Ceremonial Law like circumcision -- vs moral law of TEN Comm with Sabbath for ALL

[SabbathBlessings]

Amen to the word but...... What do you consider as "works" in this passage of scripture?

The scripture explains itself:

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Works are our actions

Ecclesiastics 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

 

[Cribstyl]

The scripture explains itself:

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Works are our actions

Ecclesiastics 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

True, works is our actions. What are the works of faith?
Let's stick with James for a spell.

a) James 2:19 shows that even devils believe (faith) they tremble (works) because God's word say they're going to Hell.

b)James 2:21 Abraham believe(faith) God's word (in thy seed all nation shall be blessed) So his works was to trust God when he was asked to sacrifice his son.
c) James 2:25 Rahab believed God's word that the land would belong to Israel.
Read here about her works.
Jos 2:9“I know the LORD has given you this land,” she told them. “We are all afraid of you. Everyone in the land is living in terror.
Jos 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD made a dry path for you through the Red Sea
Jos 2:11 No wonder our hearts have melted in fear! No one has the courage to fight after hearing such things. For the LORD your God is the supreme God of the heavens above and the earth below.
Jos 2:12¶“Now swear to me by the LORD that you will be kind to me and my family since I have helped you. Give me some guarantee that
Jos 2:13 when Jericho is conquered, you will let me live, along with my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all their families.”
Jos 2:14¶“We offer our own lives as a guarantee for your safety,” the men agreed. “If you don’t betray us, we will keep our promise and be kind to you when the LORD gives us the land.”
Jos 2:15¶Then, since Rahab’s house was built into the town wall, she let them down by a rope through the window.

My point is this: James is saying that; works is based on actions taken, while believing (faith) that God will fulfill His word.
James is not talking about the works of keeping the law or ten commandments. So your link to keeping the commandments is likely a false connection. ..... because neither devils, Abraham or Rahab were under the Old Covenant to keep the law.

 

[HIM]

True, works is our actions. What are the works of faith?
Let's stick with James for a spell.

a) James 2:19 shows that even devils believe (faith) they tremble (works) because God's word say they're going to Hell.

b)James 2:21 Abraham believe(faith) God's word (in thy seed all nation shall be blessed) So his works was to trust God when he was asked to sacrifice his son.
c) James 2:25 Rahab believed God's word that the land would belong to Israel.
Read here about her works.
Jos 2:9“I know the LORD has given you this land,” she told them. “We are all afraid of you. Everyone in the land is living in terror.
Jos 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD made a dry path for you through the Red Sea
Jos 2:11 No wonder our hearts have melted in fear! No one has the courage to fight after hearing such things. For the LORD your God is the supreme God of the heavens above and the earth below.
Jos 2:12¶“Now swear to me by the LORD that you will be kind to me and my family since I have helped you. Give me some guarantee that
Jos 2:13 when Jericho is conquered, you will let me live, along with my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all their families.”
Jos 2:14¶“We offer our own lives as a guarantee for your safety,” the men agreed. “If you don’t betray us, we will keep our promise and be kind to you when the LORD gives us the land.”
Jos 2:15¶Then, since Rahab’s house was built into the town wall, she let them down by a rope through the window.

My point is this: James is saying that; works is based on actions taken, while believing (faith) that God will fulfill His word.
James is not talking about the works of keeping the law or ten commandments. So your link to keeping the commandments is likely a false connection. ..... because neither devils, Abraham or Rahab were under the Old Covenant to keep the law.

You are missing the context.


Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."NASB
Rom 4:15 "15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."KJV


Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Rom 3:19-20 "through the LAW comes the knowledge of what sin is"

your argument is "with the text"

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.

I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one -- you are free to choose as you wish.

.

Those who know what the context is teaching can see through your scheme to preach the law. .

The mere quote of scripture above was "sufficient cause" to give rise to your objection.

As noted above - Robertson points out --

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

"Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."​

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.

