Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

Derek1234

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No, it doesn't predate Day One. It is included in Day One.In the beginning, God created a mass of seawater in the hollow of His hand.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

1. That is why the earth is "without form and void" -- it's a mass of water. (Unless you want to claim the earth was plano-convex at the time.)

2. He made it seawater, because seawater contains all the natural elements in the Periodic Table. Thus, when the time came, He simply ordered the atoms in the water to link up in the proper order, and behold: the landmass (called "Eden" or "Pangaea," if you prefer) was called forth.

This seawater, I like to call "terra aqua".

3. Notice He is "comprehending the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighing the mountains and hills"? This purports to the Holy Spirit going to and fro on this "terra aqua" and getting the proper measurements for the landmass ("terra firma") that will soon be created.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Notice the Spirit is "moving" upon the face of the waters; not "hovering" as Satan's translations say. Anyone who pilots a helicopter would know the difference between "moving" and "hovering."

And as I said, the Spirit is moving to and fro, getting information to use when the right time comes for terra firma to be created.
I see. So "in the beginning" is a catch-all for everything, despite v5 clearly stating "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." So you see, according to Scripture - if one wishes to interpret it literally - Day 1's work was ordering day and night. Indeed, it was creating day and night. But I guess that's a little inconvenient for you.

To be honest, this has long been a dialogue of the deaf. You're welcome to believe that only the KJV is inspired (I have no idea why Satan - who is a limited creature - should have so much power that he should have mobilised translations that inspire Christians to love and worship God, before and since the KJV, whether in English or other languages). You're welcome to believe that God is so bound up in the time that contains man that He literally began creation 6000 odd years ago, and that He did it in 6*24 hours. He could have done it - He's God! - but you seem to have a particularly eisegetical approach. That's dangerous if you are truly committed to the Truth.
 
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Derek1234

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At the beginning of Day One, it was water.

I'll make this up, just for clarification:

It is 23 October 4004 BC

0600 = God creates a mass of seawater in the hollow of His hand (terra aqua)
0700 = Holy Spirit surveys the earth and makes topographical recommendations
0800 = God creates the four basic forces of the universe, and gravity shapes terra aqua into a sphere
0900 = God sets terra aqua spinning, and centrifugal force shapes it into an oblate spheroid
1000 = God calls terra firma out from terra aqua
1100 = God sculpts terra firma (Eden) into what it was, using Holy Spirit's recommendations

Etc and so on.

Of course, I made this hourly timeline up, but it should help you understand better what I'm saying.
So to help us understand, you: (a) acknowledge you are making up a timeline; (b) use an oblique phrase like terra aqua; (c) acknowledge that God uses natural forces (like gravity and centrifugal force); and (d) create a consultative Godhead where the Holy Spirit makes "recommendations".

I'd say your theology is kinda off.
 
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d taylor

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At the beginning of Day One, it was water.

I'll make this up, just for clarification:

It is 23 October 4004 BC

0600 = God creates a mass of seawater in the hollow of His hand (terra aqua)
0700 = Holy Spirit surveys the earth and makes topographical recommendations
0800 = God creates the four basic forces of the universe, and gravity shapes terra aqua into a sphere
0900 = God sets terra aqua spinning, and centrifugal force shapes it into an oblate spheroid
1000 = God calls terra firma out from terra aqua
1100 = God sculpts terra firma (Eden) into what it was, using Holy Spirit's recommendations

Etc and so on.

Of course, I made this hourly timeline up, but it should help you understand better what I'm saying.

In the Bible, The Bible distinguishes between earth and water, they are not spoken of as being interchangeably or the same or saying the same thing. Water is water and earth is land, dirt, rocks etc..
 
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AV1611VET

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So to help us understand, you: (a) acknowledge you are making up a timeline; (b) use an oblique phrase like terra aqua; (c) acknowledge that God uses natural forces (like gravity and centrifugal force); and (d) create a consultative Godhead where the Holy Spirit makes "recommendations".

I'd say your theology is kinda off.
I think there's a better word I could have used besides "recommendations," but yes, you've got it pegged correctly.

And I must congratulate you, as you are one of the very few I see who [seems to] understand.

Light bulbs are scarce around here.
 
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AV1611VET

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In the Bible, The Bible distinguishes between earth and water, they are not spoken of as being interchangeably or the same or saying the same thing. Water is water and earth is land, dirt, rocks etc..
That is correct.

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

From terra aqua:

120003-Blue-Jay-Marble-2000-LRG-ASPECT.jpg


To terra aqua/terra firma:

pangea_politik.jpg
 
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Derek1234

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I think there's a better word I could have used besides "recommendations," but yes, you've got it pegged correctly.

And I must congratulate you, as you are one of the very few I see who [seems to] understand.

Light bulbs are scarce around here.
Well, I understand what you are saying in literal terms. I wouldn't say it was an epiphany.
 
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The Barbarian

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Ok i see so you were speaking in general

So were you:

No circumference measuring in the Bible

It's pretty likely that Jewish scholars were quite aware of the Earth being a sphere, and it's approximate size. Long before Eratosthenes, sailors had figured out that the world was round.
 
