Ceremonial Law like circumcision -- vs moral law of TEN Comm with Sabbath for ALL

BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Rom 3:31 "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."

"Establish" does not mean "abolish" or "obsolete" - as it turns out.

Isolating Rom 3:31 from it's context (Rom3:21-31) is a scam that exposes deception.

1. Vilifying, falsely accusing and insulting someone for merely quoting Romans 3:31 is not a compelling "solution".
2. Far from "Isolating" Rom 3:31 from Rom 3:19-20 I "insist on CONNECTING" it.

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

God's Law defines what sin IS - 1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that Law includes the TEN having "the first commandment WITH a promise being the command - Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

The point remains.
 
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BobRyan

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You're ignoring that Paul is teaching in Rom 3
(v21)"From now on, Righteousness by faith is righteousness without the law. "
(22) This is the righteousness of God for all believers

(27) What? how can we claim to be righteous? without keeping a law? Our claim will be "faith in Jesus" and not by keeping the law.
(28) So we conclude that justification from sins will be by the law of faith and not by keeping the law.
(30) Both circumcision and uncircumcision will be justified by faith
(31) Wow, wont we destroy the law if justification is by faith? Not at all, living by faith establishes God intent for the law.

On the contrary - I insist that we "notice" who Rom 3:19-20 fits into Rom 3:31 and Rom 3:23 as already noted repeatedly including here -
2 minutes ago #21
 
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BobRyan

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You're ignoring that Paul is teaching in Rom 3
(v21)"From now on, Righteousness by faith is righteousness without the law. "
(22) This is the righteousness of God for all believers

(27) What? how can we claim to be righteous? without keeping a law? Our claim will be "faith in Jesus" and not by keeping the law.
(28) So we conclude that justification from sins will be by the law of faith and not by keeping the law.
(30) Both circumcision and uncircumcision will be justified by faith
(31) Wow, wont we destroy the law if justification is by faith? Not at all, living by faith establishes God intent for the law.

Rom 3:21


But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

Rom 3:22

the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Rom 3:23

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Rom 3:24


In Rom 3 Paul shows not only that the Law condemns all mankind - still ... to this very day - such that the only solution is the Gospel, but he also shows that the Gospel solution "establishes the Law" - because under the New Covenant it is written on the heart (Heb 8:6-12)


Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Correct - notice how it is the Rom 3:19-20 Law is established in Rom 3:31
 
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BobRyan

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Under the New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 the "Law" is written on the heart.

Under the New Covenant Heb 8:6-13 the "Law" is written on the heart since it is a verbatim quote of Jer 31:31-34 - unchanged from OT to NT

Must be joking, What part of "New Covenant"

You will need to get to see the actual quote of the text then... This IS the NEW Covenant according to scripture.

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

That is the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

It writes the "Law of God" (known to Jeremiah and his readers), on the heart and mind. And Paul reminds us that this includes that Law where "the first commandment with a promise is the command to Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

No wonder the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Sectn 19 fully supports that Bible fact.
No wonder the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 - fully supports that Bible fact.
 
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BobRyan

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Rom 3:21

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

Rom 3:22

the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

Rom 3:23

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Rom 3:24

and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Rom 3:25

whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Rom 3:26

It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 3:27


Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:28

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Rom 3:29

Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,

Rom 3:30

since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

Rom 3:31

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Your quote of Rom 3 verses above - does not show how it helps your point.

Even for Paul - "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 which means he considered taking God's name in vain - Ex 20:7 to still be "a sin" even for a Christian. 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rom 2:13 "doers of the Law - will be justified"
 
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Cribstyl

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BobRyan said:
Rom 3:31 "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."
"Establish" does not mean "abolish" or "obsolete" - as it turns out.
In this context Paul is not saying the law is abolished or obsolete. You're raising a false narrative for your denial and confusion of the doctrine of faith being taught. You're ignoring the context.
What do you say when Paul teaches "we're not under the law."?

