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What Sabbath did Moses keep?

  • from morning to morning

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • from evening to evening

    Votes: 11 84.6%

  • Total voters
    13

DamianWarS

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Brother, the two places where the word of God reveals the Sabbath kept show what God did when He made the seventh day of Eden "holy", setting the Sabbath in the Eden time zone for the world to keep together. That is why Israel remembers the Sabbath 10 hours before its local seventh day of the week. The Sabbath is not a day of the week in other places than Eden. The Sabbath is separate from the week in Israel. It moves from the seventh-day in Eden to the six-day in Israel according to your distance from Eden. The Sabbath in Israel gives us the site of Eden and falls on the International Date Line.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
You seem to enjoy obfuscated answers. I just want some clarity as to when you observe sabbath but I'm still not clear. You reject that it starts in evening yet observe it based on the evening in Israel so which is it? For clarities sake rather than use contextual references like "local seventh day". can you find a way to make less that's in need of interpreation on my end? If you like the Israel timezone then use 24 hour time base on GMT + 2 for all your time references so I know exactly what you're talking about. If it is a changing time based on the sun's position than clarify the sun's position (again be clear which timezone you prefer)
 
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guevaraj

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You seem to enjoy obfuscated answers. I just want some clarity as to when you observe sabbath but I'm still not clear. You reject that it starts in evening yet observe it based on the evening in Israel so which is it? For clarities sake rather than use contextual references like "local seventh day". can you find a way to make less that's in need of interpreation on my end? If you like the Israel timezone then use 24 hour time base on GMT + 2 for all your time references so I know exactly what you're talking about. If it is a changing time based on the sun's position that clarify the sun's position (again be clear which timezone you prefer)
Brother, GMT - 10 is what you are asking. What confuses people is to think that the Sabbath is a day of the week in Israel. What I have found is that a day is from morning to morning and not from evening to evening. The Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week because remembered is the Sabbath in the Eden time zone. The Sabbath is kept together by everyone in the Eden time zone. If you know a place where it is kept by direct instructions from God, you will know when it begins everywhere.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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DamianWarS

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Brother, GMT - 10 is what you are asking. What confuses people is to think that the Sabbath is a day of the week in Israel. What I have found is that a day is from morning to morning and not from evening to evening. The Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week because remembered is the Sabbath in the Eden time zone. The Sabbath is kept together by everyone in the Eden time zone. If you know a place where it is kept by direct instructions from God, you will know when it begins everywhere.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Still not clear. Why can't you be straight forward with this answer? GMT-10 is Hawaii so what exactly are you doing with this timezone and how does it determine how you calculate the Sabbath? You have mentioned 10:17 EST, you have mentioned Israel time zones, you have mentioned morning to morning and now Hawaii. This has got to be the most convoluted way to answer this question. I honestly have no idea how you determine when Sabbath is.
 
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guevaraj

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Still not clear. Why can't you be straight forward with this answer? GMT-10 is Hawaii so what exactly are you doing with this timezone and how does it determine how you calculate the Sabbath? You have mentioned 10:17 EST, you have mentioned Israel time zones, you have mentioned morning to morning and now Hawaii. This has got to be the most convoluted way to answer this question. I honestly have no idea when you determine when Sabbath is.
Brother, happy Sabbath! Eden was a place within the Hawaii time zone, but with a sunrise time on Saturday of 5:17 am. I have not found an exact match. I only get a longitude from the Sabbath in Israel and no latitude. I place it at 150.3 degrees West. Calculated using two nearby islands: Pape'ete on the Island of Tahiti and Tevairoa Island in the Bora Bora group. The time zone conversion tool at "timeanddate.com" with the sunrise time-table for the mentioned islands approximates the true biblical date change line by matching the local sunrise time to the start of the Sabbath in Israel. A possible closer site could be "Maiao iti", but I was unable to confirm a local sunrise when the Sabbath begins in Israel using the tools mentioned. The understanding began when I realized that the first day ends caped in a "morning" making the days of creation from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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DamianWarS

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Eden was a place within the Hawaii time zone
Now I'm more confused than ever. So Eden is a place in the middle of the south pacific? and you are determining sabbath based on approximately GMT - 10? It sounds like to me you take Israel's traditional time of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (GMT + 2) and then search for a place in the world where morning hits at the same time to reconcile this morning to morning theory of yours. And I will admit I may have this completed wrong these explanations of yours are far from clear.
 
