After Supreme Court Victory, Colorado Baker Back in Court for Declining Gender Transition Cake

[SamanthaAnastasia]

the Supreme Court didn't rule that the state of Colorado broke the law in investigating the incident. It made no ruling on the constitutionality of his choice to discriminate

It’s still silly

 

[Tom 1]

Phillips has said in the past that he not only has declined same-sex union cakes, but he also declines other types of cakes that go against his beliefs, including cakes for Halloween, bachelor parties, divorce, cakes with alcohol in the ingredients, and cakes with atheist messages.

Continued below.
After Supreme Court Victory, Colorado Baker Back in Court for Declining Gender Transition Cake

Perhaps he should refuse to serve the kind of people who infuriated Jesus? Self-righteous religious hypocrites shouldn’t be too hard to identify.

 

[SilverBear]

Whose talking about minorities?

the OP for starters.

Or are you going to bring them into the conversation in literally every thread you enter? Does Jack Phillips refuse to make cakes for black people?

Why you object to him to refusing to make wedding cakes for black people because of his firmly held religious beliefs?

Also is it false to suggest twitter doesn't ban people of certain political persuasions for unclear reasons and often for no reason whatsoever?

it's false to suggest that they do.

Regardless, let's assume twitter and facebook are as pure as the driven snow. I presume you are fine with Twitter banning whoever it wants and that there is no standard they should be forced to uphold.

since they don't do that your question is disingenuous.

Why then do you have a problem with a small town baker refusing to make a specific cake? You realize if I went and asked Jack Phillips for a pro-lgbt cake he would refuse right.

it's the same problem i have with anyone engaging in discrimination.

Is your 'liberalism' so fragile that it needs bakers to be forced to make things against their conscience?

Is your conservatism to fragile it can't deal with people being treated equally?

 

[SilverBear]

Nothing there matches your previous assertion.

it does if you are honest

 

[SilverBear]

This baker wasn't either. He was rejecting an explicit message as well.

what was the written message?

 

[Direct Driver]

try reading the definition of discrimination again

I've been in IT for over 30 years. Most of what computer programs do is discriminate. It's binary. Yes vs no. I think you are glomming on to a discrimination motive (which I mentioned in my post) rather than discrimination itself.

i.e. I am well aware of what the word means and have been for decades. I've also been discussing this with had leftists for decades.

There's an old phrase: Liberals love the masses but hate people. Conservatives hate the masses but love people. My grandaughter is sleeping in the other room right now with her two best friends in this area. They are really great kids and are each sisters. They are also quite black. The woman where I worked that died of Rona was a strong Christian and a true friend. She was also black. And no, I'm not pulling the "but I have a black friend" card. I have almost as many black friends as white friends, a couple of Indian (dot in forehead) friends and quite a few Asian friends. I even have a Muslim friend and an Indian (feather in cap) cousin.

However, I would never drive through a "black neighborhood" in some parts of the US. I'm not racist against black people, but I'm most definitely culturist against American black culture - my son's wife is lilly white and she comes from it. Without going into detail, I'll just say this: It's poison for those steeped in it. Same with some parts of American Indian reservations. There are a few Samoan bars I'd stay out of in Hawaii as well.

Does that mean I discriminate? You bet. But for darned good reasons - and it most definitely is justified. But I take individuals on their own merit, regardless of race. I AM sexist, though. I consider men's and women's brains to be wired differently and I most definitely treat the two differently. My wife likes that.

 

[Direct Driver]

you can refuse to serve minorities at your place of business. it may cost you some time behind bars but you are free to do so

I personally would never do that. But I think a business should have the right to refuse service to anyone and for any reason. And if he does it for bad reasons I think it would affect his business and open up an opportunity for competitors. Let the market decide. Maybe that is why only where it was the law (Jim Crow) did we have separate black and white facilities. When blacks moved to Detroit in the late 50's and early 60's, where businesses were free to discriminate or not, did they have to put up with "whites only"?

 

[Direct Driver]

what was the written message?

I believe it was for an event he abhored, just like a Jewish bakery refusing to bake the cake for a Nazi event.

