Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

[John Mullally]

I was hoping you would provide a few examples, that I may examine them.

I don't want to divert from the OP topic, but you keep asking. Here in your Post #562 on this thread, you agree with me (in the gray background) that God does not want any to perish - which is in contradiction to the L in TULIP - Limited atonement.

 

[Clare73]

I don't want to divert from the OP topic, but you keep asking. Here in your Post #562 on this thread, you agree with me (in the gray background) that God does not want any to perish - which is in contradiction to the L in TULIP - Limited atonement.

Did you check out Dt 29:29?

 

[John Mullally]

Did you check out Dt 29:29?

That which is plainly declared by Peter and Paul in the NT is a revealed thing, not a secret thing.

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.​

 

[Clare73]

That which is plainly declared by Peter and Paul in the NT is a revealed thing, not a secret thing.

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.​

Yes, 2 Peter 3:8 and 1 Timothy 2:2 are the revealed will of God.

And then there is the will of God for those whose identity is a secret (John 6:65; John 6:37; John 10:28-29), reserved for God; i.e., the redeemed.

 

[Clare73]

Hm, exactly what are saying?

Loss of heaven or fear of hell could not make me believe.

 

[zoidar]

Loss of heaven or fear of hell could not make me believe.

What could?

 

[zoidar]

...

You got a beautiful name Clare, if that is your real name. I googled its meaning:

"Medieval English vernacular form of Clara, from the Latin clara, feminine of clarus, "bright, shining, clear", a post-classical name made famous by the 13th century Saint Clara (Clare) of Assisi."

Clare - Wiktionary

 

[Clare73]

What could?

Only the powerful witness of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Clare73]

You got a beautiful name Clare, if that is your real name. I googled its meaning:

"Medieval English vernacular form of Clara, from the Latin clara, feminine of clarus, "bright, shining, clear", a post-classical name made famous by the 13th century Saint Clara (Clare) of Assisi."

Clare - Wiktionary

Thanks. . .like Saint Francis of Assisi?

 

[Clare73]

A mature Bible student knows to take the whole of Scripture, not just parts of It.

Lest they end up on the road to Damascus.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Exercise your freewill and get off that road.

Luke 16:19-31 is a parable about the OT and "hellfire," reflecting OT belief in Hades (Luke 16:23), which Jesus affirms, using it to teach two things:
1) fire is the destiny of the damned, and
2) repentance is not possible after death (Luke 16:27-31)--no universalism.

And you'll find the description of "hell" in Luke 16:23-24 in the "sorrows of hell" in Deuteronomy 32:22, Psalms 18:5, and "destruction of hell" in Proverbs 15:11, 27:20.

 

[RickReads]

Oh. . .OK. . .the word "impute" threw me off.

Try Romans 4:8 and 5:13, the word impute is used to describe sin of every kind.

 

[Servus]

I think Luke 16:19-31 is probably a parable about Jews and Gentiles rather than meant as a literal story about hell. Both parables in Luke 16 start out with "There was a certain rich man". The rich man represents the Pharisees. Lazarus represents the Gentiles. What was given to the Jews is now being given to the Gentiles.

 

[Clare73]

Try Romans 4:8 and 5:13, the word impute is used to describe sin of every kind.

Yes, it means to reckon, account, credit to.

But it doesn't mean "repent," right?

 

[Clare73]

I think Luke 16:19-31 is probably a parable about Jews and Gentiles rather than meant as a literal story about hell. Both parables in Luke 16 start out with "There was a certain rich man". The rich man represents the Pharisees. Lazarus represents the Gentiles. What was given to the Jews is now being given to the Gentiles.

It's about the point made in the last verse, v.31, unbelief of the Jews even with Jesus coming back from the dead, and the sufficiency of Scripture to save, there being more power in the word of God to save (v.29) than in miracles (v.30).

 

[RickReads]

Yes, it means to reckon, account, credit to.

But it doesn't mean "repent," right?

I believe repentance is necessary as a qualifier. The Bible says to confess sin. I dont know how you do that without repentance.

 

[Servus]

I've read and heard several differing interpretations of it. Some even insist that it's not a parable and completely litteral.

 

[RickReads]

I've read and heard several differing interpretations of it. Some even insist that it's not a parable and completely litteral.

Jesus was speaking publically so it had to be a parable.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think Luke 16:19-31 is probably a parable about Jews and Gentiles rather than meant as a literal story about hell. Both parables in Luke 16 start out with "There was a certain rich man". The rich man represents the Pharisees. Lazarus represents the Gentiles. What was given to the Jews is now being given to the Gentiles.

I believe Jesus' parables, as well as most of the parables in the Old Testament, were real events.

 

[AV1611VET]

I've read and heard several differing interpretations of it. Some even insist that it's not a parable and completely litteral.

That is correct.

 

[AV1611VET]

Jesus was speaking publically so it had to be a parable.

Luke 16 is not a parable.

And even if it was, it was a real event Jesus witnessed.