Changing your mind about prophecy

[Timtofly]

I have the feeling, based on your response, that you are a pre-tribber. Given this, it makes sense that you would so totally miss the lesson in the video about our need to confront suffering and tribulation as part of our Christian testimony to the world; that argument is invisible to you, because your position is the opposite; you desire escape from those things.

The church has sought persecution and tribulation patience for 1990 years. Why would that change if Christ comes and gathers the final harvest during the Trumpets and Thunders?

 

[Timtofly]

Are you saying this is inaccurate? I mean, that's my understanding of pre-trib rapture belief; it is an escape from suffering, right?

No, it is not an escape. It is God's plan to remove humanity from the earth by death. He comes to earth personally on His throne. The church just happens to meet Him in the Air at that time.

 

[Timtofly]

In particular, the 144k will have protection from the stinging locust things, but this in no way suggests they will be protected from all suffering. They can still die. They can still feel hunger and pain. They will still need to reject the mark, without which they will not be able to buy or sell.

This is a blatant lie. If not a deceptive tactic. The 144k will never die, they were changed when God sealed them in their foreheads. They are sealed they can never be marked with a curse. They have no choice in who they are. If there are any true elect as Calvin taught, these 144k would be the only elect without a choice in the history of the world. We have no clue whatsoever what they will feel. They will never die. Revelation 14:1-5

Then I looked, and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Tziyon; and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
2 I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing waters and like the sound of pealing thunder; the sound I heard was also like that of harpists playing on their harps.
3 They were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living beings and the elders, and no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who have been ransomed from the world.
4 These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever he goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb;
5 on their lips no lie was found — they are without defect.

They are sealed and without defect, sin. They follow the Lamb everywhere. They can only die if they follow the Lamb in death. The Lamb is not going to die, ever. Should probably study more, before jumping to erroneous conclusions.

 

[Timtofly]

Both pre-trib and post-trib are really very easy to understand; one (pre-trib) is an escape from suffering; the other (post-trib) requires Christians to endure hardness as a result of resistance to an ever-increasingly evil system.

A little overkill to describe endurance by the return of Christ. One can move to many countries on earth and endure tribulation.

The Second Coming has endurance as a point, but many things about life has endurance as a point. Telling others about Christ in a public setting even in the US, can get you thrown into prison. Basing the rapture on endurance alone is totally missing the point of endurance at the least, and totally misses the point of the rapture altogether. No matter when the rapture happens it is the completion of the church, and then glorification. The wedding happens years later.

 

[Timtofly]

So, keeping in mind that the second death currently has no power over those who belong to Christ (whether dead or alive), why is it that you believe that one must be bodily resurrected in order for Revelation 20:6 to occur?

Who believes this? A bodily resurrection is necessary to carry out a physical act. Jesus had a bodily resurrection to interact with His disciples for the next 40 days. Those in Revelation 20:4 need a bodily resurrection to populate the earth for 1,000 years. It is part of God's plan, not some great theological conspiracy.

Those in Christ have an incorruptible body to enjoy Paradise with for a couple of Days.

The bonus about God's total care package just happens to not be part of the second death. There is not even a need to stand there at the GWT. That type of judgment happened on the Cross for those in Christ.

 

[Douggg]

The woe and sound of the 7th Trumpet last the whole of Satan's 42 months.

It is a time/times/half time the correct term, not 42 months. Please do not come back to me and say the 1260 days, the 42 months, the time/times/half times are equivalent to each other.

The earth is not destroyed because Jesus leaves earth 3.5 days or so after the 7th Trumpet has already been sounding non-stop. Christ and the 144k leave and only the 2 witnesses are left behind to encourage people to refuse the mark and avoid worship of Satan. They are also thorns to all those who worship Satan. They torment Satan and the FP. That is why the world rejoices at the end of the 42 months. Then those gift giving days turn into the wrath of God with the 7 Vials poured out onto the earth.

Tim you are going to have to make a timeline chart of all those claims, because what you are saying is not understandable verbally.

 

[Timtofly]

Otherwise if you believe Revelation to go in chronological order Jesus claims the world as His kingdom... and then hands it over to Satan and the Antichrist for 42 months? Nonsense.

