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What Sabbath did Moses keep?

  • from morning to morning

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • from evening to evening

    Votes: 11 84.6%

  • Total voters
    13

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guevaraj

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no mention of the man made IDL.
Brother, there is no natural reason for the IDL site. It can fall literally anywhere on Earth! Set is the IDL by a common shared count of days by everyone with the week. Israel wanted to change it because where it is doesn't make sense to them. They wanted to change it to fall on Israel, but because God scattered the Jews all over the world and they continued their tradition of keeping the Sabbath, no one can change the current site of the IDL without rebellion from some Jewish community around the world who has kept the Sabbath from the beginning. This understanding began with the realization that God capped the end of the first day with a "morning" and not an "evening".

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, there is no natural reason for the IDL site. It can fall literally anywhere on Earth! Set is the IDL by a common shared count of days by everyone with the week. Israel wanted to change it because where it is doesn't make sense to them. They wanted to change it to fall on Israel, but because God scattered the Jews all over the world and they continued their tradition of keeping the Sabbath, no one can change the current site of the IDL without rebellion from some Jewish community around the world who has kept the Sabbath from the beginning. This understanding began with the realization that God capped the end of the first day with a "morning" and not an "evening".

So you will concede that sunrise, at any given point on the earth, has nothing to do with some arbitrary line, created in the imagination of man; let alone that arbitrary line having any relevance to the location of Eden?
 
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guevaraj

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Brother, thanks for the website. Based on the information on this new website about sunrise time, I have found a new island closer. Rekareka with a sunrise just one minute before sunset in Israel.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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guevaraj

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So you will concede that sunrise, at any given point on the earth, has nothing to do with some arbitrary line, created in the imagination of man; let alone that arbitrary line having any relevance to the location of Eden?
Brother, what I'm saying is that God set the international Date Line site when He taught Adam to count the days with the week in Eden. God could have been anywhere on the earth when He did this, but because He was in Eden, set was the International Date Line site in Eden and preserved by our tradition of counting the days with the week from the beginning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, thanks for the website. Based on the information on this new website about sunrise time, I have found a new island closer. Rekareka with a sunrise just one minute before sunset in Israel.

How about Egypt? Are you suggesting that all of Israel broke the first Pesach? Are you suggesting that Israel, along with Moses, started breaking the Sabbath at Mount Sinai?

If not, how did they know what time the sun was coming up in Israel?
 
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HARK!

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Brother, what I'm saying is that God set the international Date Line site

No he didn't.

Judaism
Further information: International date line in Judaism
The concept of an international date line in Jewish law is first mentioned by 12th-century decisors.[32][33] But it was not until the introduction of improved transportation and communications systems in the 20th century that the question of an international date line truly became a question of practical Jewish law.[34]

International Date Line - Wikipedia
 
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guevaraj

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How about Egypt? Are you suggesting that all of Israel broke the first Pesach?
Brother, I'm suggesting the Hebrews did not need an extended day to obey the rule of eating the Passover the same day it's offered because they knew what a day was before they were taught to remember the Sabbath in Israel that later confused them about what a day was.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

They knew what a day was from the beginning because they were not yet taught to remember the Sabbath in Israel that later confused them about what a day was. They now think they need two days to do what God said to do in one. They eat the Passover on the 15th of Nissan while offering the meat on the prior supposed day of the 14th of Nissan. The only way to eat the meat on the day it is offered is if the day is from morning to morning and not from evening to evening as they remember the Sabbath.
Are you suggesting that Israel, along with Moses, started breaking the Sabbath at Mount Sinai? If not, how did they know what time the sun was coming up in Israel?
The Sabbath is an example of progressive revelation, where God is teaching us slowly the truth of the Sabbath until we fully understand it, in order to prepare those who are alive in the soon return of Jesus. This is clear from my church history: while having a prophetess in our church God showed us patience. Our church kept the Sabbath from 6 to 6 pm for 8 years prior to correcting the meaning of “evening” to sunset by reading the word of God. Later God confirmed through our prophetess what we found in His word and added that we would understand more later. Moses kept the Sabbath known from the beginning; a Sabbath revealed in creation week from morning to morning in which the word of God remained silent until the story of manna because God’s plan was to teach us to keep the Sabbath as He told Israel: in the Eden-time-zone as an example for us to understand later. The Sabbath shows God’s unbending grip on His word despite the misunderstanding by the humans God used to convey His truths.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, I'm suggesting the Hebrews did not need an extended day to obey the rule of eating the Passover the same day it's offered because they knew what a day was before they were taught to remember the Sabbath in Israel that later confused them about what a day was.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)
They knew what a day was from the beginning because they were not yet taught to remember the Sabbath in Israel that later confused them about what a day was.

