot see this. The Sabbath was made and given to mankind before Moses, before Israel, before Jews, before Egypt on the "seventh day" of creation where God blessed the seventh day and made the seventh day a holy day of rest (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3). According to the scriptures if breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments is sin according to *James 2:10-11, and God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, do you believe we can continue in God's salvation if God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject it in order to continue practicing known unrepentant sin (see Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-31)?

Hope this is helpful

 

[tall73]

I am sorry but I respectfully disagree. There is actually nothing in this post that addresses anything in my last group of posts to you.
You seem to have simply ignored them. As posted earlier your mistake here is that you think that Gods' 4th commandments is limited to the annual Feast days.

You start by changing the terminology to "annual" feast days. That shows you are reading in your view.

Ezekiel 45, where this back and forth started, states that they are appointed times, but does not say "annual", because not all in fact are annual.

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed times of the house of Israel:

The weekly Sabbath is ONE of the appointed times. It is not annual. And neither is the new moon.

And the Sabbath was an appointed time every time it occurred. And the sacrifices for it were to be offered for it every time it occurred.

It is not. It is linked to the seventh day creation week on a continuous seven day cycle both inside and outside of the annual Feast days and the old and new covenants as it was made before all covenants; before the laws of remission of sins and shadow laws, before the new covenant and before sin.

That is your contention, not what the text states. Genesis was not written before the covenant with Abraham., or before sin. It is a continuous narrative with Exodus.

It was written by an Isreaelite, in the context of the covenant with Israel, and refers to the Sabbath as not just pointing to creation, but to Redemption from Egypt (after Abraham, after sin), and to ongoing sanctification.

And the command for the Sabbath was not written before the covenant with Abraham, or sin in the text. It was spoken from the mountain, in the context of the covenant with Israel. It is specifically stated to be for Israel:

Exo 31:12 And the LORD said to Moses,
Exo 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


The Sabbath is "linked" to God being Creator, Redeemer and the One who sanctifies, not just one of the above.

And all of these are pointed out in the context of the covenant with Israel, after sin.

And the weekly Sabbath is in Ezekiel 45, which you admit is parallel to Col. 2. That means the weekly Sabbath is in Col. 2.

I am not sure why you cannot see this unless you are simply choosing not to.

No, in fact I addressed the things you say I can't see.

I guess we will agree to disagree and I will leave it between you and God to work thought.

Do you mean it this time? Are you going to stick with it?

Are you going to stop giving appeals like the one below?

This is not something I would be wanting to gamble my own salvation on according to the scriptures

If you want me to change my view it is not going to happen because of a risk mitigation equation.

I am not just going to say "well, I can't see LGW's point from Scripture, but I don't want to burn, so I better go with it just in case, to be safe. I don't want to gamble, after all."

I pray, study, discuss, etc. trusting that God will lead me.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You start by changing the terminology to "annual" feast days. That shows you are reading in your view.

Sorry but I respectfully disagree. As shown in the earlier posts and scriptures provided, I believe it is you that is reading your view into the Feast days in regards to Gods' 4th commandment being a "shadow law" when it is not as shown why through the scriptures shared with you earlier. As shown though the scripture already I believe your mistake here is that you think that Gods' 4th commandments is limited to the annual Feast days. It is not. God's seventh day Sabbath is linked directly to the seventh day creation week on a continuous seven day cycle both inside and outside of the annual Feast days and the old and new covenants as it was made before all Feast days, before all covenants; before the laws of remission of sins and shadow laws that point to Christ and Gods plan of salvation under the old and new covenants because there was no sin when God made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation before a plan of salvation was given to mankind because there was no sin. Your mixing up the "shadow laws" given by God in the old covenant for remission of sin with Gods' eternal law given before sin at creation that is an everlasting covenant that is Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). The Sabbath was made and given to mankind before Moses, before Israel, before Jews, before Egypt on the "seventh day" of creation (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3). Perhaps you can pray about it.