What is the Covenant with the many? Jesus' 7 years on earth was the Covenant with the many. The Cross cut that short. The Second Coming is the completion of that 7 year Covenant. But the last 3.5 years shrink in size because of the church. There is something about the church failing that gives Satan those 42 months. The church is the current keeper of the vineyard after it was taken from Israel and given to the church.

IMO, not enough souls were harvested by the church. Remember how Abraham talked God into saving Sodom and Gomorrah? 50, 40, so on down to 10? Well the Covenant made has to do with souls left after the church and after the final harvest when God on the throne and the Lamb come in the 6th Seal. Too many souls left in the world!!! Satan gets his time, which extended the 8 day 7th Trumpet event to 42 more months and the 3.5 days left of the 7th Trumpet. If no souls are left, no need to split the 8 days in half.

It is John in Revelation 13:7 that declares this defeat caused by the church.

"it was allowed to make war on God’s holy people and to defeat them; and it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation."

God allowed it only because the Covenant specified something about the church. We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in places of authority. If Satan gets 42 months, the church lost this battle. The battle for lost souls.

Whatever is stipulated in that Covenant with the many that defines the 70th week, which is Jesus' earthly ministry, and the days of Jacob's trouble ends with the church responsible at the end. It was trouble the first 3.5 years, because Israel was judged and lost control of the vineyard. The same will be said of an apostate church when God Himself comes to harvest the vineyard this time around. Israel has had a few days of peace and a few peace treaties signed recently. That is about to come to a screeching halt, in the 4th seal, and the 7 Trumpets. If revival and God's healing happen before, during, the 4th seal, then Satan will have to forfeit the 42 months. It is up to the church. Not Satan nor God. Once the 6th Seal is opened, it is all over for the church.

 

[Timtofly]

It is a time/times/half time the correct term, not 42 months. Please do not come back to me and say the 1260 days, the 42 months, the time/times/half times are equivalent to each other.

Tim you are going to have to make a timeline chart of all those claims, because what you are saying is not understandable verbally.

There is only one set period. Call it by what ever means necessary. It is not 7 years. 7 year countdown started a year ago. Each day God tarries the shorter the Trumpets and Thunders. Satan's time is unchangeable without Christ breaking the Covenant with the many. God will never fail on His side, and will keep all agreements. The Second Coming cannot be calculated. However the 4th Seal will be the last sign.

 

[BABerean2]

The woe and sound of the 7th Trumpet last the whole of Satan's 42 months.

Once again, what you are claiming above is not found in the Bible.
Why do you make these wild claims without the scripture to back it up?

.

 

[John Helpher]

They have no choice in who they are.

This is probably the worst thing you can say about them. Look carefully at the description of them:

Revelation 14:4
"These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth."

They follow him just like Jesus said in the gospels, "Follow me". They are honest-to-God followers of Jesus who will do whatever he wants them to do, even if it means forsaking family, friends, reputation, the security that comes with working for a paycheck, and their own lives. They leave it all behind to follow him, just like he taught in the gospels (Luke 14:33).

Remember, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10). Prophecy has no meaning without reference back to Jesus and his teachings. He said we must forsake everything to follow him. These 144k do just that, and as a result they are God's elite leaders during this time. Up to this point, no church, government, or group can say they are God's kingdom here on Earth, and yet this group of people, organized by Jesus himself through his Holy Spirit will be the Kingdom of Heaven on earth for the final 7 years.

 

[Ki Won]

Hi all. I recently watched a video about a person who had changed his mind regarding his stance on pre-trib rapture. The video made some interesting points about just how difficult it is to change the way we perceive important, spiritual truths, especially when that change requires us to face difficult challenges.

The video is about 12 minutes long and I'd like to hear what others think.

Very good video. There are entire denominations that have the rapture taking place post-trib.. for example I belong to one that Christianity Today calls the 5th largest and fastest growing Christian denomination in the world. So it is not as though this message is not getting out one way or another. I thank you for posting that video it will do a lot of good.

Which denomination is that, Bob?

