Ceremonial Law like circumcision -- vs moral law of TEN Comm with Sabbath for ALL

Cribstyl

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Here's what your comments responded too
lol, The law was given to the circumcision only. Being circumcised was a law and a commandment given to Abraham 430yrs before the law was given. Showing scriptures of the law being mentioned does not mean that Christians are under the law.

God's law that He personally wrote on stone, is meant for everyone. There are not two Gospels preached in scriptures.
God Himself said: I chose Israel, gave them my laws and Sabbath...... Your comments and isolating text say different from God.



Eze 20:5 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the LORD your God;
Eze 20:6 In the day that I lifted up mine hand unto them, to bring them forth of the land of Egypt into a land that I had espied for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands:



Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.
Eze 20:14 But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, in whose sight I brought them out.



God personally wrote His will for us and placed it in the Most Holy in God's Temple. These details are very important because God is showing us it's significance. God had an earthy Temple and a Heavenly Temple. Revelations 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

What is inside the ark of the covenant? God's law of love, the Ten commandments. Exodus 25:22

God does not have one will for one nation and another for other nations. He wants all of us to only worship Him, use His name sacredly, keep His Sabbath holy, not bow to idols, honor our parents, tell the truth, not steal or murder, these apply to everyone.

God is a God of love, His commandments are made from love, they are how we show God love and each other. God's laws are Perfect Psalms 19:7, James 1:25, Holy Romans 7:12, Love 1 Timothy 1:5, Romans 13:10, True Psalms 119:142, 151, Righteous Romans 8:4, Just Romans 7:12, Pure Psalms 19:8 God's has the same characteristics as His law, so when you try to do away with the Law of Love, God's commandments, you are essentially doing away with God. God gives us free will, He loves us all so very much He is never going to force His laws on us which are now written in the heart and are fulfilled when we obey. If you don't want to keep God's law of love on this earth- will you be happy in Heaven, because God's laws are eternal Psalms 89:34 just like God's Sabbath is eternal Exodus 31:16, Isaiah 66:23

1 John2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
I disagree with what you're saying.
 
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BobRyan

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You guys wouldn't recognize the gospel path if it bit you in the asterisk?
The just shall live by faith. For they are Dead to the law through their death to sin, the old man crucified that the body of sin be destroyed. Hence forth we shall not serve sin.
Released, serving in newness of spirit not oldness of letter. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.)
But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.




Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
Rom 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above.)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

True - the Law requires death for the sinner and all have sinned - in Christ all die the death that the law demands - which is the point in Rom 6:1-7 and in Romans 7:1-6.
 
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BobRyan

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HIM

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Show me that they agreed with that post?
I have some issues with your response here. You cant just say anything and wrap it up in scriptures. The laws written on the heart are not the one size fit all ten commandments.
Why would God write "thou shall not commit adultery on a 5yrs old child's heart?"
The tablets of stone would be a better place for commandments to a nation. It's a secret to some, that God's law on the heart is dynamic and personal to each person. God also said no one will have to tell you what to do because His indwelling Spirit will tell you. Does the law forbid using crack cocaine? Well, that might be written on someone's heart today. The prophecy in Jer 31:31-34 is intentionally abuse by those who want to mislead about the New Covenant.
Here is what the book of Jer says:
First thing, If God told you "I will give you a new car", How can you end up with the same old car? It would appear that something went wrong with God's promise.
Second thing. If God then said "It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt,"
If God said it wont be like it, how can you end up with the same covenant given to those who came out of slavery in Egypt?
It would appear that something else went wrong with God's promise.

I will continue in another post.
It is His Law, His Word that HE said is in our hearts through His Spirit through His Christ.

The Old covenant was a agreement between 2. The New is a statement from one. That is the difference.
The Ten and the laws pertaining to morality and health are forever and we will be guided by them through His Spirit through Christ through our Conscience until Judgment.
 
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HIM

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If you posted Rom 1:21,22,23 to complete Paul's statement, we'd know for sure that Paul is primarily talking about those whom God gave His laws.
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
But a simple four letter word is all that is needed to show it is much broader than you purport. So once again please note the word "from" in verse 20.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Paul was referencing
Psa 106:19 ¶They made a calf in Horeb and worshiped a metal image.
Psa 106:20They exchanged the glory of God for the image of an ox that eats grass.
Psa 106:21They forgot God, their Savior,who had done great things in Egypt,
That is Subjective. You can not prove that.
If you'd highlighted Gentiles which have not the law you be accurate.
Paul is saying when Gentile did the right thing, it's like they show the workings of the law is written on their hearts.
Somehow you want to hold them to a law they were never given.
Yet God said the work of the Law was in their hearts, excusing or accusing one another. Not that it is like, that it was.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Here's what your comments responded too
lol, The law was given to the circumcision only. Being circumcised was a law and a commandment given to Abraham 430yrs before the law was given. Showing scriptures of the law being mentioned does not mean that Christians are under the law.