The Sabbath was from the Beginning. The Torah was from the beginning; but none of what you posted answers my question.

They now think they need two days to do what God said to do in one. They eat the Passover on the 15th of Nissan while offering the meat on the prior supposed day of the 14th of Nissan. The only way to eat the meat on the day it is offered is if the day is from morning to morning and not from evening to evening as they remember the Sabbath.

I've studied the Moedim at length. I honor them according to scripture, not tradition. You would do well to study his Moedim before accusing others of not properly honoring them.

If you have any questions about what the Torah states about the Moedim; I'd be happy to help you.

The Pesach is to be slaughtered on the 14th, during the daylight hours.

(CLV) Lv 23:5
In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month between the evening hours is the passover to Yahweh.

It is to be eaten with unleavened bread that evening, on the 15th. It is not to be eaten during the day. It is to be eaten at night. None of it is to be left for the morning. This begins Hag Matzot. Hag matzot last for seven days.

(CLV) Ex 12:8
Then they will eat the flesh on this night, roasted with fire, and with unleavened bread; over bitter herbs shall they eat it.

(CLV) Lv 23:6
And on the fifteenth day of this month is the festival of unleavened bread to Yahweh. Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread.

(CLV) Ex 12:15
Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread. Yea, on the first day you shall eradicate yeast from your houses; for anyone eating what is leavened, from the first day unto the seventh day, that soul will be cut off from Israel.

Seven days!

YHWH doesn't say that your doesn't say that your house must be free of leaven on the 14th. He says that we begin eating Matzah on the 1st day of unleavened bread, the 15th until the 21st.

(CLV) Ex 12:18
In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, (The 15th) you shall eat unleavened bread until day twenty one of the month, in the evening. (day 22)

Count them: 15,16,17,18,19,20,21 Seven.


 
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HARK!

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The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)

This has nothing to do with Pesach nor Hag Matzot.

(CLV) Lv 7:11
This is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings which one may bring near to Yahweh.

(CLV) Lv 7:12
If he should bring it near for an acclamation then along with the acclamation sacrifice he will bring near unleavened perforated cakes mingled with oil and unleavened wafers anointed with oil and well-mixed perforated cakes of flour mingled with oil.

(CLV) Lv 7:13
With perforated cakes of leavened bread shall he bring near his approach present, along with the acclamation sacrifice of his peace offerings.

(CLV) Lv 7:14
And from it he will bring near one of each kind of approach present as a heave offering to Yahweh for the priest who is sprinkling the blood of the peace offerings; his shall it become.

(CLV) Lv 7:15
As for the flesh of the acclamation sacrifice of his peace offerings, ion the day of his approach present shall it be eaten. None of it shall he leave until morning.
 
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guevaraj

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This has nothing to do with Pesach nor Hag Matzot.
Brother, they end the day the same, on a "morning". I don't have to do any heavy lifting here because God has done it for me. You fell into God's plan to acknowledge that you see it in one passage before God's word convinces you with another passage.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

The end of a day above is the same as the end of a day below.

Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. (Exodus 12:10 NIV)​

The next passage is from a Rabbi trying to make since of it.