Yes, I changed my views from pretrib (something I was "taught" growing up} to post trib about 20 years ago when I finally started to study on my own.

And yes, it is at times very hard for some to unlearn what has been indoctrinated over time. I went in with a completely open mind wanting to learn truth, no matter what that truth is and accept the love of the truth. And the truth was easy to see about the timing. Christ lays it out perfectly with Paul as another great witness.

Bingo! Bullseye! Nail on the head! Virtually everybody believes what he/she believes and everybody else is wrong. Just take a look at the threads in this forum alone, so many people "right in his own eyes" and hard of heart and very few people actually here to be true Bereans and discover together what the Word says about what will soon be upon us.

If you can't approach each person's position with an open mind, i.e. willing to change your own position if necessary, then it's pointless even posting in this forum at all. I've been here just a few weeks and yet, despite all of my study to date, I have changed my understanding of a couple of verses/passages in the Bible.

Are we not all students? Isn't that what a disciple is? Are we not then supposed to be learning together rather than fighting each other? I am so disappointed with what I have found in this particular forum, I genuinely expected to find many people eager to find and hear Truth but instead each person already has their own truth so yours isn't needed (even if it's THE Truth!).

As regards pre-trib and pre-wrath, personally I have flip-flopped over the years but always with the belief that I couldn't really see what the teachers were teaching when I studied the Word myself. I am most definitely pre-wrath now and have begun steps to prepare for a difficult 42 months both physically and spiritually.

I'm not a Pre-triber but this guy has made the best case for it that I have every heard, based on the Typology of the Jewish Wedding Feast.

I like JD, he really is sincere and he really does love the Lord, that much is evident. He is one of the teachers that I regularly watch even though I disagree with his rapture beliefs. I also don't like that, like so many others, he has a political leaning - politics is of the devil and we should have no part in it including voting. But despite the two "flaws" he is a really good teacher of the Word, his series on the Song of Solomon is truly enlightening.

As far as I understand these are the rapture positions, the video is a bit off

Pretribulation
Belief in a "secret" rapture that takes place before the 70th week in its entirety. Is based off of considering all events in the 70th week to be "the tribulations" and considers the "tribulations" to all be God's wrath, so because we are not appointed to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) they use that to say we won't face any tribulations whatsoever. They differ in most cited rapture passage (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) in that while the verses show the rapture to be a very noisy event, and also connect it to the return of Christ, they want to make a distinction between the rapture and the second coming. Because they associate the second coming with Revelation 19, they think Matthew 24 parallels with Revelation 19 despite them being VERY different. Has only sparse scriptural support namely 2 Thessalonians 2:7 (interpreting the restrainer to be themselves, even though 2 Thessalonians 1-3 creates a contradiction with that interpretation), and Revelation 3:10, again, interpreting themselves to be the Church of Philadelphia (to which I say, Smyrna also did nothing wrong, but Smyrna was martyred). Focus is on a doctrine of imminence, based on the various "thief in the night" verses. Tends to interpret Revelation as being written in entirely Chronological order start to finish. Distinguishes themselves as "the church age" and separates themselves from "tribulation saints" and declares that the tribulations are for Israel, not them.

Midtribulation
Belief that the rapture takes place at the midpoint of the 70th week. I'm not as familiar with their doctrines or why they believe as they do. To be honest, I've never even talked with someone who's midtrib. I just know that it's distinct from pre wrath because it's set at the exact midpoint.

Prewrath
Belief that the rapture takes place after the tribulations, which are acts by men led by the Antichrist, but before the wrath of God, which are the trumpets and vials. Generally see the second coming as an enduring presence rather than 1 single day event, and generally take an imminence position after the abomination of desolation, being the last condition that needs to be fulfilled in their eyes before the rapture can happen. Typically sees Revelation divided up into at least 2 parallel narratives occupying the same time. Paramount to this belief is the separation of tribulation and wrath of God as 2 distinct things, and reconciling that we are not appointed to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), but Matthew 24 is a picture of the rapture and it happens immediately after the tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29-31).