Rom 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
So in Rom 3:31, Paul is saying "living by faith though grace does not nullify the law, it establish what the law teaches. " How??? The law still labels sin, but we're not under the law because the penalty of the law is death. You cant and wont quote texts saying we're not under the law because your teaching will fail. This is taught in Romans, 1Corinthians and Galatians.

1. Vilifying, falsely accusing and insulting someone for merely quoting Romans 3:31 is not a compelling "solution".
2. Far from "Isolating" Rom 3:31 from Rom 3:19-20 I "insist on CONNECTING" it.
Toughen up buttercup, you can take a joke.

When isolated, words can appear to say anything. The fact that Paul is teaching that we're delivered from the law, throws a monkey wrench in your explanation of which laws are no longer in force. Anyone can see that Rom3:31 is a final comment of the doctrine of faith which you ignore.
Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

God's Law defines what sin IS - 1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Where that Law includes the TEN having "the first commandment WITH a promise being the command - Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

The point remains.
You're the one missing the points in your presented lesson. verse 20 teaches that No man will be saved by doing what the law says, because the law only explains the sin you commit. The law does not offer salvation, it only condemns
 
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SabbathBlessings

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In this context Paul is not saying the law is abolished or obsolete. You're raising a false narrative for your denial and confusion of the doctrine of faith being taught. You're ignoring the context.
What do you say when Paul teaches "we're not under the law."?

Rom 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
So in Rom 3:31, Paul is saying "living by faith though grace does not nullify the law, it establish what the law teaches. " How??? The law still labels sin, but we're not under the law because the penalty of the law is death. You cant and wont quote texts saying we're not under the law because your teaching will fail. This is taught in Romans, 1Corinthians and Galatians.

Toughen up buttercup, you can take a joke.

When isolated, words can appear to say anything. The fact that Paul is teaching that we're delivered from the law, throws a monkey wrench in your explanation of which laws are no longer in force. Anyone can see that Rom3:31 is a final comment of the doctrine of faith which you ignore.
Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
You're the one missing the points in your presented lesson. verse 20 teaches that No man will be saved by doing what the law says, because the law only explains the sin you commit. The law does not offer salvation, it only condemns


Jesus said: If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

We do not keep God's laws to be saved, its a fruit of our faith. I don't see how anyone can claim to love Jesus and think it's okay to sin freely. Being faithful and obedient is how we express our love to God, according to Jesus. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

Grace is God's free gift given though our faith. Ephesians 2:8

When you have real faith in Jesus, you will trust the Lord with all your heart and mind and when you trust someone, do you show that when you listen and obey or disobey?
 
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Cribstyl

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Jesus said: If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

We do not keep God's laws to be saved, its a fruit of our faith. I don't see how anyone can claim to love Jesus and think it's okay to sin freely. Being faithful and obedient is how we express our love to God, according to Jesus. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

Grace is God's free gift given though our faith. Ephesians 2:8

When you have real faith in Jesus, you will trust the Lord with all your heart and mind and when you trust someone, do you show that when you listen and obey or disobey?
Lol, Any comments on Rom 3:18-31?
The only fruit of trying to keep the law is death. Noone but Jesus has ever kept the law. Who thinks it's OK to sin? We express our love to God by believing in Jesus Christ.
Jhn 8:42

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

Jhn 12:44

Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.

Jhn 12:45

The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

Jhn 12:46

I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

Jhn 12:47

“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Jhn 12:48

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Jhn 12:49

For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Jhn 12:50

I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

My point is this: The bible teaches us to have faith is Jesus. You appear as teaching us to have faith in keeping the law.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Lol, Any comments on Rom 3:18-31?
The only fruit of trying to keep the law is death. Noone but Jesus has ever kept the law. Who thinks it's OK to sin? We express our love to God by believing in Jesus Christ.
Jhn 8:42

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

Jhn 12:44

Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.