I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one - the point is just "that" obvious.

 

[HIM]

True, works is our actions. What are the works of faith?
Let's stick with James for a spell.

a) James 2:19 shows that even devils believe (faith) they tremble (works) because God's word say they're going to Hell.

b)James 2:21 Abraham believe(faith) God's word (in thy seed all nation shall be blessed) So his works was to trust God when he was asked to sacrifice his son.
c) James 2:25 Rahab believed God's word that the land would belong to Israel.
Read here about her works.
Jos 2:9“I know the LORD has given you this land,” she told them. “We are all afraid of you. Everyone in the land is living in terror.
Jos 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD made a dry path for you through the Red Sea
Jos 2:11 No wonder our hearts have melted in fear! No one has the courage to fight after hearing such things. For the LORD your God is the supreme God of the heavens above and the earth below.
Jos 2:12¶“Now swear to me by the LORD that you will be kind to me and my family since I have helped you. Give me some guarantee that
Jos 2:13 when Jericho is conquered, you will let me live, along with my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all their families.”
Jos 2:14¶“We offer our own lives as a guarantee for your safety,” the men agreed. “If you don’t betray us, we will keep our promise and be kind to you when the LORD gives us the land.”
Jos 2:15¶Then, since Rahab’s house was built into the town wall, she let them down by a rope through the window.

My point is this: James is saying that; works is based on actions taken, while believing (faith) that God will fulfill His word.
James is not talking about the works of keeping the law or ten commandments. So your link to keeping the commandments is likely a false connection. ..... because neither devils, Abraham or Rahab were under the Old Covenant to keep the law.

Context says different. Let's take a look at the preceding verses.

Let us not be tempted, drawn away by our own Lust, bringing forth sin unto death. For every good gift and perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights, us. We are Begotten by the word of truth, receive with meekness the engrafted word, the PERFECT gift.

Being Begotten of the word Be doers of the engrafted word not hearers only deceiving ourselves. For we are Begotten so don't forget who we are when Looking into a mirror at the perfect law of Liberty who we now are, the engrafted word and continue therein when we goeth our way.

Be a doer of the work and we will be blessed in the deeds. Being Begotten with the engrafted Word, The Royal Law, the Whole Law, the Law of Liberty in which we will be judged.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[Cribstyl]

Context says different. Let's take a look at the preceding verses.

Let us not be tempted, drawn away by our own Lust, bringing forth sin unto death. For every good gift and perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights, us. We are Begotten by the word of truth, receive with meekness the engrafted word, the PERFECT gift.

Being Begotten of the word Be doers of the engrafted word not hearers only deceiving ourselves. For we are Begotten so don't forget who we are when Looking into a mirror at the perfect law of Liberty who we now are, the engrafted word and continue therein when we goeth our way.

Be a doer of the work and we will be blessed in the deeds. Being Begotten with the engrafted Word, The Royal Law, the Whole Law, the Law of Liberty in which we will be judged.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Not sure what you're trying to say. How does this help the conversation?
Now tell us what the scriptures you presented say about faith and works?

SabbathBlessings presented James 2:14-26 and Ecc 12:13,14. I had no reason to consider the context. If you see how keeping the law is the works James is talking about say something

 

[Cribstyl]

The mere quote of scripture above was "sufficient cause" to give rise to your objection.

You mean to your objection? I'm not clear on what you're saying.
As I said before, partial quotes tend to hide the whole truth.

As noted above - Robertson points out --

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

"Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."​

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.

I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one - the point is just "that" obvious.

From what I read Robertson is correct...but I see you implying more than is said. Yes breaking the law brings about wrath. Neither is transgressing means there is nothing to break.
How does that show the law existed in Genesis?

 

[HIM]

Not sure what you're trying to say. How does this help the conversation?
Now tell us what the scriptures you presented say about faith and works?