Ezekiel 45, where this back and forth started, states that they are appointed times, but does not say "annual", because not all in fact are annual.
Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed times of the house of Israel:
The weekly Sabbath is ONE of the appointed times. It is not annual. And neither is the new moon.
And the Sabbath was an appointed time every time it occurred. And the sacrifices for it were to be offered for it every time it occurred.
That is your contention, not what the text states. Genesis was not written before the covenant with Abraham., or before sin. It is a continuous narrative with Exodus.

It was written by an Isreaelite, in the context of the covenant with Israel, and refers to the Sabbath as not just pointing to creation, but to Redemption from Egypt (after Abraham, after sin), and to ongoing sanctification.

And the command for the Sabbath was not written before the covenant with Abraham, or sin in the text. It was spoken from the mountain, in the context of the covenant with Israel. It is specifically stated to be for Israel:

Exo 31:12 And the LORD said to Moses,
Exo 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Not relevant and already addressed in detail from previous posts and summarized in the last post and in the previous section of this post. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. God's 4th commandment is not restricted and bound to the Feast days in the old covenant it is an eternal law that God has linked to the "seventh day" of the creation week before law and before sin, before Egypt, before Moses and before Jews and before Israel (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). This is where your error lies. Your mixing up "shadow laws" under the old covenant for remission of sins with God's eternal law given to man when there was no sin. According to the new covenant scriptures God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. God's 4th commandment is also one of God's 10 commandments that defines what sin is when broken written on stone with the finger of God.

The Sabbath is "linked" to God being creator, redeemer and the one who sanctifies, not just one of the above. And all of these are pointed out in the context of the covenant with Israel, after sin. And the weekly Sabbath is in Ezekiel 45, which you admit is parallel to Col. 2. That means the weekly Sabbath is in Col. 2.

Not relevant to what has been shared with you from the scriptures. Your trying to argue that the Sabbath is a "shadow law" when it is not because it is not directly tied to the Feast days like the annual ceremonial sabbaths of *Leviticus 23:6-8; Leviticus 23:24-25; Leviticus 23:27-32; Leviticus 23:34-36; Leviticus 23:39; Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that are not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Your mixing up the annual ceremonial sabbaths in the Feast days from Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 with Gods' 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and is a part of God's eternal law in the new covenant that gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) that is linked directly into the seventh day of creation before sin and salvation was given for mankind. Salvation and God's plan of salvation was given after sin not before sin. I am not sure why you cannot see this. God's 4th commandment is an eternal law linked into the seventh day of the creation week made before sin and shadow laws pointing backwards to God as the creator of heaven and earth and the finished work of creation that God blessed and made holy for all mankind before sin and before law and before a plan of salvation and shadow laws were given to mankind because there was no sin (Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27) not forward to things to come because there was no sin or shadow laws or covenants or plan of salvation when God made the Sabbath for all mankind.

Hope this is helpful

 

[tall73]

No as shown in the earlier posts and scriptures provided it is you that is reading your view into the Feast days in regards to Gods' 4th commandment. As shown though the scripture already that you choose to ignore. As posted earlier your mistake here is that you think that Gods' 4th commandments is limited to the annual Feast days. It is not. It is linked to the seventh day creation week on a continuous seven day cycle both inside and outside of the annual Feast days and the old and new covenants as it was made before all Feast days, before all covenants; before the laws of remission of sins and shadow laws that point to Christ and Gods plan of salvation under the old and new covenants because there was no sin when God made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation before a plan of salvation was given to mankind because there was no sin. Your mixing up the "shadow laws" given by God in the old covenant for remission of sin with Gods' eternal law given before sin at creation that is an everlasting covenant that is Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4). I am not sure why you cannot see this unless you are simply choosing not to. The Sabbath was made and given to mankind before Moses, before Israel, before Jews, before Egypt on the "seventh day" of creation (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3). This is not something I would be wanting to gamble my own salvation on according to the scriptures if breaking Gods 4th commandment is sin according to *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-31. Perhaps you can pray about it.