Why do so many people hate individual freedom? I am seriously perplexed by this, especially on a Christian site. We are free. Free to make choices. Free to choose who to surround ourselves with. Free to choose who we serve. Why is that considered a bad thing. I'm missing something here.

 

[Direct Driver]

your right to be a bigot ends when it interferes with the right of other people

I agree. How is the baker interfering with someone else's rights? And more importantly, are HIS rights being interfered with? If he "has to" bake the cake, he is quite literally reduced to a slave.

 

[Direct Driver]

I think we are finally moving away from the idea of death camps for gays and lesbians

I don't believe that was ever a thing outside of Socialist, Communist or Muslim countries.

 

[Direct Driver]

not according to either of the medical examinors who conducted the autopsies...but what do they know?

I've entered a parallel dimension. He died of a drug overdose. You need to broaden your news sources. Stop trusting these guys: Medical Examiner's Autopsy Reveals George Floyd Had Positive Test For Coronavirus

Check out this: New court docs say George Floyd had "fatal level" of fentanyl in his system | kare11.com

And this gets to why the officers will walk: Officer charged in George Floyd's death argues drug overdose killed him, not knee on neck

Problem is, they were doing exactly what police procedure required. Unfortunately, it can be dangerous if someone is already dying of a drug overdose. But by all means, let us see what the Jury says. FWIW, because I got my news from non-MSM sources, the Zimmerman trial went EXACTLY like I expected. Only those baited by the MSM were surprised.

 

[SilverBear]

I've been in IT for over 30 years. Most of what computer programs do is discriminate. It's binary. Yes vs no. I think you are glomming on to a discrimination motive (which I mentioned in my post) rather than discrimination itself.

i.e. I am well aware of what the word means and have been for decades. I've also been discussing this with had leftists for decades.

There's an old phrase: Liberals love the masses but hate people. Conservatives hate the masses but love people. My grandaughter is sleeping in the other room right now with her two best friends in this area. They are really great kids and are each sisters. They are also quite black. The woman where I worked that died of Rona was a strong Christian and a true friend. She was also black. And no, I'm not pulling the "but I have a black friend" card. I have almost as many black friends as white friends, a couple of Indian (dot in forehead) friends and quite a few Asian friends. I even have a Muslim friend and an Indian (feather in cap) cousin.

However, I would never drive through a "black neighborhood" in some parts of the US. I'm not racist against black people, but I'm most definitely culturist against American black culture - my son's wife is lilly white and she comes from it. Without going into detail, I'll just say this: It's poison for those steeped in it. Same with some parts of American Indian reservations. There are a few Samoan bars I'd stay out of in Hawaii as well.

Does that mean I discriminate? You bet. But for darned good reasons - and it most definitely is justified. But I take individuals on their own merit, regardless of race. I AM sexist, though. I consider men's and women's brains to be wired differently and I most definitely treat the two differently. My wife likes that.

Discrimination is the prejudicial or disadvantageous treatment of an individual based on his or her membership - or perceived membership - in of a minority. Discrimination restricts members of a minority group from opportunities or privileges that are available to the majority group, leading to the exclusion of the individual based on minority membership and not on an individual’s behavior or character.

 

[SilverBear]

I personally would never do that.

that is nice

But I think a business should have the right to refuse service to anyone and for any reason.

If that reason is because that person is a member of a minority then businesses don't have that right

And if he does it for bad reasons I think it would affect his business and open up an opportunity for competitors. Let the market decide. Maybe that is why only where it was the law (Jim Crow) did we have separate black and white facilities. When blacks moved to Detroit in the late 50's and early 60's, where businesses were free to discriminate or not, did they have to put up with "whites only"?

Detroit's Segregation Past

 

[Aldebaran]

Discrimination is the prejudicial or disadvantageous treatment of an individual based on his or her membership - or perceived membership - in of a minority.

As Direct Driver explained, it's more than that.

Discrimination restricts members of a minority group from opportunities or privileges that are available to the majority group, leading to the exclusion of the individual based on minority membership and not on an individual’s behavior or character.

Not necessarily. Most of the time, that's not the case at all.

 

[SilverBear]

I believe it was for an event he abhored, just like a Jewish bakery refusing to bake the cake for a Nazi event.