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guevaraj

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Now I'm more confused than ever. So Eden is a place in the middle of the south pacific? and you are determining sabbath based on approximately GMT - 10?
Brother, to my astonishment, Eden falls on the International Date Line site. A real straight line instead of the irregular line from pole to pole due to islands changing sides to simplify trade with other nations.
It sounds like to me you take Israel's traditional time of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (GMT + 2) and then search for a place in the world where morning hits at the same time to reconcile this morning to morning theory of yours. And I will admit I may have this completed wrong these explanations of yours are far from clear.
You got it! What Israel is doing is keeping the Sabbath in the Eden time zone. This understanding harmonizes the difference in how the Sabbath is kept in two places: the first Sabbath in Eden from morning to morning and the remembered Sabbath in Israel from evening to evening. Verified was my understanding by falling on the International Date Line site as the site of our origin where God taught Adam to count the days with the week. Set was the site of the International Date Line by God when He taught Adam to count the days and God revealed it by making the seventh-day of Eden "holy". The Sabbath in Israel is not a weekday because the first day shows that the days of creation are from morning to morning and not from evening to evening.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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DamianWarS

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You got it!
I'm sorry getting it is the last thing I've got. I am not able to track with you on this. The sun is always setting and always rising upon the globe (it never ends) this theory seems to be banking heavily on a contextual interpretation of a few accounts, one that is not explicit nor shared with the rest of the bible and it more based on forcing accounts to reconcile. I can tell you this obsession for absolute reconciliation of details is not one shared by ancients and it is wholly a western phenomenon. Ancient accounts are more story and goal driven and the details presented within are there to support the goals of the accounts they are within and may in fact conflict with other accounts. it's called Hebraic block logic the details are there to support the goal in each account but don't always reconcile as comfortable as westerners want them to. For example, light comes before the sun. As I said this is a western problem, not an Ancient Hebrew problem.
 
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guevaraj

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not explicit nor shared with the rest of the bible and it more based on forcing accounts to reconcile.
Brother, it all makes perfect sense and I have not found anything that opposes my point of view.
I can tell you this obsession for absolute reconciliation of details is not one shared by ancients and it is wholly a western phenomenon. Ancient accounts are more story and goal driven and the details presented within are there to support the goals of the accounts they are within and may in fact conflict with other accounts. it's called Hebraic block logic the details are there to support the goal in each account but don't always reconcile as comfortable as westerners want them to.
I have comfortably reconciled the perceived discrepancies.
For example, light comes before the sun. As I said this is a western problem, not an Ancient Hebrew problem.
The sun gives light, nothing difficult to understand about where the light of the first day comes from. I have already addressed the perceived discrepancy with the fourth day, but will gladly cover them again with you. The whole word of God supports the days from morning to morning and no opposition is found in the word of God such as found opposition to thinking that the Sabbath in Israel is a weekday.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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DamianWarS

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Brother, it all makes perfect sense and I have not found anything that opposes my point of view.

I have comfortably reconciled the perceived discrepancies.

The sun gives light, nothing difficult to understand about where the light of the first day comes from. I have already addressed the perceived discrepancy with the fourth day, but will gladly cover them again with you. The whole word of God supports the days from morning to morning and no opposition is found in the word of God such as found opposition to thinking that the Sabbath in Israel is a weekday.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Keep the Sabbath how God is leading you. No one can speak ill against that. What you propose however is just not something I'm able to track with but if your motivated to give glory to God then that should be it's fruit and that I can agree with.
 
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guevaraj

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Keep the Sabbath how God is leading you. No one can speak ill against that. What you propose however is just not something I'm able to track with but if your motivated to give glory to God then that should be it's fruit and that I can agree with.
Brother, if you lose the peace of God, the rest that God gives you. I think you'll get it back starting your Sabbath when it starts in Israel. Then you can tell others about God's International Date Line (IDL).

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Victor in Christ

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A computer program might help you find ''a' Sabbath. Are you sure?.....better trusting in Christ and living by faith, wait till Christ returns and then you will KNOW. How many times did the Israelites loose their Sabbaths, months, seasons, etc when in Captivity?
 
