Why do people even want to put evolution in the equation?

public hermit

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?

I find the evidence for evolution to be convincing. I find the insistent comparison between evolution and the first couple Genesis chapters to be a category mistake.

One is a religious document making claims about God, the world, and humanity (and the relation between the three). The main thrust of these claims is outside the purview of scientific investigation, i.e. metaphysics. The other is a theory based on data, i.e. physical phenomena. It's a category mistake and a sign of intellectual laziness and arrogance to not acknowledge and allow for the differences between the two.
 
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Taodeching

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?

What new breed of Christians? Many Christian have believed in some form of evolution for a long time and it only makes God a liar if one takes a middle eastern creation story, of which there are many and some that have identical information are older then what is in Scripture, as absolutely literal.
 
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Thomas White

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?

How does believing in evolution call God a liar?
 
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Gottservant

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Evolution is a theory of "disinterest" - that is, people choose the theory, because they are disinterested in God and His causing.

What we have to remember, as I stated in the thread "What will Evolutionist Gentiles, trust, in Jesus?" is that sooner or later, Evolutionists are going to trust something.

They may provoke themselves or challenge God, but if they trust something, they will be implicitly trusting something that God created - if we are just patient and trust in God, then we will have an opportunity to build on the trust the have in what God created.

This has vexed me for a long time and I have been ridiculed quite a lot, for trying to give Evolution a layman's meaning - and that's where my faith is at, at the moment: I want them to trust more, but I can't force it.

The alternative, is that we just focus on God, giving Him continual praise, for what He has Created - if we do that to the end of our lives, we won't have been distracted, by the continual contest as to whom has "favour" and who does not.
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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It's a category mistake and a sign of intellectual laziness and arrogance to not acknowledge and allow for the differences between the two.

Yikes!
 
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Gottservant

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It's a category mistake and a sign of intellectual laziness and arrogance to not acknowledge and allow for the differences between the two.

I wrote a thread about this very fact: creation and evolution.

The point is that Creation and Evolution are ethosi which express themselves differently (especially as pertains to "culture").

What is wrong, is to say "one substitutes the other"?
 
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Gottservant

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The problem is that we are waiting to be transposed, into the Kingdom of the Holy Spirit - where there is no coming and going, just being.

In light of this, it looks to us, like we need to justify ourselves, not least against the accusations that we are of the old world and do not belong in this time.

This is the Devil's work: something we need to get angry about and work against spiritually.

If God can justify us through the Holy Spirit, our concerns about our reputation - and all that goes with it - will fade into the background.
 
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disciple Clint

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?
Truthfully it takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in God. I can see some evidence for micro but macro no evidence exists that I am aware of anyway.
 
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Gottservant

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Truthfully it takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in God. I can see some evidence for micro but macro no evidence exists that I am aware of anyway.

Well, you have the caterpillar evolving into the butterfly, but the butterfly creates the caterpillar again.

Or you have the chameleon, but the chameleon needs a change of environment, to trigger a change of appearance.

Fundamentally, I have to agree with you though: if you are going to prove macro Evolution, you need something more concrete than "appearances" - the fact is, if they ever could find macro evolution, their first intention would be to try and do it in the laboratory (I'm not saying they shouldn't do something in the lab, I just think they are a bit hell bent on proving you don't need God to be a god yourself).
 
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Gottservant

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Maybe I should have put that in a more gentle way. Something like, "It's just not helpful."

I wonder why the more "helpful" way, doesn't come to us, more naturally? Something in our character needs to change, if our default position is to make our position "sound nice" after the fact?

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just thinking of myself and saying "I notice a difference between me and Jesus that I don't like"?

I guess that's why God made it possible to confess - He never committed us to anything that we ultimately couldn't "take back"...
 
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public hermit

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I wonder why the more "helpful" way, doesn't come to us, more naturally? Something in our character needs to change, if our default position is to make our position "sound nice" after the fact?

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just thinking of myself and saying "I notice a difference between me and Jesus that I don't like"?

I guess that's why God made it possible to confess - He never committed us to anything that we ultimately couldn't "take back"...

I certainly meant my initial response, and I don't so much regret it as think it could bar acceptance by instigating a reaction instead of encouraging consideration, if that makes sense. The "yikes" alerted me to the possibility. Then I thought, "Maybe there was a better way to put that."

As far as Jesus goes, he was not always gentle, lol. Clearly, I fall short of his standard. But, he had no qualms about calling a group of people a "brood of vipers."
 
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NomNomPizza

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?
well it might appeal to some just because it seems impossible so they use it in argument as guided process by God
 
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Job 33:6

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?

For me, i find the succession of the fossils compelling evidence for evolution. In my opinion, there is no logical explanation for it but common descent.

I think it is young earthers that are the ones calling God a liar. :)
 
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The Barbarian

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians?

Probably because it's directly observed to happen. Reality is a pretty solid argument.

It's growing, and it might be blasphemy.

Accepting God's creation doesn't seem blasphemous to me. On the other hand, denying it, as creationists do, might be. Personally, I don't think so, but you could make the argument that creationists are calling God a liar. I don't think they intend to do that, though.
 
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The Barbarian

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Truthfully it takes more faith to believe in evolution

It just takes evidence. And since it's been directly observed, that's pretty solid.

I can see some evidence for micro but macro no evidence exists that I am aware of anyway.

Even many creationist organizations admit that new species, genera,and sometimes higher levels of taxa evolve from other organisms. So they think there's evidence for it.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?

No, we're not calling God a liar. Rather, we understand the meaning of the book of Genesis within different contextual terms AND we're willing to accept that our fellow human beings, whether they are Christian or not, see something about the Structures of Nature around us that is true and real.

Understanding that our world evolved through long periods of deep time is not blasphemy, and I take umbrage with any fellow Christian who insists that it is.
 
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loveofourlord

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Why does this impossible process, with impossible odds, seem so rational to this new breed of Christians? It's growing, and it might be blasphemy. Aren't they calling God a liar?

show the odds are impossible I'm sure you've personally done the math on it, plus before you bring up abiogenesis. god could have created or started the first life and evolution would work from there. If you actually understand what evolution claims and how it works there is nothing impossible about it. If you don't all your doing is accepting lies and strawman from those that either don't understand it, or want to missrepersent it.

On abiogenesis lets see the most common thing about it being impossible I've seen is that science considered a event with a what probability of like 10 to the -22, but numbers like that are only referring to the chance of a single event happening, and not to a event with far more tries and options. Like there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars many with planets around the universe, add in that abiogenesis if it happened wouldn't be random chance, it would be chemistry which would happen every time the conditions are right, and would happen thousands of times or millions of times a second in a small area, calculate that over the surface of a planet, on all those planets and suddenly originally impossible things become inevitable.

Then given that there is no need for the first life to be as complicated even our simplest life is now, or that it even has to begin there, just has to have a method to survive before it's life and the creationists arguments fall apart.

Same with evolution, we know that mutations can occur and do frequently and despite creationists lies, are not all detrimental, they are more frequently neutral, and the harmful ones get weeded out and the beneficial ones are given a chance fo flourish.
 
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