THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY!

[swordsman1]

Seeing as I am not allowed to address your interpretation of Rev 1:10 in the first part of your OP using the established rules of hermeneutics, but only your impossible challenge at the end, I am outa here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Seeing as I am not allowed to address your interpretation of Rev 1:10 in the first part of your OP using the established rules of hermeneutics, but only your impossible challenge at the end, I am outa here.

Of course your allowed to. Do you have any scripture?

 

[swordsman1]

Of course your allowed to. Do you have any scripture?

The established rules of hermeneutics allow for historic evidence to be considered, which I provided. But you dismiss it as being "outside of scripture", and insist I must only respond your impossible 'challenge' at the end of your OP.

You then report my posts for being off-topic and it gets deleted, so I am gone.

 

[HIM]

And yet you yourself use historic evidence elsewhere to prove your own points.

Simply dismissing the historic evidence here as "man-made teaching and traditions" when it refutes your position doesn't wash at all I'm afraid.

For some reason the following question was deleted.
Have you looked at the Didache in the Greek yourself? If you do you will find that the phrase the "Lord's day" is not in it. Here is a link. The Twelve Apostles-Didache

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The established rules of hermeneutics allow for historic evidence to be considered, which I provided. But you dismiss it as being "outside of scripture", and insist I must only respond your impossible 'challenge' at the end of your OP. You then report my posts for being off-topic and it gets deleted, so I am gone.

Please read the OP. As posted in the OP already we know what the teaching and tradition of the early Church are in regards to the claims that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday they are well established and you have already provided some references in this thread from BDAG. No one is in disagreement with this and no one is debating against any of this and it is agreed to between all parties. The purpose of the OP however is to discuss if this man-made teaching and tradition of Sunday being called "the Lords day" can be proven from the scriptures. Now do you have any scripture to support your view that Sunday is the meaning of "the Lords day" in Revelation 1:10? I believe that scripture teaches that the Sabbath day is "the Lords day" as shared through the scriptures provided in the OP here. If you can show us how the teaching and tradition of the Lords day being referred to as Sunday started from the scriptures it would be helpful to the discussion which is seeking to see if these traditional teachings of the church are biblical or not and can be proven through scripture. Do you have any scripture to support this teaching and tradition?

Take Care.

 

[swordsman1]

For some reason the following question was deleted.
Have you looked at the Didache in the Greek yourself? If you do you will find that the phrase the "Lord's day" is not in it. Here is a link. The Twelve Apostles-Didache

Quickly then, before our posts gets reported and deleted again for considering the historical evidence....

The word 'day' is often dropped when people referred to days of the week. So it is often referred to simply by the adjective "Lords" (κυριακὴν). Koine Greek translators are well aware of this, which is why all translations of the Didache render 14.1 as "the Lords day"...

Didache

This tradition has carried over into modern Greek, and the today's Greek word for Sunday is κυριακή. You can check this in Google Translate.

The same occurs with other days of the week. So for instance the Greek word for Wednesday is τετράδα (fourth), short for 'fourth day'.

τετράς, άδος, ἡ ‘the number four’ (Aristot., Philo), esp. ‘the fourth day’ (Hes. et al.; ins, pap, LXX of the fourth day of the month) the fourth day of the week, Wednesday τετράδα on Wednesday D 8:1 (on the acc. in answer to the question ‘when?’ s. B-D-F §161, 3; Rob. 470f).—DELG s.v. τέσσαρε.​

The Didache was written in AD60, well before John wrote Revelation, and together with other early Christian literature, shows us that the term "the Lords day" was in common use at the time to refer to Sunday, the day on which they met together.

This is why virtually all commentators of Rev 1:10, using the established rules of hermeneutics, agree that John was using a term that both he and his audience would understand as Sunday.

 

[Jipsah]

I have task for the Sabbatarians here. Show us one line of Scripture where the Gentile believers were told to keep the Sabbath.

 

[Jipsah]

Show me the scripture that says that.

I'm keen for someone to show me a single line of Scripture where Gentile believers were told to keep the Sabbath. Got one?

 

[Jipsah]

The purpose of the OP however is to discuss if this man-made teaching and tradition of Sunday being called "the Lords day" can be proven from the scriptures.

I submit that the question is irrelevant, because Gentile believers (and that's most of us) were never instructed to keep the Sabbath at all. If they were, then please provide the Scripture that documents it.

 

[Bob S]

I have task for the Sabbatarians here. Show us one line of Scripture where the Gentile believers were told to keep the Sabbath.

Thanks for posting the real truth.

I have asked this question many times. Absolutely nowhere in all of scripture and historical findings do we see any evidence anywhere indicating that God ever required Gentiles to observe the weekly Sabbath. Furthermore, the New Testament strongly suggests that Christians are not obligated to keep any day. Jesus is our Rest.