SabbathBlessings presented James 2:14-26 and Ecc 12:13,14. I had no reason to consider the context. If you see how keeping the law is the works James is talking about say something

Something

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."NASB
Rom 4:15 "15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."KJV


Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Rom 3:19-20 "through the LAW comes the knowledge of what sin is"

your argument is "with the text"

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.

I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one -- you are free to choose as you wish.

.

Those who know what the context is teaching can see through your scheme to preach the law. .

The mere quote of scripture above was "sufficient cause" to give rise to your objection.

As noted above - Robertson points out --

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

"Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."​

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.

I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one - the point is just "that" obvious.

From what I read Robertson is correct.

agreed.

Yes breaking the law brings about wrath. Neither is transgressing means there is nothing to break.

Yep. And Genesis 4, and Genesis 6 reminds us that sin existed before the flood.

And since -- "Where there is no Law - there is no sin" , and since sin existed before the flood - so did Law by definition "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

 

[Cribstyl]

The mere quote of scripture above was "sufficient cause" to give rise to your objection.

As noted above - Robertson points out --

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

"Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."​

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.

No it does not. Paul taught that sin was in the world before the law.
Rom 5:13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one - the point is just "that" obvious.

Your comments are false.

Yep. And Genesis 4, and Genesis 6 reminds us that sin existed before the flood.

Yes, it's clear that sin was in the world from Adam, but there was no law.
Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

You cant show us that the ten commandments was there before Moses, without the partial quotes thing you do. By ignoring the true teachings you contradict the truth.

And since -- "Where there is no Law - there is no sin" , and since sin existed before the flood - so did Law by definition "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

Here we go.....
False, the text says. where there is no sin there is no transgression. Transgression is breaking a command. Sin's true definition is to miss the mark.

A partial quote from 1John 3:4 is abused to contradict true doctrine.
The fact that sin is transgression of the law, does not mean that law came before sin. The question is asked Why serveth the law? The law was added to the promise because of transgression.

 

[BobRyan]

No it does not. Paul taught that sin was in the world before the law. .

Paul taught - "where there is no Law there is no sin" Rom 4:15

The Law was written on stone long after God said in Genesis 6 that the sins of mankind were great and mankind would be wiped out for it... even in Gen 4 "SIN is at your door - but you must master it".

Abraham KEPT God's LAWS - His commandments Gen 26:5

 

[Cribstyl]

Paul taught - "where there is no Law there is no sin" Rom 4:15

The Law was written on stone long after God said in Genesis 6 that the sins of mankind were great and mankind would be wiped out for it... even in Gen 4 "SIN is at your door - but you must master it".

Abraham KEPT God's LAWS - His commandments Gen 26:5

LOL, the partial quote trick. Paul's epistles are letters to read, not soundbites. No need to isolate words.

Rom 4:13¶For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
Rom 4:15For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Paul said above; The promise did not come through the law it came through faith. If it came though the law, God lied and faith is a sham. The law brings
condemnation, but if there was no law at the time of the promise, their was nothing to break.

If you don't isolate text your teachings will fall. You contradict God's word because no-one holds you accountable.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

LOL, the partial quote trick. Paul's epistles are letters to read, not soundbites. No need to isolate words.

Rom 4:13¶For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
Rom 4:15For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Paul said above; The promise did not come through the law it came through faith. If it came though the law, God lied and faith is a sham. The law brings
condemnation, but if there was no law at the time of the promise, their was nothing to break.

If you don't isolate text your teachings will fall. You contradict God's word because no-one holds you accountable.

Correct. Without faith, you are not going to keep God's laws.

The penalty of breaking God's laws is death. Jesus came as a sacrifice so we could be saved from our sins. Jesus did not live a perfect life as our example to follow, so we could continue in a life of sin. When we stumble and fall we have an Advocate with Jesus who knows our every thought. When we repent from our sins and pray for a changed heart we are not going to want to sin.