Not relevant and already addressed in detail from previous posts and summarized in the last post and in the previous section of this post. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. God's 4th commandment is not restricted and bound to the Feast days in the new covenant it is an eternal law that God has linked to the "seventh day" of the creation week before law and before sin, before Egypt, before Moses and before Jews and before Israel (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). This is where your error lies. Your mixing up "shadow laws" under the old covenant for remission of sins with God's eternal law given to man when there was no sin. According to the new covenant scriptures God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. God's 4th commandment is also one of God's 10 commandments that defines what sin is when broken written on stone with the finger of God.

Not relevant to what has been shared with you from the scriptures. Your trying to argue that the Sabbath is a "shadow law" when it is not because it is not directly tied to the Feast days like the annual ceremonial sabbaths of *Leviticus 23:6-8; Leviticus 23:24-25; Leviticus 23:27-32; Leviticus 23:34-36; Leviticus 23:39; Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that are not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Your mixing up the annual ceremonial sabbaths in the Feast days from Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 with Gods' 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and is a part of God's eternal law in the new covenant that gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) that is linked directly into the seventh day of creation before sin and salvation was given for mankind. Salvation and God's plan of salvation was given after sin not before sin. I am not sure why you cannot see this. Perhaps you can pray about it because breaking anyone of God' 10 commandments according to James 2:10-11 is sin (see also Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-31). God's 4th commandment is an eternal law linked into the seventh day of the creation week made before sin and shadow laws pointing backwards to God as the creator of heaven and earth and the finished work of creation that God blessed and made holy for all mankind before sin and before law and before a plan of salvation and shadow laws were given to mankind because there was no sin (Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27) not forward to things to come because there was no sin or shadow laws or covenants or plan of salvation when God made the Sabbath for all mankind.

Hope this is helpful

LGW: I guess we will agree to disagree and I will leave it between you and God to work though

Tall73: Do you mean it this time? Are you going to stick with it?

Apparently you did not mean it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, I think that may be helpful to again review the statements regarding the covenant and the ten commandments.

The ten commandments were delivered in the context of the covenant promises:

Exo 19:3 while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;
Exo 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”
Exo 19:7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.
Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

The statement regarding bringing them to Himself, from Egypt, is showing His sovereignty over them, and His deeds done in kindness to them. He is their Redeemer, which is stated as a reason to enter into covenant, and serve Him.

We see this emphasized again when He speaks the commandments, and also in in Deuteronomy 5 in relation to the Sabbath.

God spoke the ten commandments from the mountain.

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exo 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You shall not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You shall not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exo 20:17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”

Bringing the people out of slavery is again referenced as a claim upon them from their Sovereign. The Sabbath seems to play a similar role as the references to bringing from Egypt. He has legitimate rule over them, and more than just them, but over all things as Creator. God is not only Redeemer, but Creator, and they are to serve Him.

The people were afraid following hearing God's voice and asked Moses to not have God speak to them further, but for him to relay other commands.

Exo 20:18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off
Exo 20:19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”
Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.”
Exo 20:21 The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.

God's appearance on the mountain, and speaking of the commandments was meant to test the people, and place fear upon them that they would not sin.

The sabbath command in the Deuteronomy 5 recounting of the ten commandments gives a different rationale, though not a new one as it was contained in the overall rationale for the covenant previously.

Deu 5:12 “‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

This again shows that the Sabbath command is tied to God's sovereignty over the people, and His claim on their lives due to being their redeemer.

The Sabbath is singled out as of utmost importance prior to the giving of the tablets of the testimony, of which they are part:

Exo 31:12 And the LORD said to Moses,
Exo 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

The Sabbath is shown to be prominent even among the ten as a sign that God sanctifies them, and that He is Creator. It is specifically said to be a sign with the house of Israel, and a covenant with them.

