How to walk in the Spirit.

[fhansen]

That's been the way I have seen it all along. That no matter what we do or how we appear, God sees past all that. Like when it's just you and God alone together, what does God see when He looks at you. Really more like looks into you.

But even that carries uncertainty because how you see yourself and how God sees you can be two very different things. How many think they're being righteous and obedient, when they're not really? Or are falling short of the mark and what is the mark?

And we’ll “know them by their love”, and the fruits of that love. But we’re limited, as humans, and whether we’re assessing ourselves or anyone else we just do the best we can, and keep trying to get more honest and real about it with Gods help.

 

[Servus]

The OP's theology is what seems the most simple and direct. If you're born-again, then you're born-again, period end of story. No other conditions or clauses are added.

 

[Servus]

And we’ll “know them by their love”, and the fruits of that love. But we’re limited, as humans, and whether we’re assessing ourselves or anyone else we just do the best we can, and keep trying to get more honest and real about it with Gods help.

Unlike the OP's theology, that still leaves room for questions and can't be objectively defined and pinned down - at least for me.

 

[fhansen]

The OP's theology is what seems the most simple and direct. If you're born-again, then you're born-again, period end of story. No other conditions or clauses are added.

Yes it would be a terrible thing for God to actually expect anything good out of His people, to put conditions on them of any kind. It’s much better if we just make sure we see ourselves as righteous-no matter what! That’s easier for one thing. Kinda like positive thinking.

 

[fhansen]

Unlike the OP's theology, that still leaves room for questions and can't be objectively defined and pinned down - at least for me.

Ok, sorry, just some biblical quotes there, about fruit and all.

 

[fhansen]

People throw terms around like “born again”, or “elect”, and like to see themselves as part of this or that group, maybe considering themselves to have had some special spiritual experience or another. But while these terms point to being set apart, which is certainly a good thing, the truth of our faith is quite simple. We get right with God, and then begin to walk uprightly, and keep walking in that direction for the rest of our lives, as best we can. Drama may be fun now and then but that’s the practical truth. Again,
“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.”

 

[apollosdtr]

So, don't try to come to God by being good, or by keeping commandments or The Law.
He wont accept you. In fact you offend God by trying to save yourself with commandment keeping legalism.

Rev.12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. ... 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. ... 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

John.14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

Duteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto [Moses], and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. 19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto My words which He shall speak in My name, I will require [it] of him.

 

[Sidon]

Does Catholicism teach that there will be two separate judgements? The Great White Throne Judgement for the lost and the The Judgment Seat of Christ for the saved? If so then I'd say Colossians 1:22-23 would be referring to the latter judgement according to OSAS.

It seems to get overlooked a lot that we are told that the saved will punished here on Earth and that we will face judgment in Heaven. That we will have to stand before Christ, look Him in the eye, and give an accounting of our life.

If we are born again, then we don't face God as Judge in eternity.
We meet him as FATHER.

If we are this.... John 3:36. and we die like that, then we meet God : Revelation 20:11.
He is JUDGE and not Father.
He will judge all Christ rejectors for that sin, and they will never have a 2nd chance to believe.
I can't imagine the terror and the blown minds, of people who went to hell today, who are there thinking......[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], I KNEW IT WAS TRUE, I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT, I WAS TOLD ALL MY LIFE,......[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], WHY DIDNT I BELIEVE.....I KNEW IT WAS TRUE !!!!

That's a situation that i THANK GOD, i dont have to deal with. !

So.
The meeting we have with Christ is not to discuss our sin, as He has already dealt with that on the Cross.
But, this "bema" seat meeting, is a place of rewards.
Its a judgment for rewards.
See, we are supposed to be living for the Lord, because this is our discipleship. = God is evaluating us and planning on rewarding us.
This is the meeting we have with Jesus. He, who is God, is going to evaluate what we did "in His Body".
In other words, He'll look at all the works we did for Him down here, all the good deeds......and He will evaluate them, based on knowing the intent and the motive for all we did.
God knows your thoughts, and the intent of your heart, right now, so, He'll have no issue with that when you meet Him, reader.

Here is an example.
Im talking to people about the Cross, and about their theology, for many years.
Well, all these years, did i do it because of Love for the person, the group, the members, the congregation ? Did i always do all my teaching and preaching, out of a pure motive and love for Jesus?

Well, He will evaluate this when i meet Him, and that which was done with a pure motive, get's rewarded.
That which was done for other reasons, is "wood, hay, and stubble".

Same for you, Reader.

 

[Sidon]

Well folks we’ve established that Sidon teaches that if a person who believes that Jesus paid for all his sins is killed in the act of killing Christians he’s still saved and now a person doesn’t even have to believe as long as he believed at some point in his life he is saved.
‬‬

Its unfortunate that all you want to do is try to win an argument.
See, that's your fail, and that is why you don't hear.
So, you end up, not winning an argument that you are desperate to win, and what is worse is that you are not able to hear through all that flesh.

Listen, What i teach is what Paul teaches.
And i noticed that you left out the main part... during your false accusation.
You said....."as long as he has believed".

So, there is your error, found in your post.
See, the "devil's believe", and what good does it do them.
None.
And why? Its because they can't be born again.

The part you keep leaving out, is the "born again" part.
Is this because you are not?
I notice that in all your insults to me, or your accusations, you never ever talk about the Cross, or the BLood of Jesus, or being Born Again.
I talk about it endlessly, and you only post opposition.
People here notice this, bnr32fan.

So, There must be a reason for that....
There must be a reason regarding you hearing me teach about God's Grace as the BLood of Jesus, constantly, and yet you have no inner witness, no ability to relate, and can only try to argue against the blood atonement's power to keep all the redeemed, redeemed, in all your posts.