Jhn 12:45

The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

Jhn 12:46

I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

Jhn 12:47

“If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Jhn 12:48

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Jhn 12:49

For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Jhn 12:50

I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
It’s not something I would laugh about, but we all have free will.

Romans 3 it is saying we all have sinned and why we have a need for a Savior. Without the law, we do not need grace.

The conclusion Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

And Paul again says: What matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

Paul is not deleting God’s laws and either does Jesus. Mathew 5:17-20, John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:8, Mathew 7:21-23, Mathew 19:17-19, Revelations 22:14,1, Revelations 14:12
 
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Cribstyl

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Under the New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 the "Law" is written on the heart.

Under the New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 the "Law" is written on the heart.



You will need to get to see the actual quote of the text then... This IS the NEW Covenant according to scripture.

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

That is the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

It writes the "Law of God" (known to Jeremiah and his readers), on the heart and mind. And Paul reminds us that this includes that Law where "the first commandment with a promise is the command to Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

No wonder the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Sectn 19 fully supports that Bible fact.
No wonder the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 - fully supports that Bible fact.
Is this how God's word get rightly divided nowadays?
 
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Cribstyl

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It’s not something I would laugh about, but we all have free will.
The laugh is because asking you to comment on a specific passage of the scriptures should help us understand what is being said therein. If your comments are outside Rom 3:17-31, it's somewhat funny to me.
Romans 3 it is saying we all have sinned and why we have a need for a Savior. Without the law, we do not need grace.

The conclusion Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Is that what you got from Rom 3? Don't you see the doctrine of Justification by faith? It says plainly that we're saved by Grace through faith without the law.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Notice what Paul says the conclusion of his doctrinal statement is.
And Paul again says: What matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

Paul is not deleting God’s laws and either does Jesus. Mathew 5:17-20, John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:8, Mathew 7:21-23, Mathew 19:17-19, Revelations 22:14,1, Revelations 14:12
LOL, Obviously you and others have an agenda by stacking soundbites about keeping the law. Why can I say that? 1 Cor 7:19 is NOT talking about the law. It's explaining to the Corinthians that their questions about marriage and how to treat women are commandments from God to keep.
In this context, (1Cor 7) when Paul added his personal opinion he made it clear by saying.
1Co 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

Again, You've isolated Paul and John for your commentary about keeping the law and you've ignored that context is not talking about keeping the law(same as in Rom 3).
I have to laugh because I haven't been able to get you to say what's written other than your out of context cherry pickings.

I still love you and hope that one day we can focus on 1verse only.
 
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HIM

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You guys wouldn't recognize the gospel path if it bit you in the asterisk.

Rom 7:1-7 cannot be edited from the conversation of what the gospel teaches.
What part of 'died to the law' and 'released from the law' don't you understand?
Why does you narrative avoid what Jesus send Paul to teach as doctrine?
Rom 7:4¶Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Rom 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[fn]

Claiming that Jesus is your example is a scam argument to mislead people from what the bible teaches.
You guys wouldn't recognize the gospel path if it bit you in the asterisk?
The just shall live by faith. For they are Dead to the law through their death to sin, the old man crucified that the body of sin be destroyed. Hence forth we shall not serve sin.
Released, serving in newness of spirit not oldness of letter. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.)
But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.




Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
Rom 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above.)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The laugh is because asking you to comment on a specific passage of the scriptures should help us understand what is being said therein. If your comments are outside Rom 3:17-31, it's somewhat funny to me.
Is that what you got from Rom 3? Don't you see the doctrine of Justification by faith? It says plainly that we're saved by Grace through faith without the law.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Notice what Paul says the conclusion of his doctrinal statement is.
LOL, Obviously you and others have an agenda by stacking soundbites about keeping the law. Why can I say that? 1 Cor 7:19 is NOT talking about the law. It's explaining to the Corinthians that their questions about marriage and how to treat women are commandments from God to keep.
In this context, (1Cor 7) when Paul added his personal opinion he made it clear by saying.
1Co 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

Again, You've isolated Paul and John for your commentary about keeping the law and you've ignored that context is not talking about keeping the law(same as in Rom 3).
I have to laugh because I haven't been able to get you to say what's written other than your out of context cherry pickings.

