Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

[The Barbarian]

Prime Directive: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the Bible to be contradicted.

The problem is that you've assumed your assumptions about scripture are scripture.

 

[AV1611VET]

The problem is that you've assumed your assumptions about scripture are scripture.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

[Derek1234]

Here's my standard of judgement:

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own

Prime Directive: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the Bible to be contradicted.

OK. I note that you're not responding to the second point I made at all. I'll draw my own conclusions from your silence. And I note that (assuming you made a typo at #4) you will believe the Bible in the face of anything. That's your choice. It reflects either a powerful faith or anti-intellectualism. My faith is strong enough to be reinforced by engagement with my mind: Mark 12v30, whichever translation you want to use.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK. I note that you're not responding to the second point I made at all. I'll draw my own conclusions from your silence. And I note that (assuming you made a typo at #4) you will believe the Bible in the face of anything. That's your choice. It reflects either a powerful faith or anti-intellectualism. My faith is strong enough to be reinforced by engagement with my mind: Mark 12v30, whichever translation you want to use.

Why is #4 a typo?

Number Four basically says that, if science says something, and the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, then it's safe to go with what science says; so long as the Prime Directive isn't violated.

For example, science says: gravity = Gm₁m₂/r²

Since the Bible doesn't say for or against, then I go with what science says.

 

[AV1611VET]

On your second point, I see. You want the translation that says "the heaven".

QV please: Genesis One

"Heaven" is singular in Genesis 1:1, because God created two more heavens (or "firmaments) later.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

It is after the creation is finished, that God pluralizes it.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Notice here, where Paul warns about putting an -s on the end of a word:

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[d taylor]

The important thing about science is that it works without any religious or philosophical assumptions. This is why Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and people of all faiths or no faith at all, can do science.

And it works because God created a knowable and orderly universe in which we can learn about it from examining the evidence it leaves.

If your "science"requires faith, it's not science at all.

You might as well insist that plumbers include the supernatural in their work.

Oh it can (that is work without guidance from the Bible), but if a person is seeking to have truth part of their science, then following God's lead is the only way. Paganism will not lead to truth.

This is concerning only science and God's creation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh it can (that is work without guidance from the Bible), but if a person is seeking to have truth part of their science, then following God's lead is the only way. Paganism will not lead to truth.

This is concerning only science and God's creation.

I've said this here more than once, and it bears repeating.

Every scientist should have to memorize this passage:

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

I call that the "Scientist's Caveat".

 

[The Barbarian]

Oh it can (that is work without guidance from the Bible), but if a person is seeking to have truth part of their science, then following God's lead is the only way.

Sorry, that's wrong. It's like auto mechanics, or plumbing, or anything else exclusively involved with the physical universe. You can get the truth without any religous assumptions at all.

Paganism will not lead to truth.

Odd then, that Eratosthenes found the true circumference of the Earth. That's the truth, and your religious assumptions led you to the wrong conclusion.

There's a lesson there, if you're willing to face the truth.

 

[d taylor]

Odd then, that Eratosthenes found the true circumference of the Earth. That's the truth, and your religious assumptions led you to the wrong conclusion.

There's a lesson there, if you're willing to face the truth.

No lesson there except how to detect and become aware of, one of sciences lies.

No circumference measuring in the Bible, just width and lengths.
T
heir measure is longer than the earth
And broader than the sea.

Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.

 

[d taylor]

I've said this here more than once, and it bears repeating.

Every scientist should have to memorize this passage:

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

I call that the "Scientist's Caveat".

But then they would have to acknowledge, they are not the king of the hill and can only know so much. That God has place a limit as to how much He will allow a sinful man to know about His work of creation. So knowing that many choose a route that will glorify, "for the short time" man. They do that, buy not acknowledging God's creation, but creating their own creation, where man can be the god/gods and receive the glory and praise.

 

[AV1611VET]

But then they would have to acknowledge, they are not the king of the hill and can only know so much. That God has place a limit as to how much He will allow a sinful man to know about His work of creation. So knowing that many choose a route that will glorify, "for the short time" man. They do that, buy not acknowledging God's creation, but creating their own creation, where man can be the god/gods and receive the glory and praise.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

 

[The Barbarian]

Odd then, that Eratosthenes found the true circumference of the Earth. That's the truth, and your religious assumptions led you to the wrong conclusion.

There's a lesson there, if you're willing to face the truth.

No lesson there except how to detect and become aware of, one of sciences lies.

It's quite true. He got it very close to the exact distance, and did it by scientific methodology. Would you like to see how he measured it?

No circumference measuring in the Bible,

No, that's wrong:

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.

Eratosthenes did. And of course all of us now also comprehend it. God gave you a mind, and made the universe orderly and knowable for a purpose. He doesn't expect you to blind your eyes to the reality of His creation.

 

[Derek1234]

Why is #4 a typo?

Number Four basically says that, if science says something, and the Bible doesn't say one way or the other, then it's safe to go with what science says; so long as the Prime Directive isn't violated.

For example, science says: gravity = Gm₁m₂/r²

Since the Bible doesn't say for or against, then I go with what science says.