 

[Root of Jesse]

​

The Lord's day according to the tradition of men.

• What day does man claim to be the Lord's day?
  
• What day does one church organization openly claim authority to dictate as the Lord's day?
  
• What day has no actual scriptural support as a day of worship, of sanctification, or to be hallowed?
• What day flies in the face of the commandment of God?

IT was Jesus who made Sunday holy. He was a man, but he was also God. Jesus also gave His Church the authority to bind and loose, or are you forgetting that??? He also didn't leave us a Bible. He told his apostles to go out into the world and teach. Also, Jesus fulfilled the law. He boiled down the 613 Pharisaic laws, which were created by men from the Ten Commandments into two, which summarize the 10 Commandments. Those were to love God, and to love mankind as you love yourself. The first 3 commandments, in the Catholic numbering system, are how we love God, the last 7 are how we love men.
Jesus didn't believe in formulaic religion. Whenever he was asked for a formula, he would tell those querying him, basically, 'you already know what to do'. And when pressed further, the thing he said was to follow Him. When Jesus was crucified, I think it is very telling that he spent tthe Sabbath with those in Hades, and then rose on Sunday. We worship Him on the day he revealed Himself in glory.
And again, if you want to worship the Father and ignore the Son (and the Holy Spirit), go right ahead.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

IT was Jesus who made Sunday holy.

Can you please quote this scripture? I see where God made the seventh day holy Exodus 20:8, Isaiah 58:13 but I don't see this scripture anywhere in my Bible where Jesus made the first day a holy day. I know we should not be adding words to Jesus that He did not say.

He also didn't leave us a Bible. He told his apostles to go out into the world and teach.

Maybe you can show us the scripture where Jesus told the disciples they were free to change the laws of God. Jesus instead says this:

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

This sounds like Jesus wasn't telling them they could teach whatever they wanted. They were to teach what Jesus commanded. Jesus told us to keep the commandments of God. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 Jesus led by example by keeping the commandments of His Father and going to Temple every Sabbath reading scriptures. Luke 4:16

Jesus fulfilled the law

Jesus did not die for our sins so we could sin freely, there would be no point of His great sacrifice. Jesus told us He did not come to destroy the laws of God and we should keep the commandments. Matthew 5:17-20. There is even a warning to those who teach others we do not need to keep the least of the commandments.

And again, if you want to worship the Father and ignore the Son (and the Holy Spirit)

Jesus and God are not at odds with each other and either is God's laws. Jesus came to do the will of His Father in Heaven John 6:38 and the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God's laws. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32. God and Jesus are One. Our Savior and Redeemer.

God bless

 

[Root of Jesse]

Can you please quote this scripture? I see where God made the seventh day holy Exodus 20:8, Isaiah 58:13 but I don't see this scripture anywhere in my Bible where Jesus made the first day a holy day. I know we should not be adding words to Jesus that He did not say.

Every resurrection account. Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to his apostles. On Sunday.

Maybe you can show us the scripture where Jesus told the disciples they were free to change the laws of God. Jesus instead says this:

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;

Yes, and he also gave them authority "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. " And "Who hears you, hears me."

This sounds like Jesus wasn't telling them they could teach whatever they wanted. They were to teach what Jesus commanded. Jesus told us to keep the commandments of God. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3 Jesus led by example by keeping the commandments of His Father and going to Temple every Sabbath reading scriptures. Luke 4:16

Of course. JEsus told them that the Holy Spirit would guide them in ALL TRUTH. Meaning he would not let them teach anything that was in error.

Jesus did not die for our sins so we could sin freely, there would be no point of His great sacrifice. Jesus told us He did not come to destroy the laws of God and we should keep the commandments. Matthew 5:17-20. There is even a warning to those who teach others we do not need to keep the least of the commandments.

The point Jesus made was that rest and worship were the important things, not what day you worship on. So we CHOSE to worship JESUS on the day HE REVEALED HIMSELF to be what he IS. God.

Jesus and God are not at odds with each other and either is God's laws. Jesus came to do the will of His Father in Heaven John 6:38 and the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God's laws. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32. God and Jesus are One. Our Savior and Redeemer.

God bless

I love how you use John 6, ignoring all the rest of it, where Jesus told us we had to eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life...
But yes, Jesus and God are one, and Jesus told us what is important. And not to Pharisaically burden people with something like going hungry.

 

[Hezekiah81]

I submit that the question is irrelevant, because Gentile believers (and that's most of us) were never instructed to keep the Sabbath at all. If they were, then please provide the Scripture that documents it.

[Sure you were instructed.] (John 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:8-11) 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. [ God didn't say remember than say forget it and it's pick a day any day, neither did he say Christ's resurrection abolished his commandments. God only set apart one day which is the seventh and he never said otherwise. Man's mixed tradition of sunday worship will never usurp the authority of God.]