God's laws are holy, pure, righteous and made from love, just like God is. God wrote His laws personally with His own hand and spoke them with His own voice how could they not be these things? God stored His law in the Most Holy of His Temple and they reflect the very essence of who God is. Teaching we do not have to keep God's laws is something that Jesus made clear we should not Mathew 5:19 and we know Jesus though keeping God's laws. 1 John 2:4, Mathew 7:23

God's saints has both the faith in Jesus and keep God's laws. Revelations 17:12, Revelations 14:12

If we have true faith and love Jesus we will want to obey our Savior. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

 

[BobRyan]

No it does not. Paul taught that sin was in the world before the law. .

Paul taught - "where there is no Law there is no sin" Rom 4:15

The Law was written on stone long after God said in Genesis 6 that the sins of mankind were great and mankind would be wiped out for it... even in Gen 4 "SIN is at your door - but you must master it".

Abraham KEPT God's LAWS - His commandments Gen 26:5

Paul said above; The promise did not come through the law it came through faith.

True but that does not change his statement above that without the law there is no sin.

the point remains.

 

[Cribstyl]

Paul taught - "where there is no Law there is no sin" Rom 4:15

Lol, you have no choice but to edit the bible. No bible says that Bob. but that's how your so-called truth is made up.

The Law was written on stone long after God said in Genesis 6 that the sins of mankind were great and mankind would be wiped out for it... even in Gen 4 "SIN is at your door - but you must master it".

Abraham KEPT God's LAWS - His commandments Gen 26:5

Now you're running away from Rom4:15.

 

[Cribstyl]

Correct. Without faith, you are not going to keep God's laws.

The penalty of breaking God's laws is death. Jesus came as a sacrifice so we could be saved from our sins. Jesus did not live a perfect life as our example to follow, so we could continue in a life of sin. When we stumble and fall we have an Advocate with Jesus who knows our every thought. When we repent from our sins and pray for a changed heart we are not going to want to sin.

God's laws are holy, pure, righteous and made from love, just like God is. God wrote His laws personally with His own hand and spoke them with His own voice how could they not be these things? God stored His law in the Most Holy of His Temple and they reflect the very essence of who God is. Teaching we do not have to keep God's laws is something that Jesus made clear we should not Mathew 5:19 and we know Jesus though keeping God's laws. 1 John 2:4, Mathew 7:23

God's saints has both the faith in Jesus and keep God's laws. Revelations 17:12, Revelations 14:12

If we have true faith and love Jesus we will want to obey our Savior. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

I cant sugarcoat this. I disagree with everything because it contradicts God's word.
since you have no comment on my claims, I will also ignore yours.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I cant sugarcoat this. I disagree with everything because it contradicts God's word.
since you have no comment on my claims, I will also ignore yours.

I am quoting scripture from God's Word which does not contradict God's own Word. Do you really think we can have true faith in Jesus and not obey? It's what we do that matters, not what we say. Anyone can say anything.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

 

[Studyman]

LOL, the partial quote trick. Paul's epistles are letters to read, not soundbites. No need to isolate words.

Rom 4:13¶For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
Rom 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Paul said above; The promise did not come through the law it came through faith. If it came though the law, God lied and faith is a sham. The law brings
condemnation, but if there was no law at the time of the promise, their was nothing to break.

If you don't isolate text your teachings will fall. You contradict God's word because no-one holds you accountable.

It is very good not to isolate Scriptures in order to promote a popular religious philosophy.

But I fear you have been tricked by religious philosophers of this world who do just that. Please consider this little study and feel free to engage about it. Answer the questions posed if you are interested.

Abraham had, at least according to the God of the Bible, God's Laws, Judgments, Commandments and Statutes, and God gave a blessing "BECAUSE" Abraham obeyed these Laws and Commandments of God.

Gen. 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


So we know Abraham had God's Commandments and Laws and Statutes, and he obeyed them, and "Because" of this, God gave Blessings.