This seems to have some parallels to circumcision in the covenant with Abraham. It is not expressly called the sign of the covenant, but is singled out as an obligation above all for Israel as a covenant with the Lord.

In Ezekiel God again singles out the Sabbath as a sign in addition to the law by which one lives, alluding also to Ex. 31, when recounting His relationship to Israel.

Eze 20:10 So I led them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness.
Eze 20:11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live.
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

So based on all the above I would think the Sabbath is a sign given to Israel in the heart of the covenant document, and singled out among the spoken commands of God to Israel, as a continuing sign of God's sovereignty over His people as Creator, Redeemer, and the one who sanctifies them, or makes them holy.

If you have other insights please post them. If there is some agreement as to the purpose then we can discuss the other questions you raise about what happens if the Sabbath is removed from observance, etc.

Added in @icedragon101 to this response to your post to him...

What your also not considering here is the same set of scriptures in our discussion and that is that the Sabbath was made and given to mankind on the "seventh day of the creation week" *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. This was before sin, before law, before God gave us his plan of salvation for sin, before Jews, before Israel, before Moses before Egypt, before any covenants were given to mankind where God blessed the "seventh day" and made it a holy day of rest for mankind. Therefore trying to make an argument that the Sabbath is linked only to Israel in the flesh because of Egypt is not really quite true here if we examine the origin of when the Sabbath was made for all mankind.

Your also not considering in your post here that God's Israel in the new covenant is no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who are now through faith in God's Word born again in the Spirit according to the promises of God *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:27-28; Romans 2:27-28. If we are not a part of God's Israel we have no part in Gods new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Therefore all of God's Word and promises and commandments are for God's Israel in the new covenant who the Word of God defines as all those who though faith that are born of the Spirit to believe and follow Gods' Word.

Those who are born of God according to the scriptures (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9) do not practice sin and sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following God's Word *James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Romans 14:23. We all know that God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. Therefore according to the scriptures God's people do not practice breaking God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).

Hope this is helpful

 

[tall73]

Added in @icedragon101 to this response to your post to him...

LGW: I guess we will agree to disagree and I will leave it between you and God to work though

Tall73: Do you mean it this time? Are you going to stick with it?

I will help you help yourself in keeping this. I will ignore you and just respond to Ice. He is well acquainted with the various arguments.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Yes, I think that may be helpful to again review the statements regarding the covenant and the ten commandments.

The ten commandments were delivered in the context of the covenant promises:

Exo 19:3 while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;
Exo 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”
Exo 19:7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.
Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

The statement regarding bringing them to Himself, from Egypt, is showing His sovereignty over them, and His deeds done in kindness to them. He is their Redeemer, which is stated as a reason to enter into covenant, and serve Him.

We see this emphasized again when He speaks the commandments, and also in in Deuteronomy 5 in relation to the Sabbath.

God spoke the ten commandments from the mountain.

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exo 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
Exo 20:13 “You shall not murder.
Exo 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 “You shall not steal.
Exo 20:16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exo 20:17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”

Bringing the people out of slavery is again referenced as a claim upon them from their Sovereign. The Sabbath seems to play a similar role as the references to bringing from Egypt. He has legitimate rule over them, and more than just them, but over all things as Creator. God is not only Redeemer, but Creator, and they are to serve Him.

The people were afraid following hearing God's voice and asked Moses to not have God speak to them further, but for him to relay other commands.

Exo 20:18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off
Exo 20:19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”
Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.”
Exo 20:21 The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.

God's appearance on the mountain, and speaking of the commandments was meant to test the people, and place fear upon them that they would not sin.

The sabbath command in the Deuteronomy 5 recounting of the ten commandments gives a different rationale, though not a new one as it was contained in the overall rationale for the covenant previously.