A Long Day

Also note that, in a certain sense, the celebration of the 15th is considered to be an extension of the 14th. How so? With regard to sacrifices, the verse states, “And the flesh of his thanksgiving peace offering shall be eaten on the day it is offered up; he shall not leave any of it over until morning.” In other words, if you were given one day to eat an offering, the day consisted of the daytime followed by its night (unlike all other purposes, for which Jewish calendar days consist of the night followed by the day). Thus, as far as sacrifices are concerned, the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought.

Therefore, when it comes to the celebration of the Passover sacrifice, while it was eaten on the 15th, it was considered to be the same day as the 14th. (Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, they end the day the same, on a "morning". I don't have to do any heavy lifting here because God has done it for me. You fell into God's plan to acknowledge that you see it in one passage before God's word convinces you with another passage.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

The end of a day above is the same as the end of a day below.

Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. (Exodus 12:10 NIV)​

The next passage is from a Rabbi trying to make since of it.

A Long Day

Also note that, in a certain sense, the celebration of the 15th is considered to be an extension of the 14th. How so? With regard to sacrifices, the verse states, “And the flesh of his thanksgiving peace offering shall be eaten on the day it is offered up; he shall not leave any of it over until morning.” In other words, if you were given one day to eat an offering, the day consisted of the daytime followed by its night (unlike all other purposes, for which Jewish calendar days consist of the night followed by the day). Thus, as far as sacrifices are concerned, the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought.

Therefore, when it comes to the celebration of the Passover sacrifice, while it was eaten on the 15th, it was considered to be the same day as the 14th. (Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Again, the verse you are presenting has nothing to do with Pesach.

Did you count the days? There are seven days for Hag Matzot.

I'll take the word of YHWH, and math, over your opinion.

Here is another example:

(CLV) Lv 23:27
Then ion the tenth of this seventh month, it is the day of propitiatory shelters. It shall be a holy meeting for you, and you will humble your souls and bring near a fire offering to Yahweh.

(CLV) Lv 23:28
You shall do not work at all ion this very day, for it is the day of propitiatory shelters so as to make a propitiatory shelter- over you before Yahweh your Elohim.

(CLV) Lv 23:29
For every soul who is not humbled on this very day will be cut off from his kinsmen.

(CLV) Lv 23:30
And every soul who does any work on this very day, I will destroy that soul from among his people.

(CLV) Lv 23:31
You shall do not work at all. It is an eonian statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

(CLV) Lv 23:32
It is a sabbath of cessation for you, and you will humble your souls. On the ninth day of the month in the evening, from evening until evening shall you cease for your sabbath.

You see, the Shabbat begins on the ninth day at evening. At evening is when the ninth day ends, and the tenth day begins.

BTW, when you have dinner guests; do you offer them a meal raw while the blood is pouring out of it; or do you present the offering, after it is prepared, at the table?
 
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guevaraj

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the Shabbat begins on the ninth day at evening. At evening is when the ninth day ends, and the tenth day begins.
Brother, it depends whether you are talking about a local day in Israel or a day of Eden remembered in Israel. If you are talking about when a day begins in Eden, yes, the corresponding time in Israel is "evening", but in Eden it's "morning". Remembered is the Sabbath in Israel on the Eden-Seventh-day that in Israel falls from the middle of the six-day to the middle of the seventh-day. Days in Israel are from "morning" to "morning" and remembered is the Sabbath 10 hours earlier than the local seventh day. The reason is that set were the days by God in the creation week from "morning" to "morning".

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, it depends whether you are talking about a local day in Israel or a day of Eden remembered in Israel.

No it doesn't. YHWH put the sun in the sky for a sign.

(CLV) Dt 16:6
but rather only in the place that Yahweh your Elohim shall choose to tabernacle His Name. There shall you sacrifice the passover in the evening as the sun sets, the appointed time of your going forth from Egypt.

We already went over the time difference between Israel and Egypt. Maybe you missed that. I didn't get a response to that valuable information.
 
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guevaraj

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No it doesn't.
Brother, other passages in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers say "between the evenings" and not just a simple "evening" as you found it in Deuteronomy. What time of day did Jesus die as our Passover sacrifice?

Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch--as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. (1 Corinthians 5:7 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, other passages in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers say "between the evenings" and not just a simple "evening" as you found it in Deuteronomy. What time of day did Jesus die as our Passover sacrifice?

Before sunset is between the evenings. Evening comes after sun has set. The Bible says what it says.
 
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guevaraj

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Before sunset is between the evenings. Evening comes after sun has set. The Bible says what it says.
Brother, I read the Deuteronomy passage as a brief chronological summery that skips the details because it speaks of "the appointed time of your going forth from Egypt" as also taking place in the evening. That took place well after the "evening" just like the sacrifice takes place well before the evening. During the night did death not come into the house of those with blood in their door posts and after the death of the son of the Pharaoh did he then let the Israelite go. The context is showing an in precise accounting, a chronological summary. So we go back to the rule that only a "morning" to "morning" weekday can fulfill. Jesus died during the light as our Passover sacrifice eaten during the night.

The meat of their fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; they must leave none of it till morning. (Leviticus 7:15 NIV)​

Note that both the above and below passages end the same, they end the day in a "morning".

Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. (Exodus 12:10 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, I read the Deuteronomy passage as a brief chronological summery that skips the details because it speaks of "the appointed time of your going forth from Egypt" as also taking place in the evening.

No it doesn't. It doesn't mention going forth from Egypt in the evening. They were to stay in their homes on the night of the 15th, and leave Egypt on the morning of the 15th. What you are saying is taking the verse completely out of context.

just like the sacrifice takes place well before the evening.

I asked you before if you offer your dinner guests raw bloody meat; or do you prepare it and offer it at the table. It was a question to be seriously considered.

You didn't answer.

Perhaps you can answer this question:

Is a fire offering complete at slaughter; or is putting it on the fire, part of the process of the offering?

(CLV) Ex 29:18
Then you will cause all of the ram to fume on the altar. An ascent offering is it to Yahweh. It is a fragrant odor, a fire offering to Yahweh.
 
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guevaraj

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I asked you before if you offer your dinner guests raw bloody meat; or do you prepare it and offer it at the table. It was a question to be seriously considered. You didn't answer. Perhaps you can answer this question: Is a fire offering complete at slaughter; or is putting it on the fire, part of the process of the offering?
Brother, in the case of the Passover offering that represents Jesus, the offering was His death. Do you also force God to mean "evening" when He wrote "morning"? God could have said "evening" as He did in Leviticus, but He chose to say "morning" and not "evening" to cap the end of the first day because He is saying something different here than what He said in Leviticus. He is saying the days of creation week end in a "morning" because they begin in a "morning". "Evening" falls in the middle of the days of creation week separating the day-half from the night-half of the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brother, in the case of the Passover offering that represents Jesus, the offering was His death. Do you also force God to mean "evening" when He wrote "morning"? God could have said "evening" as He did in Leviticus

I don't force YHWH to say anything. That's not how our relationship works. He speaks. I obey.

Do you obey YHWH? If so, when do your honor Yom Kippurim? Do you begin to honor his appointed day at sundown, or at sunrise?

(CLV) Lv 23:26
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying:

(CLV) Lv 23:27
Then on the tenth of this seventh month, it is the day of propitiatory shelters. It shall be a holy meeting for you, and you will humble your souls and bring near a fire offering to Yahweh.

(CLV) Lv 23:28
You shall do not work at all on this very day, for it is the day of propitiatory shelters so as to make a propitiatory shelter over you before Yahweh your Elohim.

(CLV) Lv 23:29
For every soul who is not humbled on this very day will be cut off from his kinsmen.

(CLV) Lv 23:30
And every soul who does any work on this very day, I will destroy that soul from among his people.

(CLV) Lv 23:31
You shall do not work at all. It is an eonian statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

(CLV) Lv 23:32
It is a sabbath of cessation for you, and you will humble your souls. On the ninth day of the month in the evening, from evening until evening shall you cease for your sabbath.
 
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