I submit that the question is irrelevant, because Gentile believers (and that's most of us) were never instructed to keep the Sabbath at all. If they were, then please provide the Scripture that documents it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Every resurrection account. Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to his apostles. On Sunday.
Yes, and he also gave them authority "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. " And "Who hears you, hears me."Of course. JEsus told them that the Holy Spirit would guide them in ALL TRUTH. Meaning he would not let them teach anything that was in error.The point Jesus made was that rest and worship were the important things, not what day you worship on. So we CHOSE to worship JESUS on the day HE REVEALED HIMSELF to be what he IS. God.I love how you use John 6, ignoring all the rest of it, where Jesus told us we had to eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life...
But yes, Jesus and God are one, and Jesus told us what is important. And not to Pharisaically burden people with something like going hungry.

You are adding words to Jesus and we are warned about this very thing Proverbs 30:5-6. God knows how to make a day holy, He showed us that from Creation Genesis 2:1-3 and than commanded us to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy Exodus 20:8-11 and very clearly stated the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord Isaiah 58:13. If Jesus wanted the first day to be a holy day or transfer the seventh day to the first day, He would have said so, but instead the seventh day remains the holy day and the Sabbath day was made ON PURPOSE because this is God’s authority and this is God’s will clearly- both spoken and written and kept in the Most Holy of His Temple.

Jesus did not give the disciples the ability to change God’s laws, they were to teach the Word of God which includes the laws of God which is quoted from Paul "keeping Gods laws is what matters" 1 Cor 7:19. The Holy Spirit guides you to obey Gods laws, not break them John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32. And this is how we know if it is coming from God or the “other” spirit Isaiah 8:20.

 

[Hezekiah81]

IT was Jesus who made Sunday holy. He was a man, but he was also God. Jesus also gave His Church the authority to bind and loose, or are you forgetting that??? He also didn't leave us a Bible. He told his apostles to go out into the world and teach. Also, Jesus fulfilled the law. He boiled down the 613 Pharisaic laws, which were created by men from the Ten Commandments into two, which summarize the 10 Commandments. Those were to love God, and to love mankind as you love yourself. The first 3 commandments, in the Catholic numbering system, are how we love God, the last 7 are how we love men.
Jesus didn't believe in formulaic religion. Whenever he was asked for a formula, he would tell those querying him, basically, 'you already know what to do'. And when pressed further, the thing he said was to follow Him. When Jesus was crucified, I think it is very telling that he spent tthe Sabbath with those in Hades, and then rose on Sunday. We worship Him on the day he revealed Himself in glory.
And again, if you want to worship the Father and ignore the Son (and the Holy Spirit), go right ahead.

[Nowhere in God's word does it say sunday was hallowed, and the church does not usurp the authority of God, his law is spiritual and eternal you can't change it.] (Psalms 111:7-8) 7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. 8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.[And one more thing; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one.]

 

[Hezekiah81]

S

Thanks for posting the real truth.

I have asked this question many times. Absolutely nowhere in all of scripture and historical findings do we see any evidence anywhere indicating that God ever required Gentiles to observe the weekly Sabbath. Furthermore, the New Testament strongly suggests that Christians are not obligated to keep any day. Jesus is our Rest.

[Sure there's evidence.] (John 14:15) If you love me, keep my commandments.

 

[Root of Jesse]

[Nowhere in God's word does it say sunday was hallowed, and the church does not usurp the authority of God, his law is spiritual and eternal you can't change it.] (Psalms 111:7-8) 7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. 8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.[And one more thing; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one.]

No, the Church does not usurp the authority of God. The Church has the authority God gave it. Once again, you people keep forgetting, we worship Jesus on Sunday. And every day, but especially Sunday. Nobody 'took away' anything, except many Christians don't keep the Sabbath rest. The Sabbath was a day of rest, and that rest is HOW the Hebrews were expected to keep it holy. Entirely separate from WORSHIP, which is a very active thing.

 

[Root of Jesse]

S
[Sure there's evidence.] (John 14:15) If you love me, keep my commandments.

Whose commandments? (Jesus')

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, the Church does not usurp the authority of God. The Church has the authority God gave it. Once again, you people keep forgetting, we worship Jesus on Sunday. And every day, but especially Sunday. Nobody 'took away' anything, except many Christians don't keep the Sabbath rest. The Sabbath was a day of rest, and that rest is HOW the Hebrews were expected to keep it holy. Entirely separate from WORSHIP, which is a very active thing.

Is it?

Saturday Sabbath will remain the day of worship for eternity....

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

This is for those saved, Jews, Gentiles and it's not a surprise to God's saints because we already keep the holy day of the Lord as written by our Creator and Savior. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 This is God's authority, not mans, who changed the corporate day of worship and Jesus warned us about following man-made traditions in lieu of obeying God's commandments Matthew 15:3-9