Assyrians on Sabbath and Sunday Worship

[Pavel Mosko]

I got to reading a bit on Church history lately, especially the Apostolic Fathers in light of a Messianic Facebook friends posting. And in my internet searches stumbled on this article, because I was interested interested in things like articles written about such things as Sabbath keeping and other kinds of Torah observance, by some of the ancient Churches that actually descended from "Jewish Christians" like the various Syriac Churches, the Ethiopians etc.

I found this Church of the East article one of the better writings on the subject. It is not all inclusive, It basically is written almost like a Catechism type writing. If I was writing it I would mention more Church Fathers than the Didache, and would talk about why Sunday is important in terms of the 8th day Biblical typology, but its thorough.


Observing the Sabbath – Saturday v. Sunday - Assyrian Church News

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I got to reading a bit on Church history lately, especially the Apostolic Fathers in light of a Messianic Facebook friends posting. And in my internet searches stumbled on this article, because I was interested interested in things like articles written about such things as Sabbath keeping and other kinds of Torah observance, by some of the ancient Churches that actually descended from "Jewish Christians" like the various Syriac Churches, the Ethiopians and even Copts.

I found this Church of the East article one of the better writings on the subject. It is not all inclusive, It basically is written almost like a Catechism type writing. It is not all inclusive if I was writing it I would mention more Church Fathers than the Didache, and would talk about why Sunday is important in terms of the 8th day Biblical typology.


Observing the Sabbath – Saturday v. Sunday - Assyrian Church News

These are the same arguments posted regularly in the Sabbath and law forums.

Jesus never broke God's commandments John 15:10 and this article makes it sound like Jesus did. Jesus kept the Sabbath weekly reading from scriptures in the Temple Luke 4:16 as did the disciples Acts 18:4. There is no new command in the entire bible that God, Jesus or the disciples told us that the 4th commandment was deleted from the Ten (the one that God said "remember") and now God has a new holy day to worship. This is a tradition that happened outside of the bible that Jesus warned us about Matthew 15:3-9. We should always obey God over man, especially something as important as the holy day of the Lord thy God. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 God bless

 

[Albion]

There is no command in the entire bible that God, Jesus or the disciples told us that the 4th commanded was the one commandment deleted from the Ten (the one that God said "remember") and now God has a new holy day to worship.

Because the claim has been posted here dozens of times, I'm curious to know if there is any denomination that we've ever heard of which actually "deleted" one of the commandments and teaches the "Nine Commandments" instead.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Because the claim has been posted here dozens of times, I'm curious to know if there is any denomination that we've ever heard of which actually "deleted" one of the commandments and teaches the "Nine Commandments" instead.

Sure, when a church promotes the first day as the primary day of worship over the day God commanded. Seems like a blatant disregard of the 4th commandment. Plus many churches teach you no longer need to keep the Sabbath day holy, the majority of the churches in fact.

 

[Albion]

Sure, when a church promotes the first day as the primary day of worship over the day God commanded. Seems like a blatant disregard of the 4th commandment. Plus many churches teach you no longer need to keep the Sabbath day holy, the majority of the churches in fact.

So you cannot name a single denomination that has deleted one of the Commandments (as was claimed) and teaches nine instead.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So you cannot name a single denomination that has deleted one of the Commandments (as was claimed) and teaches nine instead.

When you are not honoring a commandment, you are essentially deleting it. Look around at the churches Saturday morning compared to Sunday.

 

[dqhall]

I got to reading a bit on Church history lately, especially the Apostolic Fathers in light of a Messianic Facebook friends posting. And in my internet searches stumbled on this article, because I was interested interested in things like articles written about such things as Sabbath keeping and other kinds of Torah observance, by some of the ancient Churches that actually descended from "Jewish Christians" like the various Syriac Churches, the Ethiopians and even Copts.

I found this Church of the East article one of the better writings on the subject. It is not all inclusive, It basically is written almost like a Catechism type writing. It is not all inclusive if I was writing it I would mention more Church Fathers than the Didache, and would talk about why Sunday is important in terms of the 8th day Biblical typology.