Deu 5:12 “‘Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

This again shows that the Sabbath command is tied to God's sovereignty over the people, and His claim on their lives due to being their redeemer.

The Sabbath is singled out as of utmost importance prior to the giving of the tablets of the testimony, of which they are part:

Exo 31:12 And the LORD said to Moses,
Exo 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

The Sabbath is shown to be prominent even among the ten as a sign that God sanctifies them, and that He is Creator. It is specifically said to be a sign with the house of Israel, and a covenant with them.

This seems to have some parallels to circumcision in the covenant with Abraham. It is not expressly called the sign of the covenant, but is singled out as an obligation above all for Israel as a covenant with the Lord.

In Ezekiel God again singles out the Sabbath as a sign in addition to the law by which one lives, alluding also to Ex. 31, when recounting His relationship to Israel.

Eze 20:10 So I led them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness.
Eze 20:11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live.
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

So based on all the above I would think the Sabbath is a sign given to Israel in the heart of the covenant document, and singled out among the spoken commands of God to Israel, as a continuing sign of God's sovereignty over His people as Creator, Redeemer, and the one who sanctifies them, or makes them holy.

If you have other insights please post them. If there is some agreement as to the purpose then we can discuss the other questions you raise about what happens if the Sabbath is removed from observance, etc.

I'm trying to get something very specific here. By observing the text we can see there's an order and a progression to the commandments.

Notice the first commandment says God is first.

The second commandment says you're the represent God properly. You're not to misrepresent him in physical form or ascribe to any creature his attributes or as representing him.

The Third commandment says there is a penalty for this. If you misrepresent God, God's going to punish you.

Now here's where it gets interesting Tall. The commandments never specifically States how you were supposed to represent God, unless you ascribe to the Sabbath day the means of doing this. "Remember" is a call to represent God properly. By calling to memory the things that are contained in the Sabbath command. We are called to remember the God of the garden. For this is who God is, this is how he's revealed and this is how he uses his power.

So what is it about the garden that specifically demonstrates who God is, his character if you will?

First of all it tells us God has power. He has mastery over the elements. He can bring order out of chaos. He can bring life out of non life. Implied in the statement is that he can bring order out of your chaos and give you life out of a non life that you have.

Second it says that he uses his power for good. The phrase it is good is repeated over and over and over again in the creation account and concludes with things being very good. implying those in power must use that power for some benefit and value.

The Genesis account then tells us that he designs an environment for us that has abundance and variety. Both in plant life and an animal life and sets us up in a position of success. To prosper, on biblical language be fruitful and multiply. Those in power must use power to benefit us set us up for success.

After creating an environment for life to be sustained and setting us up for success, then goes on to create a healthy relationship modeled after himself. And commands us to increase and multiply in that relationship while giving us all the tools necessary to achieve that goal. Those in power must use it that way as well

That is what remembering is about that is what you're supposed to remember. Now why is that important, because what comes next is the giving of power and authority to people. Notice the giving of power only comes after one has a proper understanding of who God is. Since our parents are the first authority figures and we learn about God through them, the Sabbath command is a reminder to people in power that God wants good things for them and they are to use the power in the manner in which God used it himself for the benefit of humanity.

Before we move on there's one other aspect that we must look at and that is the seventh day at creation. Many critics have pointed out that there is no evening and morning formula at the end of day 7. They have concluded that somehow this negates the Sabbath day in Exodus or that there was no repeated weekly cycle. This could not be further from the truth. The truth is the lack of evening and morning on the seventh day simply stating that the sovereignty of God is never ended. It is continual and is perpetual. Thus the seventh day becomes associated with his sovereignty and his rulership and his character and all the blessings and benefits that come with him. Returning to the seventh day is a return to the blessings and the benefits that he brings. The Sabbath command in Exodus 20, thus becomes a weekly vacation, where the burdens of work ,which was a construct of the Fall, is undone and one is allowed to experience the benefits of eating and the benefits of God's character and God's ownership even while Satan is still ruler of the world. Sabbath places a limit on how much the devil can abuse us. At least once a week my people will have some time to enjoy their life, thus a vacation from their labors.