So, i think that the members here, have seen this.... about you.
I certainly have.

 

[Servus]

Yes it would be a terrible thing for God to actually expect anything good out of His people, to put conditions on them of any kind. It’s much better if we just make sure we see ourselves as righteous-no matter what! That’s easier for one thing. Kinda like positive thinking.

God obviously expects things from His people, which is why they are punished now and judged by Christ later. I don't know about you, but having to stand before Christ on His Judgement Seat and give an account of what I did with what He gave me, is something I face with fear and trembling.

 

[Sidon]

Yes, of course I'll deny that-because its nonsense. Let me put it this way: salvation has absolutely and exactly nothing to do with how we "see" ourselves, but everything to do with how we are.

Maybe you should pay more attention to what i actually write.
For example, ive never said that our Salvation is how we "see ourselves".
Where do you get this stuff?
Do you just make it up?
What i said is that to see ourselves as God sees us, as "the righteousness OF GOD, IN CHRIST".... is how we begin to exist in the renewed mind.

Pay more attention.
Perhaps that is your issue all along.

 

[fhansen]

God obviously expects things from His people, which is why they are punished now and judged by Christ later. I don't know about you, but having to stand before Christ on His Judgement Seat and give an account of what I did with what He gave me, is something I face with fear and trembling.

Well, we work it out now then, with some fear and trembling. I’d rather stand in front of Him knowing that I at least loved fairly well, with His help, than to have buried His gifts and stand as a dung heap who’s just seen himself as snow covered, or blood covered. Any so-called faith that we refer to won’t do us much good when He asks what we did with it, how we completed it.

 

[Sidon]

And I'm not disbelieving you. But then you should understand what it means to say that eternal life is to know God and his Son, and yet you challenged me on that for some reason in your post #498.

Again you are making stuff up.
Why do you do this?
I have never said on this FOURM< or in any Church, anywhere in this world, that "eternal life is to KNOW God".

A Born again person, does not have eternal life, because they Know God.
They have it, because they have JESUS IN THEM who IS Their eternal life.
He is Eternal Life, and if you have Him in YOU< then you have eternal life.

 

[fhansen]

Maybe you should pay more attention to what i actually write.
For example, ive never said that our Salvation is how we "see ourselves".
Where do you get this stuff?
Do you just make it up?
What i said is that to see ourselves as God sees us, as "the righteousness OF GOD, IN CHRIST".... is how we begin to exist in the renewed mind.

Pay more attention.
Perhaps that is your issue all along.

If you’re affirming that God will judge us on how we’ve changed, on how we are, on how we’ve received and grown in love to put it simply, then we’d agree. We have our obligation, in response to His initiative.

 

[fhansen]

Again you are making stuff up.
Why do you do this?
I have never said on this FOURM< or in any Church, anywhere in this world, that "eternal life is to KNOW God".

A Born again person, does not have eternal life, because they Know God.
They have it, because they have JESUS IN THEM who IS Their eternal life.
He is Eternal Life, and if you have Him in YOU< then you have eternal life.

Read the posts. I didn’t say that you said it. I said it, and you challenged it. And Jesus said that eternal life is to know God in John 17:3. We don’t have eternal life unless we know Him, in fact.

 

[Servus]

Well, we work it out now then, with some fear and trembling. I’d rather stand in front of Him knowing that I at least loved fairly well, with His help, than to have buried His gifts and stand as a dung heap who’s just seen himself as snow covered, or blood covered. Any so-called faith that we refer to won’t do us much good when He asks what we did with it, how we completed it.

The point I'm making is that I don't need to be threatened with losing my salvation and being sent to Hell, to motivate me spiritually. The knowledge that there's punishment in this life and a possible lack of rewards in eternity, is motivation enough for me, as far as that type of reinforcement goes.

 

[Servus]

If you’re affirming that God will judge us on how we’ve changed, on how we are, on how we’ve received and grown in love to put it simply, then we’d agree. We have our obligation, in response to His initiative.

The theology he's teaching, as I understand it, is not about believing that we don't have an obligation and that there aren't serious consequences involved.

 

[fhansen]

The point I'm making is that I don't need to be threatened with losing my salvation and being sent to Hell, to motivate me spiritually. The knowledge that there's punishment in this life and a possible lack of rewards in eternity, is motivation enough for me, as far as that type of reinforcement goes.

The lack of rewards thing is overplayed IMO. A Christian just wants to meet God “face to face”, to know Him fully. Anything else is fluff comparatively speaking. Either way, unless there’s a real difference between a Christian and a non-Christian in terms of who we are, in terms of our righteousness, our love, then it seems that our “faith” would’ve been nonproductive, and I doubt God will recognize us as His in any case.

 

[Servus]

The lack of rewards thing is overplayed IMO. A Christian just wants to meet God “face to face”, to know Him fully. Anything else is fluff comparatively speaking. Either way, unless there’s a real difference between a Christian and a non-Christian in terms of who we are, in terms of our righteousness, our love, then it seems that our “faith” would’ve been nonproductive, and I doubt God will recognize us as His in any case.

You seem to see it as if Christians don't have the threat of having their salvation taken away from them hanging over their heads, they'll be unproductive. Is that really what you require to motivate you to grow spiritually?

 

[fhansen]

The theology he's teaching, as I understand it, is not about believing that we don't have an obligation and that there aren't serious consequences involved.

Im trying to find the common ground. If, in faith we accept Gods offer of forgiveness and enter His family then He changes us, and continues to do so as we continue to want it, and so to cooperate in doing His will. We must remain in Him and He in us. If, instead, we were to persist in sin we will separate ourselves from Him all over again.