Posttribulation
Like pretribulationists, believe that the entire 70th week is "the tribulations" and makes no distinction between tribulations and wrath of God. Believes that instead of rapturing Christians out of earth to protect them from the wrath, that God will protect them ON the earth while the wrath is being poured out. Sees the second coming as 1 single 24 hour day, and it is of paramount importance to them that "the day of the Lord" be treated as a literal 24 hour day. Often sees Revelation as being up to 7 different parallel narratives telling the same thing multiple times in different descriptive language.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by the bit I bolded/italicised in the quote. "An enduring presence" ? As in the Day of the Lord or Jesus' return in general? And again with the "imminence position", I don't think that the abomination is the " last thing" before the rapture can happen, the beast has 42 months so it's 42 months then Jesus returns/rapture (if we "survive" which is how perileipomai should be translated in 1 Thessalonians 4:17)

At minute 2:20, the speaker denounces the rationale of the pre-trib rapture. So it is easy to see where he is going. I didn't waste my time watching the rest of the video.

And this is why you learn nothing.. Seriously Doug, how much actual Bible teaching do you get from trained, learned or experienced Bible teachers? I know the above wasn't a trained teacher (I don't think) but what I see in your posts is an arrogance that you have it nailed and everybody else is wrong so what could you learn from them?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, it's why I occasionally listen to a prosperity gospel teacher or will read Catholic academic papers, I know that I can still learn something because God's Word never returns void.

I know you're a septuagint and I guess that's to be congratulated, but it shouldn't bar you from still being open to learning something new. But first you have to be prepared to accept that you're wrong and I don't see that from you, I see the opposite sadly

The woe and sound of the 7th Trumpet last the whole of Satan's 42 months.

The earth is not destroyed because Jesus leaves earth 3.5 days or so after the 7th Trumpet has already been sounding non-stop. Christ and the 144k leave and only the 2 witnesses are left behind to encourage people to refuse the mark and avoid worship of Satan. They are also thorns to all those who worship Satan. They torment Satan and the FP. That is why the world rejoices at the end of the 42 months. Then those gift giving days turn into the wrath of God with the 7 Vials poured out onto the earth.

Watching Doug and Tim discussing their end-time beliefs is like watching Stephen King and Terry Pratchett discussing the content of a potential joint collaboration or something, completely terrifying but thankfully complete fiction

 

[Ki Won]

This is probably the worst thing you can say about them. Look carefully at the description of them:

Revelation 14:4
"These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth."

They follow him just like Jesus said in the gospels, "Follow me". They are honest-to-God followers of Jesus who will do whatever he wants them to do, even if it means forsaking family, friends, reputation, the security that comes with working for a paycheck, and their own lives. They leave it all behind to follow him, just like he taught in the gospels (Luke 14:33).

Remember, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10). Prophecy has no meaning without reference back to Jesus and his teachings. He said we must forsake everything to follow him. These 144k do just that, and as a result they are God's elite leaders during this time. Up to this point, no church, government, or group can say they are God's kingdom here on Earth, and yet this group of people, organized by Jesus himself through his Holy Spirit will be the Kingdom of Heaven on earth for the final 7 years.

Except the tribulation isn't 7 years it's 42 months..

 

[John Helpher]

Except the tribulation isn't 7 years it's 42 months..

Agreed, but then again I didn't say the tribulation will last for 7 years. I only said that Jesus will organize this elite group of people at the beginning of the final 7 years. For the first 3.5 years they will most likely enjoy the same fake, religious tolerance that most of the world will be high on and they will need to use that time wisely to prepare themselves and anyone who will listen for the coming Great Tribulation.

 

[Ki Won]

Agreed, but then again I didn't say the tribulation will last for 7 years. I only said that Jesus will organize this elite group of people at the beginning of the final 7 years. For the first 3.5 years they will most likely enjoy the same fake, religious tolerance that most of the world will be high on and they will need to use that time wisely to prepare themselves and anyone who will listen for the coming Great Tribulation.

No no no John, I agree with so much you have posted in this thread but the "final 7 years" thing is a falsehood, once those seals start going we have 42 months to endure until Jesus returns and only 42 months, that's what the Bible says and I believe the Bible NOT what man has added to it.