The question that one must ask in dealing with this perpetual nature of the Sabbath is simply this....

Has God's character ever changed?
Has His desires for us changed?
How's the model of the garden been altered in some way shape or form?

If the answer is yes to any one of those you have to ask when and where did those things change.

When did God change?
When did his model change?
Did his desires change?

IF you say that he is fundamentally unchanged, then you would have to ask the question why would he need to change the Sabbath day? And what does the change of the Sabbath day mean it'll light of Revelation and the image of the beast. You see the conflict between the image of God and the image of the beast being played out in the book of Revelation, And a call to worship Him who made "Heaven and Earth" , that is a direct reference to the covenant made in the garden. Heaven and Earth almost always refer to the Garden of Eden.

We can look at some other technical aspects of the calendar, such as how the calendar repeats outside the garden. Or the fact that God was not around when they were being attempted demonstrating that he was not always there. He created fully grown adults sent them out in a job and then took off. With the promise to return. It was never his intention to be with Adam and Eve 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Now some have speculated that he returned every evening and some of speculated that it was once a week. After studying the calendar out I think there's something about an 85% chance that he returned once a week it was on the the seventh day. Scpture does not specifically say that, but observation and knowing how the calendar works leads me to that conclusion. Now even if it doesn't go that way and he returns every evening, his presence is still associated with his sovereignty and the era of his absolute rule, the seventh day out of Exodus is a memorialization of the appointed time of his return.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

tall used voice text to add this so if there is something that does not make sense it is the voice software fault. I have gone back and fixed as much as I can, but I might have missed something.

 

[tall73]

tall used voice text to add this so if there is something that does not make sense it is the voice software fault. I have gone back and fixed as much as I can, but I might have missed something.

I will look over this for a while.

Yesterday before we started this conversation I was considering that the week comes from creation, and is referenced pre-Moses in the account of Jacob's wedding feast.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

I will look over this for a while.

Yesterday before we started this conversation I was considering that the week comes from creation, and is referenced pre-Moses in the account of Jacob's wedding feast.

Try looking at Noah and the counting of time there. The story of Abraham in the reference to the prophecy. They're clearly using a a calendar. In fact every reference to time in Genesis refers to the calendar. You might want to study the different times missing in Genesis

 

[The Liturgist]

since i don't accept EGW as prophet or a source of authority it is irrelevant.



a source & quote would be nice.

The hymns are in the Lenten Triodion; also the Coptic Reader app available on iOS has some beautiful hymns in the same tradition, and some portions of the Syriac Orthodox fanqitho, which has their proper hymns for holy days throughout the year is partially available online. The Triodion I have in print format only unfortunately, and I am on a business trip and do not have access to it, but there are two useful editions, one is a translation of the services of Holy Week and Pascha used by the Greek Orthodox church, and the other is the edition by Kallistos Ware and Mother Mary, but if you’re going to get that, you should also get the Festal Menaion which has hymns for other major holidays like Christmas, Theophany, The Apostles, Transfiguration, Dormition, the Elevation of the Holy Cross, Candlemass, etc, and the Pentecostarion from St. John of Kronstadt Press (which is everything from Pascha to All Saints Day (the first Sunday after Pentecost Sunday).

 

[tall73]

In fact every reference to time in Genesis refers to the calendar. You might want to study the different times missing in Genesis

Missing? Can you elaborate on that please?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Missing? Can you elaborate on that please?

if there is one study i would recommend it is the study of the calander. in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. the mohedim, once you study that out you should see a pattern in the old test and in Genesis emerge. Now if you combine that with covenant theology. it gives you some powerful tools on view genesis, the natural default view is that sabbath was from the garden.