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AV1611VET

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Long before Eratosthenes, sailors had figured out that the world was round.
Couldn't they figure it was round by simply traveling north to south on land?
 
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d taylor

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So were you:

No i was not, we were at the time i made my comment were speaking about the earth.
As you said something about a pagan measuring the true circumference of the Earth
below is your comment.

Odd then, that Eratosthenes found the true circumference of the Earth. That's the truth, and your religious assumptions led you to the wrong conclusion.

There's a lesson there, if you're willing to face the truth.
 
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d taylor

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So were you:



It's pretty likely that Jewish scholars were quite aware of the Earth being a sphere, and it's approximate size. Long before Eratosthenes, sailors had figured out that the world was round.

Well wait and see, and do not be too disappointed when you find out the truth.
 
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The Barbarian

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Well wait and see, and do not be too disappointed when you find out the truth.

Somehow, when people get to heaven, I kinda doubt if St.Peter says "welcome! (and by the way, the world is flat)"
 
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The Barbarian

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Couldn't they figure it was round by simply traveling north to south on land?

Could have, but they noted 2 things.
1. The Earth casts a circular shadow on lunar eclipses.
2. When you approach a coast with mountains, the peaks show up first, and then lower elevations.

South to north, is precisely how Eratosthenes measured the circumerence. He noted that in Scyene in Egypt, one day a year the Sun briefly cast rays straight down a well. Scyene is directly south of Alexandria. He merely measured the angle of the noon Sun in Alexandria on that day, noted that the angle was X percent of 360, noted the distance from Alexandria to Scyene, and divided the distance by X percent to get the total circumference of the Earth. He came remarkably close, given the rough data he had available.

Edit: Eratosthenes assumed that the Sun was far enough away for the rays to be essentially parallel. It was a good assumption, as subsequent investigations showed. Aristarchus of Samos, had, by careful observation, noted that the Sun had to be huge and very far away. Aristarchus had only crude instruments, but he showed that it had to be much larger than the Peloponnese, which would be large enough and far enough away for those conditions to hold.
 
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The Barbarian

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My point is that the consensus of mainstream scientific institutions says that there definitely was not any large scale Exodus event as described.

Name me one university department (or any other "mainstream scientific institution) of any science that claims there was no exodus. With a checkable source documenting the claim.

What do you have?
 
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The Barbarian

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Evolutionists have been known to give binomials to animals they thought to have existed, only to find out they were horribly wrong (e.g., Nebraska Man).

That's not a scientific term. Which is not surprising, since it was invented by a British tabloid, not a scientific organization.
 
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FredVB

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The Barbarian said:
Many creationists are outraged that most Christians don't buy their new interpretation of scripture. It's understandable. Those of us who accept the ancient Christian understanding have no need to be defensive, but when one's new doctrines are no older than the 20th century, it's probably generates a little insecurity.

I don't worry about creationists as long as they leave others alone and don't try to use government to enforce their new doctrines. God isn't going to send them to hell for it, so I don't have to be concerned.

And yes, there are creationists who are secure in their beliefs and don't worry about what other Christians think about evolution, for the same reason I don't worry about what they think about it.

Good for you, and good for recognizing what any Christian individuals believe or think about evolution is not so important for focusing on when they are not arguing with other believers about it. I look with interest at what is being said in discussions about evolution. I might ask questions, as I may, but then there are others who pry, and make assumptions, and argue with me. It really is not worth that.
 
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Job 33:6

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The Barbarian said:
Many creationists are outraged that most Christians don't buy their new interpretation of scripture. It's understandable. Those of us who accept the ancient Christian understanding have no need to be defensive, but when one's new doctrines are no older than the 20th century, it's probably generates a little insecurity.

I don't worry about creationists as long as they leave others alone and don't try to use government to enforce their new doctrines. God isn't going to send them to hell for it

Barbarian, how can you know for sure that Young Earth Creationists aren't going to hell for contortion of Gods word?
 
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The Barbarian

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Barbarian, how can you know for sure that Young Earth Creationists aren't going to hell for contortion of Gods word?

Mostly, because God doesn't say that's how we will be judged. He's pretty explicit about it, in places like Matthew 25. What they think of evolution isn't really an issue.

Now, if they truly change scripture, rather than just interpret it wrongly, that's a different issue. There, they might be accountable. Or if creationism becomes so much the center of their worship that they insist Christian must believe it their way to be saved, that might be a problem for their salvation.

Otherwise, I don't think so.
 
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Job 33:6

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Mostly, because God doesn't say that's how we will be judged. He's pretty explicit about it, in places like Matthew 25. What they think of evolution isn't really an issue.

Now, if they truly change scripture, rather than just interpret it wrongly, that's a different issue. There, they might be accountable. Or if creationism becomes so much the center of their worship that they insist Christian must believe it their way to be saved, that might be a problem for their salvation.

Otherwise, I don't think so.

Interesting, thanks for the Biblical reference!
 
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