God Himself said: I chose Israel, gave them my laws and Sabbath...... Your comments and isolating text say different from God.



Eze 20:5 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the LORD your God;
Eze 20:6 In the day that I lifted up mine hand unto them, to bring them forth of the land of Egypt into a land that I had espied for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands:



Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.
Eze 20:14 But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, in whose sight I brought them out.



I disagree with what you're saying.
Both the first and second covenant is written to Israel:

Jeremiah 31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

So are you saying you are not part of any Covenant of God and therefore do not receive the inheritance and promises of those covenants?

You see there is no Jew or Gentile if you are part of God’s Israel. God’s Israel is symbolic for God’s people. Those who believe and have faith in God and follow His Words.Galatians 3:26-29,Romans 2:27-28, Romans 4:13,

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 so unless you are not human it means the Sabbath includes you. God said keeping the Sabbath is a sign between Him and His people Ezekiel 20:20 I’m not sure about you, but I truly want to be one of God’s people.

The Sabbath will continue on for eternity Isaiah 66:23 as promised by our Savior Exodus 31:16 and it is a blessing and a delight. Look at this promise our Savior gives:

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.

The mouth of the Lord has spoken.

Many miss out on the blessing the Sabbath is meant to be.

God bless
 
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Cribstyl

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True - the Law requires death for the sinner and all have sinned - in Christ all die the death that the law demands - which is the point in Rom 6:1-7 and in Romans 7:1-6.
Since you bring up Rom 6 and 7...
You say that "in Christ all die the death that the law demands???"

(a)Can you clarify the death all die and the death that the law demands?

(b)Can you explain what law we're not under according to Rom 6?

(c) What does it mean we're under grace?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15¶What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

------------------------------------------------------------

Can I ask you a few questions about Rom 7:1-6?
 
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HIM

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If we have the Law, His Word in our hearts and minds through Christ we are no longer under the law serving it we are of the the Law because it is part of us. We do not do the things of the Law because we have to in service. We do the things of the Law because we want to because it is part of who we are in Christ Jesus. If have not and do not we are not.
 
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BobRyan

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Since you bring up Rom 6 and 7...
You say that "in Christ all die the death that the law demands???"

(a)Can you clarify the death all die and the death that the law demands?

(b)Can you explain what law we're not under according to Rom 6?

(c) What does it mean we're under grace?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15¶What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

------------------------------------------------------------

Can I ask you a few questions about Rom 7:1-6?

1. Rom 3:19-20 says all the world - all mankind to this very day continue to be "under the Law" if not under the Gospel. It points all mankind to their need of the gospel.

2. Rom 6 say that all who accept Christ - "died to sin"

Rom 6:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

UNDER Grace means - under the Gospel and that means the Jer 31:31-34 "New Covenant" having the LAW of God written on the heart - the Law known to Jeremiah -- a benefit of the New Heart, New Creation work of the Holy Spirit at conversion.

Rom 6
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
 
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BobRyan

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(b)Can you explain what law we're not under according to Rom 6?

The one that says "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
The one that says "honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2
The one that "Defines what sin is " 1 John 3:4
The one that "condemns all the world under sin for ALL have sinned" Rom 3

All have sinned so under God's eternal law ALL deserve the "wages of sin" Rom 6:23 - which is the second death Rev 20 - the lake of fire.

God's law defines what sin is.

"Obey and live" is the rule of the Old Covenant for those who break the command to "not take God's name in vain".

To remain without the Gospel is to be condemned by God's Law, under the Law = under the condemnation of the law - and doomed to the Lake of Fire.
 
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BobRyan

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(c) What does it mean we're under grace?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15¶What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

------------------------------------------------------------

Rom 8:4-12 tells us that the born again saints fulfill the Law and the lost "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"
 
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Cribstyl

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well you could go look at that post - for one.