Observing the Sabbath – Saturday v. Sunday - Assyrian Church News

When I was a teen most stores in Virginia were closed on Sundays, except drug stores. They started building huge drug stores with all other sorts of merchandise until they did away with the Sunday closings law.

It is better for me to have flexibility about when to work or rest. In Acts 15, the Sabbath was made optional, not mandatory. Practically speaking, if a town shuts down on Saturday or Sunday, I may need to adjust my activities accordingly.

 

[Albion]

When you are not honoring a commandment, you are essentially deleting it.

No, you're not. And that wasn't the whole of the allegations, either.

So "dressing up" the claim ought to stop. The Old Testament includes the command about the Sabbath and was given to Moses. The New Testament, which is equally the word of God, describes how Sunday became the primary day of worship for the new church. Almost all Christian churches continue the practice of worship on the first day and neither the Sabbath nor the Commandment was deleted. That's it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

When I was a teen most stores in Virginia were closed on Sundays, except drug stores. They started building huge drug stores with all other sorts of merchandise until they did away with the Sunday closings law.

It is better for me to have flexibility about when to work or rest. In Acts 15, the Sabbath was made optional, not mandatory. Practically speaking, if a town shuts down on Saturday or Sunday, I may need to adjust my activities accordingly.

Not really. According to John right before the Revelation of Jesus God's saints keep God's commandments, which includes the 4th commandment. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12. God gives us free will, but Jesus asked us to keep the commandments John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3. When we love God with all our hearts, why would we not want to obey, especially something as important as God's holy Sabbath day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, you're not. And that wasn't the whole of the allegations, either.

So "dressing up" the claim ought to stop. The Old Testament includes the command about the Sabbath and was given to Moses. The New Testament, which is equally the word of God, describes how Sunday became the primary day of worship for the new church. Almost all Christian churches continue the practice of worship on the first day and neither the Sabbath nor the Commandment was deleted. That's it.

I agree, the New Testament is equally the Word of God. We agree on something.

Honestly, I think it seems worse to know and understand God's Sabbath day and know the 4th commandment has not been deleted and to choose to make another day, a day God deemed a working day Exodus 20:9 as the primary day of worship.

Jesus taught us all about the Sabbath throughout the New Testament. Scriptures show Jesus going to Temple as it was His custom and reading scriptures Luke 4:16. The Sabbath is mentioned close to 60 times alone in the New Testament. We are told to follow in the footsteps of our Savior 1 Peter 2:21. Jesus never once said that the first day will be the new holy day after He rises. This is something man-made and Jesus tells us to not worship Him in vain by obeying traditions over commandments. Matthew 15:3-8. There is no scripture that states the 4th commandment has been deleted and we should now worship Jesus on the first day in the bible. There are 8 references to the first day in scripture and not one of them say this otherwise you would have posted it by now. You are free to do what you want as God gives us all free will. The Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 and breaking any of God's laws is considered sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Matthew 5:19. Keeping God's Sabbath day holy is a blessing and many are missing out.

 

[Albion]

I agree, the New Testament is equally the Word of God. We agree on something.

Well. That seems a surprising step forward.

Honestly, I think it is worse to know and understand God's Sabbath day and 4th commandment has not been deleted

and this, too.

...and to choose to make another day, a day God deemed a working day Exodus 20:9 as the primary day of worship.

You know, there are all sorts of instructions we find in the Bible and, in the backs of our minds we wonder if we'd have done that ourselves, whatever it is. BUT we affirm the Bible. We believe it to be divine revelation, not just the religious musings of some old Hebrew. We don't say that it was meaningful thousand of years ago and in an culture quite different from ours...ERGO, we can discard it now and come up with something that seems more sensible to us now.

I figure that this is your point of view the same as it is mine. BUT if so, there is no place for dismissing the word of God in the New Testament, when it confirms Sunday worship, not even if we revert back to something we find in the OT and say we like it better! It's the word of God we are talking about.