Would the Nazi cake to be decorated with phrases like "Kill all the Jews"? then it is the message that is objectionable. Just as the courts found that a baker refusing to decorating a cake with "Kill all the gays" isn't discriminating against the buyer.

Why do so many people hate individual freedom? I am seriously perplexed by this, especially on a Christian site. We are free. Free to make choices. Free to choose who to surround ourselves with. Free to choose who we serve. Why is that considered a bad thing. I'm missing something here.

Should black people have to contact business ahead of time to see if they would be welcomed or even safe if they were to go to that storefront?

 

[Direct Driver]

Discrimination is the prejudicial or disadvantageous treatment of an individual based on his or her membership - or perceived membership - in of a minority. Discrimination restricts members of a minority group from opportunities or privileges that are available to the majority group, leading to the exclusion of the individual based on minority membership and not on an individual’s behavior or character.

That is certainly one way of looking at it. And you had better believe I discriminate based on that. I was a salesman (retail hi-fi) in the mid-70's to early 80's before becoming a computer programmer. I won every single sales contest. I was very successful. And one of the secrets of my success was stereotyping - discriminating - at least at first. And I adjusted accordingly as information presented itself.

You are fixated on one type of discrimination that, truth be told, is very rare in this country now except in ways that it is legal. e.g. choosing to marry a woman that is the same race as you. Not only did I not see racial discrimination against minorities in the 18 companies I worked at during my IT career, but I actually saw plenty of preferences given to blacks because there were so few that entered the field.

I consider it not a straw man, but certainly a red herring.

And the legal kind (name calling, etc.) is something you can't do a thing about because those discriminating are literally exercising their constitutional rights. I've suffered plenty of it - from black people - but was taught as a child to ignore such nonsense. It's served me very well. I was a lot like Nick Sandmann when I was young, and even more unflappable today.

Words have meaning, and idiotic words only tell the story of the person using them.

 

[Direct Driver]

Would the Nazi cake to be decorated with phrases like "Kill all the Jews"? then it is the message that is objectionable. Just as the courts found that a baker refusing to decorating a cake with "Kill all the gays" isn't discriminating against the buyer.

Should black people have to contact business ahead of time to see if they would be welcomed or even safe if they were to go to that storefront?

Simply having to bake a cake celebrating something you consider to be abhorrent to your God is not something a person should be forced to do. It's really pretty simple.

Frankly, anyone who disagrees with that statement has little in common with my world view. They are certainly not a part of my subculture. They are also not on the moral high ground. If you don't like the way someone does their business, do not use their business. That's what I do all the time because, at the end of the day, I respect their right to choose how to do their business.

It's a shame more on the left don't feel that way.

 

[SilverBear]

I agree. How is the baker interfering with someone else's rights?

the equal protection clause of the constitution

And more importantly, are HIS rights being interfered with? If he "has to" bake the cake, he is quite literally reduced to a slave.

So engage in an activity he does every day as part of the job he chose to peruse is now slavery?

What bull.

It isn't about baking a cake it's about his choice to engage in discrimination. His right to be a bigot ends when it infringes on the rights of others...something you agree with.

 

[Direct Driver]

If that reason is because that person is a member of a minority then businesses don't have that right

The constitution gives them that right, IMO. I'm in agreement with some supreme court justices, but not all. Unfortunately, too many adhere to "the end justifies the means". The sad part is that the expected end is not what we experience. e.g. bastardy among black families was below 20% in the 50's and is now over 70%.

What caused that? And the greatest detriment to a person becoming successful is not the color of their skin, but the presence of a mother AND father in the household, which was much more common in the black family back then. Now "black family" is almost a misnomer, Huxtables notwithstanding.

That is a problem. And it's not about race. It's about the government trying to fix a problem and only making it worse. Walter Williams had excellent words for it.

 

[SilverBear]

I don't believe that was ever a thing outside of Socialist, Communist or Muslim countries.

in the 80's the Christian organization the Family research institute proposed massive interment camps for homosexuals where gays and lesbians would be systematically killed. Part of the proposal was the selling of tickets for the public to observe the torture, mutilation and killings of gays. there was an extensive section on how extra money could be raised by letting the general public do the killing themselves, for a modest fee. Ref: Special Report:AIDS by Paul Cameron published in 1986