And in my efforts to make this very easy - you could also look at my last post above -
3 minutes ago #62
Obviously, I was the first to agree or comment on his post. It's no big deal.
Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."NASB
Rom 4:15 "15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."KJV

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Rom 3:19-20 "through the LAW comes the knowledge of what sin is"

your argument is "with the text"

My argument is against using partial quotes to establish doctrines. Your Red highlighted words seem to be cooking up a doctrine. This is what I think you're trying to say.
if there is No law, then there is no sin, so sin is transgression of the law.

You must use partial quotes of scripture and ignore context or your teachings would fail.
...............................................................

Let's look again at the real lesson in context with Rom 4:15.

Rom 4:13¶For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Crib's comments on Rom4:13-15;

(verse13) God's promise to make Abraham father of many nations did not have the condition of keeping the law. (The law came 430yrs after the promise Gal 3:17)
The promise was based solely on righteousness by faith. It should be clear when and why the law was given. The law was added to the Abrahamic covenant because of sins. It was added to keep the people from losing the promise because of their sins.
Gal 3:17

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

(So now we can understand clearly that God added the law because the COI was sinning and going away from the promise. )

(verse14) If keeping the law was required to obtain God's everlasting promise, the promise would have changed to empty words.

(verse 15)
For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)

copyChkboxOff.gif
Rom 4:16
¶Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Conclusion : using partial quotes is the tool to highjack God's words for commentary.
Rom 4 is not teaching that Christian are under the law.
 
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BobRyan

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My argument is against using partial quotes to establish doctrines.

A great many doctrines are established without having to quote the entire Bible for each point someone wants to make. If your problem is with the detail of a text quoted - it is up to you to point to the detail that is a problem for you. The tactic of simply asking for the entire Bible or an entire book to be quoted is not realistic.

Your Red highlighted words seem to be cooking up a doctrine.

Those are not my words - they are the Bible and the highlight simply singles out the words that your view finds to be a problem in the text. You are free to explain how it fits you view if you like. But the text remains unchanged and the words are still God's - they are not my words.
 
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BobRyan

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Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."NASB
Rom 4:15 "15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."KJV


Your misguided intention is to say, if there is no law, there is no sin.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Rom 3:19-20 "through the LAW comes the knowledge of what sin is"

your argument is "with the text"

Rom 4:13¶For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Which once more illustrates my point - and your blue letter with highlight does not "change the detail" even though I have "red letters" where you have "blue".

More substance is needed in an argument.

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.

Your misguided intention is to say, if there is no law, there is no sin.

I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one -- you are free to choose as you wish.


Crib's comments on Rom4:13-15;

(verse13) God's promise to make Abraham father of many nations did not have the condition of keeping the law. (The law came 430yrs after the promise Gal 3:17)
The promise was based solely on righteousness by faith. It should be clear when and why the law was given. The law was added to the Abrahamic covenant because of sins. It was added to keep the people from losing the promise because of their sins.

Sins which could not have existed if God's Law did not exist. God points to Cain saying "SIN is at your door but you must master " Gen 4, and we know that "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law that comes in the form "written on stone" comes 430 years after God spoke that to Abraham but does NOT mean that it was not sin that caused the flood in Genesis 6 (which would be contrary to Genesis 6) and does NOT mean that was not a sin for Cain to kill Able in Gen 4.

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.
Law does not bring about wrath to those who are not in violation of that law.
1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law;

When there is No Law – there is no sin

the point remains.

(So now we can understand clearly that God added the law because the COI was sinning and going away from the promise. )

They could not sin against a law that did not exist. There would have been no sin. The context in Gal 3 is the writing of the Law on Stone not the false teaching that taking God's name in vain was not a sin for over 2000 until Ex 20:7

Robertson has it right. The text means what it says..

And the example you are selecting in Rom 4:15 perfectly illustrates the problem with your argument. The text says that where there is no law there is no sin - Robertson also states that clearly, and you clearly state that you have a problem with a text that says "where there is no law there is no sin".

Your misguided intention is to say, if there is no law, there is no sin.

It does not get any easier or more obvious than this.
 
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Cribstyl

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Rom 8:4-12 tells us that the born again saints fulfill the Law and the lost "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"
Obviously you're ignoring my Rom 6 questions.
Rom 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

a)What is the law of sin and death?
b) Explain why you're not free from the law of sin and death?