We cannot ignore that point, but yet that appears to be what Sabbatarians do when they say that the NT's testimony about worship on the first day doesn't carry any weight. The NT is either God's word or it is not.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well. That seems a surprising step forward.



and this, too.


You know, there are all sorts of instructions we find in the Bible and, in the backs of our minds we wonder if we'd have done that ourselves, whatever it is. BUT we affirm the Bible. We believe it to be divine revelation, not just the religious musings of some old Hebrew. We don't say that it was meaningful thousand of years ago and in an culture quite different from ours...ERGO, we can discard it now and come up with something that seems more sensible to us now.

I figure that this is your point of view the same as it is mine. BUT if so, there is no place for dismissing the word of God in the New Testament, when it confirms Sunday worship, not even if we revert back to something we find in the OT and say we like it better! It's the word of God we are talking about.

We cannot ignore that point, but yet that appears to be what Sabbatarians do when they say that the NT's testimony about worship on the first day doesn't carry any weight. The NT is either God's word or it is not.

The thing is God does not change Malachi 3:6 and either does the holy day of the Lord thy God as we see on the New Earth, the Sabbath, not Sunday will continue to be the day of worship Isaiah 66:23.

I keep waiting for that scripture where the NT tells us that we no longer have to keep holy and can disregard the commandment God asked us to "remember" in favor of a new holy day. Something as important as breaking a commandment of God, Jesus would have said something. Instead, Jesus told us He hopes our flight is not in winter or on the Sabbath day, because it would sure not be delightful to run for your lives when the wolves try to persecute God's saints who still keep God's commandments. Matthew 24:20. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12.

I need to run for now, but hope you have a blessed day!

 

[BobRyan]

I got to reading a bit on Church history lately, especially the Apostolic Fathers in light of a Messianic Facebook friends posting. And in my internet searches stumbled on this article, because I was interested interested in things like articles written about such things as Sabbath keeping and other kinds of Torah observance, by some of the ancient Churches that actually descended from "Jewish Christians" like the various Syriac Churches, the Ethiopians and even Copts.

I found this Church of the East article one of the better writings on the subject. It is not all inclusive, It basically is written almost like a Catechism type writing. It is not all inclusive if I was writing it I would mention more Church Fathers than the Didache, and would talk about why Sunday is important in terms of the 8th day Biblical typology.


Observing the Sabbath – Saturday v. Sunday - Assyrian Church News

1. Your link has all the week-day-1 texts that never call it "Lord's day" that there is to be found which makes it a great resource.

2. your link says this

"The Holy church by the authority given to her can change the worship day from Saturday to Sunday. Our Lord Jesus Christ gave Saint Peter the authority to change the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday."

which puts the authority for "Changing the worship day" at the feet of tradition. Which is where it belongs. So apparently we do agree on something.​

3. Your link's very complete list of texts for "week-day-1" comes up with not one text saying:

a. We call Week-day-1 the Lord's day
b. We meet every week day 1 , for Gospel preaching, to hold mass, to break bread in communion
c. We observe week-day-1 instead of the Sabbath
d. We have changed the Sabbath day of observance from the 7th day to week-day-1
e. Week day 1 is our weekly day of worship, an entire day holy to the Lord.​

4. By contrast in the actual Bible we have

a. EVERY Sabbath - Gospel preaching to Gentiles AND Jews Acts 18:4
b. Gentiles ask for MORE Gospel preaching to be presented "NEXT Sabbath" - at which point almost the entire gentile town turns out for that Sabbath preaching of the Gospel.

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.​

c. "Sabbath made for mankind" Mark 2:27 not "Sabbath made for just Jews"
d. Sabbath in Eden - Ex 20:11 points to Gen 2:1-3 -- for mankind
e. Sabbath known to Isaiah and his readers -- to be kept for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth - by all mankind. "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
f. Gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping Is 56:6
g. Mark 7:7-13 Christ hammers tradition when it contradicts one of the commandments
h. Even in your link every reference to the weekly "Sabbath" is admitted to be "the 7th day" of the week by the author of that article. (and so we agree there as well).
​

 

[dqhall]

Not really. According to John right before the Revelation of Jesus God's saints keep God's commandments, which includes the 4th commandment. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12. God gives us free will, but Jesus asked us to keep the commandments John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3. When we love God with all our hearts, we would we not want to obey, especially something as important as God's holy Sabbath day.