Now when Paul says "For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law", what Law is he speaking to? Sodom was destroyed, Abraham was not. What was the real difference between them according to Scriptures? Because it is Clear that God rewarded Abraham and blessed others "because" Abraham loved and believed in Him enough to follow HIS instructions. It's right there in your own Bible.

So is Paul lying, or is it we have not read enough scriptures to make a determination?

What else did Paul say about this "Law".

Gal. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

WHAT??? Paul is speaking of a "LAW", or Covenant, that Abraham didn't have. But Abraham had God's Laws, Commandments, Statutes and Judgments. What Law or Covenant didn't Abraham have?

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

So this Law that Abraham didn't have, was "ADDED" to Something, because of "Transgression" of Something, 430 years after him, till our Prophesied True High Priest, After the "Order of Melchizedek" should come.

What Law was ADDED to what, because of Transgressions of what?

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice,(Like Abraham) and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, (Like Abraham) that it may be well unto you.

So did Israel mix Faith with the hearing like Abraham did?

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

No! They didn't walk in the Faith of their father Abraham, rather, they transgressed.

So because of this Transgression (golden Calf) God "ADDED" to His Commandments, Statutes, Laws and Judgments, a Law/Covenant Abraham didn't have. A Priesthood Covenant with Levi, who wasn't even born in Abraham's time. Called the "Order of Aaron" or in the NT, the Levitical Priesthood. NO ONE could become an heir to the Kingdom of God without going through this Priesthood and their sacrificial "Works of the Law" for justification. This "LAW" wasn't given to Israel when God gave them His Commandments, Statutes and Judgments. It was "ADDED" later, because of Transgressions until our true High Priest should come.

Abraham was justified "apart from this law".

Abraham was Blessed by God, not because he took a goat to the Levite Priest and killed it, and the Priest took the blood of the goat and sprinkled some on the alter.

"For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law". a LAW Abraham didn't even have as it wasn't ADDED until 430 years after him.

"but through the righteousness of faith"

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

So yes, God did "ADD" a temporary Law in which men were justified by Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law", which were a shadow of the sacrifice Christ would make for them. This Law was to lead them to Christ, their true High Priest, and for "many" it did just that, Caleb, David, Zacharias and Elizabeth, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men. But Levi departed out of the way of the Lord. they broke God's Covenant with them and led many astray. Malachi 2 speaks of this Covenant God promised to change.

Study for yourself, but don't isolate scriptures that don't align with your bias. Let them guide your footsteps instead.

 

[CatsRule2020]

Judaism - The Sabbath
This article proves that no one was obligated to observe God's day of rest before the Israelites received the command from Moses at Mt. Sinai.

The law that people violated, that made them evil continuously, was the same law that existed from our very beginning- the law of our conscience. It is referred to in Rom.2:12 and this spiritual law is mentioned in 1Jn.3:4 .

 

[Studyman]

Judaism - The Sabbath
This article proves that no one was obligated to observe God's day of rest before the Israelites received the command from Moses at Mt. Sinai.

The law that people violated, that made them evil continuously, was the same law that existed from our very beginning- the law of our conscience. It is referred to in Rom.2:12 and this spiritual law is mentioned in 1Jn.3:4 .

There is nowhere in the Bible that God's Commandments didn't include Loving your brother as yourself, or Keeping God's Sabbath Holy or discerning between what was created for food, and not for food..

Those who don't believe in the Sabbath of the Lord, will cling to teachers who reject it. Those who believe in the Sabbath of the Lord, will humble themselves to Him in honor of it.

It is written that Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, Statutes, Judgments and Laws.

You can promote a religious philosophy of man that preaches God's Commandments, Statutes, Laws and Judgments didn't include HIS Holy Sabbath if you choose to. This is certainly a popular religious philosophy in the religions of this world we were born into.

But the Bible doesn't suggest, imply or otherwise teach such a religious philosophy.