Rom 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
The law could not save. The law does does not promise eternal life.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Your comments are false because the righteous requirement of the law is death, not keeping the law. Christ condemned sin by dying for us. So, death is the righteous requirement of the law. You ignore that the law cant save us.
NLT version make it clear......
Rom 8:3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature.
Rom 8:4He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
 
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Cribstyl

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It is His Law, His Word that HE said is in our hearts through His Spirit through His Christ.
False for several reasons. The Book of Hebrew was written to Christians.(True or False)
Hebrews articulates several Christian doctrines. ( Our Great Hight Priest being one)
As you know the New Covenant is in force now, but you see the New Covenant as the Old Covenant written on the hearts.
a)You have to ignore the understanding that "New Covenant" means "not Old Covenant."
b)You have to ignore "not according to the covenant made with Israel" also means not the Old Covenant.
c) You have no choice but to select the prophesy version from Jeremiah 31:31-34 written to Israel and reject the NT versions of the New Covenant witnessed by the Holy Spirit.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(game over, you can't isolate the laws God writes on the hearts to the ten commandments.)

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

The Holy Ghost is a witness that God will write "His laws on their hearts" not "His law" meaning the ten commandment of the Old Covenant. The book Hebrews is part of the gospel written to Christian. We don't have the option to reject what the Holy Ghost has witnessed.
The Old covenant was a agreement between 2. The New is a statement from one. That is the difference.
The Ten and the laws pertaining to morality and health are forever and we will be guided by them through His Spirit through Christ through our Conscience until Judgment.
If God said "I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel", then the New Covenant is between 2. You cant just make up your criteria. That's why there are thousands of churches.

Hope this helps
 
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Cribstyl

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Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."NASB
Rom 4:15 "15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."KJV
Those who know what the context is teaching can see through your scheme to preach the law.



copyChkboxOff.gif
Rom 4:13
¶Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith.
Rom 4:14 If God’s promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless.
Rom 4:15 For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)
Rom 4:16¶So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.
Rom 4:17 That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, “I have made you the father of many nations.”[fn] This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who creates new things out of nothing.
(isolating a partial quote can be a deceptive attempt to change the truth into a lie.)
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 4:15 "... where there is no law, there also is no violation."

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Rom 3:19-20 "through the LAW comes the knowledge of what sin is"

your argument is "with the text"
Your partial text extravaganza are ripped from context. You don't recognize statements we must follow as doctrines. You're just using words to support your commentary. You're not innocent.

Which once more illustrates my point - and your blue letter with highlight does not "change the detail" even though I have "red letters" where you have "blue".

More substance is needed in an argument.

Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT -- Rom 4:15
Verse 15
Worketh wrath (οργην κατεργαζετα). Because of disobedience to it.

Neither is there transgression (ουδε παραβασις). "There is no responsibility for the violation of a non-existent law."

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.



I am going with the Bible and with Robertson on this one -- you are free to choose as you wish.




Sins which could not have existed if God's Law did not exist. God points to Cain saying "SIN is at your door but you must master " Gen 4, and we know that "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law that comes in the form "written on stone" comes 430 years after God spoke that to Abraham but does NOT mean that it was not sin that caused the flood in Genesis 6 (which would be contrary to Genesis 6) and does NOT mean that was not a sin for Cain to kill Able in Gen 4.

It demonstrates that Law existed in Genesis else there could be no sin in Genesis.
Law does not bring about wrath to those who are not in violation of that law.
1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law;

When there is No Law – there is no sin

the point remains.



They could not sin against a law that did not exist. There would have been no sin. The context in Gal 3 is the writing of the Law on Stone not the false teaching that taking God's name in vain was not a sin for over 2000 until Ex 20:7

Robertson has it right. The text means what it says..

And the example you are selecting in Rom 4:15 perfectly illustrates the problem with your argument. The text says that where there is no law there is no sin - Robertson also states that clearly, and you clearly state that you have a problem with a text that says "where there is no law there is no sin".



It does not get any easier or more obvious than this.
rest my case for now.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Those who know what the context is teaching can see through your scheme to preach the law.



copyChkboxOff.gif
Rom 4:13
¶Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith.
Rom 4:14 If God’s promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless.
Rom 4:15 For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)
Rom 4:16¶So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.
Rom 4:17 That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, “I have made you the father of many nations.”[fn] This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who creates new things out of nothing.
(isolating a partial quote can be a deceptive attempt to change the truth into a lie.)

Your partial text extravaganza are ripped from context. You don't recognize statements we must follow as doctrines. You're just using words to support your commentary. You're not innocent.

rest my case for now.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 
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