The fourth commandment refers to the seventh day. The Hebrew days are from sunset to sunset, not midnight to midnight. Shabbat (Sabbath) is the seventh day, that is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Sunday is the first day of the week. Thus many do not keep this commandment.

Circumcision is another commandment not required of Christians. There are others too.

 

[BobRyan]

The fourth commandment refers to the seventh day. The Hebrew days are from sunset to sunset, not midnight to midnight. Shabbat (Sabbath) is the seventh day, that is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Sunday is the first day of the week. Thus many do not keep this commandment.

Ok so that is true - what is your point? That not keeping one of God's commandments... makes it ok? Or that many Christians do not think that all Ten of the Commandments are still valid? James 4:17

Circumcision is another commandment not required of Christians. There are others too.

Circumcision only applied to Jews in both OT and NT. There is no OT statement that gentiles could not be saved unless they were circumcised. So Is 56:6 calls gentiles to keep Sabbath but not for gentiles to be circumcised.

 

[dqhall]

Ok so that is true - what is your point? That not keeping one of God's commandments... makes it ok? Or that many Christians do not think that all Ten of the Commandments are still valid? James 4:17



Circumcision only applied to Jews in both OT and NT. There is no OT statement that gentiles could not be saved unless they were circumcised. So Is 56:6 calls gentiles to keep Sabbath but not for gentiles to be circumcised.

There were Jewish brethren who wanted Gentiles to be circumcised. It is in the Bible.

Galatians 6:12-13 Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

In Acts 16 Paul asked Timothy to be circumcised. Timothy was mixed race or mixed religion. Paul was asking him to convert to circumcision in order for him to be more accepted by the Jews.

How many hundreds of millions of Christians ignore the 4th commandment and work on Saturday? Are you not any holier than they because you keep only part of the law, but not all of the law? If you keep all of the law, you might try to kill your neighbors who work on the Sabbath, because the Torah law requires the death penalty for such.

As a Christian you may work or rest when you like. You may not execute people for disobeying Torah Sabbath law.

 

[ChetSinger]

I got to reading a bit on Church history lately, especially the Apostolic Fathers in light of a Messianic Facebook friends posting. And in my internet searches stumbled on this article, because I was interested interested in things like articles written about such things as Sabbath keeping and other kinds of Torah observance, by some of the ancient Churches that actually descended from "Jewish Christians" like the various Syriac Churches, the Ethiopians etc.

I found this Church of the East article one of the better writings on the subject. It is not all inclusive, It basically is written almost like a Catechism type writing. If I was writing it I would mention more Church Fathers than the Didache, and would talk about why Sunday is important in terms of the 8th day Biblical typology, but its thorough.


Observing the Sabbath – Saturday v. Sunday - Assyrian Church News

I read your link. Thank you so much for this. This is wonderful!

 

[BobRyan]

There were Jewish brethren who wanted Gentiles to be circumcised. It is in the Bible.

Jewish "brethren" are Christian Jews. the Non-Christian Jews were worshipping with Gentiles in Synagogues every Sabbath in Acts 13,16, 17 and 18 - with no problems at all because there is no command in the OT for gentiles to be circumcised.

Christian Jews "made it up" and in Acts 15 the Apostles slammed them for doing it.

 

[BobRyan]

How many hundreds of millions of Christians ignore the 4th commandment and work on Saturday?

If you keep all of the law, you might try to kill your neighbors who work on the Sabbath, because the Torah law requires the death penalty for such.

So then I choose not to "take God's name in vain" and in your view that means I should just as well kill??

False.

ok ... so then what was your point?

 

[dqhall]

So then I choose not to "take God's name in vain" and in your view that means I should just as well kill??

False.