OK, I get what you're saying now. If science says something but the Bible doesn't, then you believe science. Look, I believe Romans 3v4. But the apostle was writing about God being true, not the fallible interpretations of man. I think we could all do with a dose of humility.

 

[Derek1234]

QV please: Genesis One

"Heaven" is singular in Genesis 1:1, because God created two more heavens (or "firmaments) later.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

It is after the creation is finished, that God pluralizes it.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Notice here, where Paul warns about putting an -s on the end of a word:

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

I think your reference to Galatians is baffling here. You're using it as a proof text that, unfortunately for you, doesn't prove anything except that God chose a single lineage for His people. That concerns his salvific purpose, not how He made creation. But either way, I am still confused why you're not engaging with the other point I made. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. That has three components: when? In the beginning. Who? God. What? The heaven and the earth. And this predates Day 1. The earth "was without form, and void." How do you account for God, in His wisdom, telling us that He created the earth before Day 1?

 

[d taylor]

Odd then, that Eratosthenes found the true circumference of the Earth. That's the truth, and your religious assumptions led you to the wrong conclusion.

There's a lesson there, if you're willing to face the truth.



It's quite true. He got it very close to the exact distance, and did it by scientific methodology. Would you like to see how he measured it?



No, that's wrong:

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.



Eratosthenes did. And of course all of us now also comprehend it. God gave you a mind, and made the universe orderly and knowable for a purpose. He doesn't expect you to blind your eyes to the reality of His creation.

circular shape - Google Search

Show a verse using this Hebrew word ( Strong's Hebrew: 1754. דּוּר (dur) -- a circle, ball ) when speaking about God's created earth.

 

[AV1611VET]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. That has three components: when? In the beginning. Who? God. What? The heaven and the earth. And this predates Day 1.

No, it doesn't predate Day One. It is included in Day One.

The earth "was without form, and void." How do you account for God, in His wisdom, telling us that He created the earth before Day 1?

In the beginning, God created a mass of seawater in the hollow of His hand.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

1. That is why the earth is "without form and void" -- it's a mass of water. (Unless you want to claim the earth was plano-convex at the time.)

2. He made it seawater, because seawater contains all the natural elements in the Periodic Table. Thus, when the time came, He simply ordered the atoms in the water to link up in the proper order, and behold: the landmass (called "Eden" or "Pangaea," if you prefer) was called forth.

This seawater, I like to call "terra aqua".

3. Notice He is "comprehending the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighing the mountains and hills"? This purports to the Holy Spirit going to and fro on this "terra aqua" and getting the proper measurements for the landmass ("terra firma") that will soon be created.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Notice the Spirit is "moving" upon the face of the waters; not "hovering" as Satan's translations say. Anyone who pilots a helicopter would know the difference between "moving" and "hovering."

And as I said, the Spirit is moving to and fro, getting information to use when the right time comes for terra firma to be created.

 

[d taylor]

No, it doesn't predate Day One. It is included in Day One.In the beginning, God created a mass of seawater in the hollow of His hand.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

1. That is why the earth is "without form and void" -- it's a mass of water. (Unless you want to claim the earth was plano-convex at the time.)

2. He made it seawater, because seawater contains all the natural elements in the Periodic Table. Thus, when the time came, He simply ordered the atoms in the water to link up in the proper order, and behold: the landmass (called "Eden" or "Pangaea," if you prefer) was called forth.

This seawater, I like to call "terra aqua".

3. Notice He is "comprehending the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighing the mountains and hills"? This purports to the Holy Spirit going to and fro on this "terra aqua" and getting the proper measurements for the landmass ("terra firma") that will soon be created.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Notice the Spirit is "moving" upon the face of the waters; not "hovering" as Satan's translations say. Anyone who pilots a helicopter would know the difference between "moving" and "hovering."

And as I said, the Spirit is moving to and fro, getting information to use when the right time comes for terra firma to be created.

So are you saying earth does not mean land but water.

 

[The Barbarian]

No circumference measuring in the Bible,

No, that's wrong:

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

Show a verse using this Hebrew word ( Strong's Hebrew: 1754. דּוּר (dur) -- a circle, ball ) when speaking about God's created earth.

I'm just pointing out that you're wrong about there being no circumference measuring in the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

So are you saying earth does not mean land but water.

At the beginning of Day One, it was water.

I'll make this up, just for clarification:

It is 23 October 4004 BC

0600 = God creates a mass of seawater in the hollow of His hand (terra aqua)
0700 = Holy Spirit surveys the earth and makes topographical recommendations
0800 = God creates the four basic forces of the universe, and gravity shapes terra aqua into a sphere
0900 = God sets terra aqua spinning, and centrifugal force shapes it into an oblate spheroid
1000 = God calls terra firma out from terra aqua
1100 = God sculpts terra firma (Eden) into what it was, using Holy Spirit's recommendations

Etc and so on.

Of course, I made this hourly timeline up, but it should help you understand better what I'm saying.

 

[d taylor]

No, that's wrong:

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.



I'm just pointing out that you're wrong about there being no circumference measuring in the Bible.

No, that's wrong:

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.



I'm just pointing out that you're wrong about there being no circumference measuring in the Bible.

Ok i see so you were speaking in general