I still love you and hope that one day we can focus on 1verse only.
The law is spoken about throughout the Bible. Paul did not command the law, God did. God is our authorativie. Paul in all his writings is not doing away with God's eternal commandments. Many misunderstand Paul's writing and typically use quotes from Paul when trying to delete the law despite Paul very clearly telling us what matters is keeping God's laws 1 Corinthians 7:19. Paul does not preach a different gospel from one chapter to another. The bible does not begin or end with Paul writings. Paul often is referring to the law of Moses and not the Ten commandments which many confuse or don't care.

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments. The disciples told us it is better to obey God than man. Acts 5:29 Paul cannot save you, only God can.

We share these scriptures to help, while we are not saved by keeping God's laws, its how we express our love for God according to scriptures. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6 We keep the law because we have faith in Jesus and we believe in His Words. We have free will and God is not going to force you to obey, but grace is God's free gift to give or not give and Jesus teaches us to obey and to take the narrow path. God bless
 
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Cribstyl

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You guys wouldn't recognize the gospel path if it bit you in the asterisk?
The just shall live by faith. For they are Dead to the law through their death to sin, the old man crucified that the body of sin be destroyed. Hence forth we shall not serve sin.
Released, serving in newness of spirit not oldness of letter. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.)
But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.




Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
Rom 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above.)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
Well done, I'm in agreement.
 
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HIM

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So even in the NT "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
That is a terrible translation my friend. There is no Greek word in the text that should be translated "their". The Greek word is τὴν. It is equivalent to the definite article "the" in English and in this verse it is SINGULAR not plural. It should be translated "the faith of Jesus"



τὴν The
πίστιν Faith
Ἰησοῦ Of Jesus.
 
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Cribstyl

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The law is spoken about throughout the Bible.
Paul did not command the law, God did. God is our authorativie. Paul in all his writings is not doing away with God's eternal commandments.
Jesus is also spoken about throughout the bible. If Jesus appeared to Paul and set Paul apart as an apostle to the Gentiles, is Paul's word less authoritative? Where should Gentiles find what God requires of them?
Is God's word through Paul less authoritative?
Many misunderstand Paul's writing and typically use quotes from Paul when trying to delete the law despite Paul very clearly telling us what matters is keeping God's laws 1 Corinthians 7:19. Paul does not preach a different gospel from one chapter to another. The bible does not begin or end with Paul writings. Paul often is referring to the law of Moses and not the Ten commandments which many confuse or don't care.
Paul's writing are letters to churches, not verses to Isolate for commentary. Your abuse of 1Cor 7:19 exposes your motives to find soundbites about the law. Paul is not talking about the ten commandments but you are.
There is no separation, the law of Moses contains the ten commandments.

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments. The disciples told us it is better to obey God than man. Acts 5:29 Paul cannot save you, only God can.
I label your comments as fiction. Did Jesus mean the ten or what He was commanding His disciples at that time?
The gospel was given to Paul just as the law was given to Moses.
Epistle to the Romans has the principle doctrines of Christianity.
Your doctrines would fail if you stay in context.
We share these scriptures to help, while we are not saved by keeping God's laws, its how we express our love for God according to scriptures. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6 We keep the law because we have faith in Jesus and we believe in His Words. We have free will and God is not going to force you to obey, but grace is God's free gift to give or not give and Jesus teaches us to obey and to take the narrow path. God bless
Your comments abuses the scriptures you post. One day, God will hold you accountable.
 