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guevaraj

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A computer program might help you, or you could live by faith, wait till Christ returns and then you will KNOW.
Brother, I used Google Earth Pro.

IDL.png


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Victor in Christ

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There's lots of people fixated on a literal 1000 year golden age when Christ returns...too literal for me as i live by faith alone. Man may try to create such a utopia on earth but scripture tells us, the heavens and earth will be on fire as Christ returns burning up the chaff to judge everyone.
 
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guevaraj

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There's lots of people fixated on a literal 1000 year golden age when Christ returns...too literal for me as i live by faith alone. Man may try to create such a utopia on earth but scripture tells us, the heavens and earth will be on fire as Christ returns burning up the chaff to judge everyone.
Brother, we need to understand all that God has revealed in His word for the return of Jesus.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Victor in Christ

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Brother, we need to understand all that God has revealed in His word for the return of Jesus.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Jeremiah 8
At that time, saith the LORD, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves:

2And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.

3And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the LORD of hosts.

4Moreover thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?

5Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

6I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.

7Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

10Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

11For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

12Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

13I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.

14Why do we sit still? assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD.

15We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble!

16The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones; for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein.

17For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD.

18When I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart is faint in me.

19Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?

20The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
 
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guevaraj

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How many times did the Israelites loose their Sabbaths, months, seasons, etc when in Captivity?
Brother, you have given a reason for God to give us a verification in these last days of the accuracy of the Sabbath keeping by the Jews from the beginning by means of the International Date Line. The truth of the Sabbath has redundancy to assure its accuracy from the beginning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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SabbathBlessings

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For new posters in this tread, this is not an SDA belief, it is unique to the OP and goes against Biblical teachings and the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church Sabbath is from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. I know its confusing because the OP tags himself as an SDA when what he teaches is against the church belief we all made an oath when we became a member. In fact, teachings like this is a reason we were required to take an oath to become a member. Anyone can visit and attend an SDA church any Sabbath, but to be a member, we are to be united in our 28 fundamental beliefs.
 
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guevaraj

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For new posters in this tread, this is not an SDA belief, it is unique to the OP and goes against Biblical teachings and the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church Sabbath is from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. I know its confusing because the OP tags himself as an SDA when what he teaches is against the church belief we all made an oath when we became a member. In fact, teachings like this is a reason we were required to take an oath to become a member. Anyone can visit and attend an SDA church any Sabbath, but to be a member, we are to be united in our 28 fundamental beliefs.
Sister, it's another Jewish tradition the word of God opposes capping the end of the first day on a "morning" and not an "evening". They are wrong in many things that we must correct by studying the written word of God and not assume they are right because the "human tradition" is with us for so long.

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-13 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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HARK!

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Brothers and sisters, according to the manna story Moses kept a Sabbath from morning to morning. Every day except the day before a Sabbath, collected was the manna in the "morning" and lasted until the next "morning". The day before a Sabbath, it would last past the ending "morning" of the previous day until a second day that also ends in a "morning". Clearly, a day for the manna story because of the Sabbath is from "morning" to "morning". The Sabbath begins with a "morning" with no manna found and the previous day's manna lasts beyond the end "morning" of the previous day for two days instead of one. Notice that manna spoils in the morning, except when the next day is a Sabbath. For the manna story, the point on the line when the preparation day crosses over to the Sabbath is when it does not spoil in the morning.

Then Moses said to them, “No one is to keep any of it until morning.” However, some of them paid no attention to Moses; they kept part of it until morning, but it was full of maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them. Each morning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away. On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—two omers for each person—and the leaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’ ” So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. “Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a sabbath to the Lord. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” (Exodus 16:19-26 NIV)​

This is consistent with what Genesis reveals! God set the days of creation from morning to morning. In the case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning and later days until the Sabbath from morning to morning.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge


  1. Times for Israel

    Sunrise at

    06:26 AM

    Sunset at

    05:20 PM

  1. Times for Cairo

    Sunrise at

    06:40 AM

    Sunset at

    05:39 PM

(CLV) Gn 1:14
And Elohim said: Let luminaries come to be in the atmosphere of the heavens to separate between the day and the night, that they may be for signs, for appointed seasons, for days and years.

This verse makes no mention of the man made IDL.
 
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