 

[Douggg]

I know you're a septuagint and I guess that's to be congratulated, but it shouldn't bar you from still being open to learning something new. But first you have to be prepared to accept that you're wrong and I don't see that from you, I see the opposite sadly

At 71, and the video, I have heard it all before, countless times.

 

[nolidad]

Everything about prophecy is meant to reveal more of Jesus. I believe that is the case when it comes to the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:11 says the Beast is overcome by those who did not love their lives even unto death and by their testimony. These people were not afraid of tribulation. They did not view tribulation as wrath, but rather as something that needs to be overcome.

Perhaps there are some pre-tribbers out there who are genuine, in that they believe they will be raptured before the Great Tribulation, but still, in their hearts, they are prepared to suffer for their faith, but if so, they are very rare.

The pre-tribbers I talk to say they have no need to prepare for the Great Tribulation; they have no need to reject the mark or prepare for a time when they will not be able to buy or sell. They usually go the opposite way; they claim that anyone left behind is evil. Pre-tribbers tend to think of themselves as better than they really are; they are above tribulation. Yes, they give lip service to the concept; they know they're supposed to say they are willing to suffer for their faith, but really, they believe they are too righteous for that; they will be whisked up to Heaven before any such trial befalls them.

I believe this is why Jesus talked about people who will say he returned secretly to the desert or that he can be found in some secret chamber. It paints a picture of people who are panicking; they believed Jesus should have returned before all the trouble started and, rather than accept their mistake, they stubbornly create these alternative narratives about a secret return, to justify themselves.

Well prophecy is about jesus but it also reveals what happens on earth!

Tribulation in general is something we are more than overcomers in, but make no mistake--THE tribulation period is a time of Gods wrath being poured out on earth!

If you think that pre-tribbers willing to suffer for their faith are very rare, then you do not know many pre tribbers. I started as amill, then became post trib, then about 35 years ago converted to pre trib on the basis of Scripture and not an allegorical interpretation os SCripture.

Maybe in your neck of the woods pre -tribbers think too highly of themselves, but that doesn't make pre- trib truth wrong!

YOu can believe what you wish about when Jesus warned about people saying He returned in the desert or some secret place, but what you believe doesn't match Scripture.

Having taught a pre-tribulational dispensational eschatology in Churches, Bible College and bible Institutes now for over 30 years I know what I teach and many many many pre-trib pastors teach their congregations and it doesn't match your description at all.

But once again, when one learns the 2 reasons why God bring the 70th week of Daniel with all the seals, trumpets and bowl wrath, when one learns the many name s of the the Tribulation (not tribulation in general but the 70 th week of Daniel) and the promises God made to the body of Christ through Paul, Jude and John, and Jesus in the gospels, then one can only conclude the bible clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture. That is why we have no need to prepare for the mark.

 

[nolidad]

No no no John, I agree with so much you have posted in this thread but the "final 7 years" thing is a falsehood, once those seals start going we have 42 months to endure until Jesus returns and only 42 months, that's what the Bible says and I believe the Bible NOT what man has added to it.

No, for the tribulation period is a 7 year period and the 42 months or "the great tribulation" as jesus called it takes place with the events that unfold after the 6th angel sound his trumpet.

 

[nolidad]

It's strange to me that you take the thousand years literally, but spiritualize the "hour" and "last day" Christ referred to. He certainly never spoke of multiple occasions when the dead would be resurrected and never spoke of multiple judgment days.

For there is no warrant for us to take the 1,000 years as anything but literal. All explanations of teh 1,000 years I have heard over 45 years have no basis in reality.

And simply hour and day need to be understood in teh context of teh speakers just like the 1,000 years.

There is one time a 1,000 years is used figuratively and that is in Peter. It is so used for we see the phrase "a Day with the Lord IS AS a 1,000 years". clearly delineating it as symbolic.

Also in the Lords day the terms day and hour were often used symbolically of a passage of time that is undefined. Context and correlating passages determine whether day and hour are literal or symbolically used. We do not have the clear understanding that the speakers and listeners did for we are 20 centuries removed from how they used the language.