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Cribstyl

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@SabbathBlessings @LGW
Where the doctrines of sin is found, we learn plainly that from Adam to Moses, sin was in the world before the law was given. (Rom 5:13) Your teachings reject that Adam had only 1 commandment from God. By claiming that Adam was commanded to keep the Sabbath (creation instituted), you always post a group to isolated text to say the law was kept but looking at your texts exposes your motives and contradictions. God sent a flood and explained why. Did He say, they broke my law? You cannot prove the law was given before Moses but you're caught trying to explain away the truth.

You both reject Paul's doctrine of sin and rather establish a partial quote from 1John 3:4 as a premise to the doctrine of sin, that: Sin is transgression of the law. Your misguided intention is to say, if there is no law, there is no sin.
Gospel truth is this;
Rom 5:12¶Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


Hope this helps
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Jesus is also spoken about throughout the bible. If Jesus appeared to Paul and set Paul apart as an apostle to the Gentiles is Paul's word less authoritative? Where should Gentiles find what God requires of them?
Is God's word through Paul is authoritative?
Paul's writing are letters to churches, not verses to Isolate for commentary. Your abuse of 1Cor 7:19 exposes your motives to find soundbites about the law. Paul is not talking about the ten commandments but you are.

I label your comments as fiction. Did Jesus mean the ten or what He was commanding His disciples at that time?
The gospel was given to Paul just as the law was given to Moses.
Epistle to the Romans has the principle doctrines of Christianity.
Your doctrines would fail if you stay in context.
Your comments abuses the scriptures you post. One day, God will hold you accountable.

Paul is not preaching a different gospel than Jesus or the other disciples. Paul does not preach a different gospel from one chapter to another and Paul is not deleting God's laws that we are told are eternal Psalms 89:34

I am sorry if you do not like the scriptures I posted they are direct quotes from Jesus. I do not need to interpret them, as they speak plainly.

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

Jesus does not have a different will than His Father. John 6:38, John 14:31, John 5:19, John 1:1, John 10:30 God's commandments are eternal Psalms 89:34 so Jesus is telling us to keep all of His commandments(s) which includes the 4th commandment which most want to forget for some reason, despite God asking us to REMEMBER.

If I have abused the scriptures as you claim, than that will be between me and God as He is the one who will righteously Judge me and you.

Jesus tells us though that we should teach His commandments and has some strong words for those who teach others to break His commandments.

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Maybe something to pray about.
 
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BobRyan

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That is a terrible translation my friend. There is no Greek word in the text that should be translated "their". The Greek word is τὴν. It is equivalent to the definite article "the" in English and in this verse it is SINGULAR not plural. It should be translated "the faith of Jesus"



τὴν The
πίστιν Faith
Ἰησοῦ Of Jesus.

I agree with you - but having the "faith OF Jesus" can only be accomplished by first having "faith IN Jesus". So the term used in Rev 14 is a more advanced concept -- showing that faith IN Jesus actually leads to having the "faith OF Jesus".


- but I quote it that way to point out to those who stick "either-or" into "Commandments of God" vs "faith in Jesus" so they get the point that this is not speaking against "faith IN Jesus".
 
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SabbathBlessings

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@SabbathBlessings @LGW
Where the doctrines of sin is found, we learn plainly that from Adam to Moses, sin was in the world before the law was given. (Rom 5:13) Your teachings reject that Adam had only 1 commandment from God. By claiming that Adam was commanded to keep the Sabbath (creation instituted), you always post a group to isolated text to say the law was kept but looking at your texts exposes your motives and contradictions. God sent a flood and explained why. Did He say, they broke my law? You cannot prove the law was given before Moses but you're caught trying to explain away the truth.

You both reject Paul's doctrine of sin and rather establish a partial quote from 1John 3:4 as a premise to the doctrine of sin, that: Sin is transgression of the law. Your misguided intention is to say, if there is no law, there is no sin.
Gospel truth is this;
Rom 5:12¶Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


Hope this helps


Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Man was created on the sixth day and the next day was God's Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3 How Glorious must that have been for our first parents to worship God on His Sabbath with God present, just like we will again once there is no more sin Isaiah 66:23
 
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