 

[nolidad]

Nope. That's a fairy tale that can't be supported by scripture. The one who confirms the covenant is clearly referring to the Messiah, who was the last individual who was focused on before Daniel 9:27. And, it's clear that Jesus fulfilled everything listed in Daniel 9:24 long ago.

YOu call yourself a spiritual Jew but do grave injustice to the Hebrew language by your wrong opinion.

Let us look at the passage and see.

Daniel 9:26-27
King James Version

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now the rule of grammar of Hebrew (and English as well) is that when a pronoun occurs in a phrase, IT MUST refer back to its nearest antecedent that corresponds to gender and number! IOW HE is a personal pronoun so it has to correspond to a personal noun and not an impersonal noun )place or thing).
It is also masculine and singular so it has to refer back to the first personal noun or pronoun that is both masculine and singular. So knowing how this pronoun has to be understood, all that any reader has to do is simply go backwards until they get to the first singular masculine personal noun! It is not Messiah, but the Prince, described as of the people who will come and destroy the sanctuary! Given that fact, all we do is look at what people destroyed teh sanctuary anytime after this prophecy and VOILA! we have our answer it is a prince of Rome (which also has many options to choose from ).

Also Jesus never entered into a 7 year covenant with Israel.

YOu and many others have allegorically tried to prove He did, but once again allegory is reading onto Scriptures things not there . I have seen teh game of spiritual twister several in this forum have made to try to get Jesus to fit the one who empowers and makes a strong 7 year covenant.

Now Jesus blood is the blood that establishes teh New Covenant, and He is currently mediating the New Covenant, but the new Covenant as SCripture declares it in Jeremiah 31:31-34 has not been fulfilled yet and that is an eternal and not a 7 year covenant.

 

[Ki Won]

Well prophecy is about jesus but it also reveals what happens on earth!

Tribulation in general is something we are more than overcomers in, but make no mistake--THE tribulation period is a time of Gods wrath being poured out on earth!

If you think that pre-tribbers willing to suffer for their faith are very rare, then you do not know many pre tribbers. I started as amill, then became post trib, then about 35 years ago converted to pre trib on the basis of Scripture and not an allegorical interpretation os SCripture.

Maybe in your neck of the woods pre -tribbers think too highly of themselves, but that doesn't make pre- trib truth wrong!

YOu can believe what you wish about when Jesus warned about people saying He returned in the desert or some secret place, but what you believe doesn't match Scripture.

Having taught a pre-tribulational dispensational eschatology in Churches, Bible College and bible Institutes now for over 30 years I know what I teach and many many many pre-trib pastors teach their congregations and it doesn't match your description at all.

But once again, when one learns the 2 reasons why God bring the 70th week of Daniel with all the seals, trumpets and bowl wrath, when one learns the many name s of the the Tribulation (not tribulation in general but the 70 th week of Daniel) and the promises God made to the body of Christ through Paul, Jude and John, and Jesus in the gospels, then one can only conclude the bible clearly teaches a pre-trib rapture. That is why we have no need to prepare for the mark.

No, for the tribulation period is a 7 year period and the 42 months or "the great tribulation" as jesus called it takes place with the events that unfold after the 6th angel sound his trumpet.

For there is no warrant for us to take the 1,000 years as anything but literal. All explanations of teh 1,000 years I have heard over 45 years have no basis in reality.

And simply hour and day need to be understood in teh context of teh speakers just like the 1,000 years.

There is one time a 1,000 years is used figuratively and that is in Peter. It is so used for we see the phrase "a Day with the Lord IS AS a 1,000 years". clearly delineating it as symbolic.

Also in the Lords day the terms day and hour were often used symbolically of a passage of time that is undefined. Context and correlating passages determine whether day and hour are literal or symbolically used. We do not have the clear understanding that the speakers and listeners did for we are 20 centuries removed from how they used the language.

Good Lord Nolidad, go and learn a bit of humility, "having taught [a lie] for over 30 years yada yada.." "All the explanations.. 45 years.." How blinkin arrogant of you to think because of your "experience" you know it all and everybody else is wrong!

Fwiw, you are bang wrong if you think the tribulation is 7 years, the beast is given 42 months, that's it! It says it right there in your Bible..