Changing your mind about prophecy

[notworthconsideration]

the OT it never said he comes two times, which is why many Jews reject Jesus as Messiah.

Even the wise men from the east knew Israel’s Messiah was coming; false prophets became as commonplace as pastors are now, and sought to use the expectations of the people of God to gain followers. They knew He was Messiah- even the Pharisees knew… that’s why they objected to the written charge, “Jesus of Nazareth kings of Jews.” In Latin, the charge was abbreviated INRI. In Hebrew, the charge against Jesus was abbreviated YHWH, that’s why they wanted it changed to “He Claimed to be…(YHWH)”
Even Pilate knew when he wrote the charge, who He was.
The people believed, but the Pharisees were, by Jesus’ witness, children of Satan, and they led the people astray by telling them He wasn’t Messiah and had Him killed.

They knew scripture, and they knew beforehand that God’s Son was coming and that they, Satan’s sons, would lie in wait for Him to appear. God had given the House of Judah a warning that would come in the form of a man, that He would turn from them for an unspecified amount of time if they failed to heed that warning. Jesus was that warning.
So yes, scripture did mention two separate visits, but scribes of the Masoretic text sought to disguise or erase prophecies about Jesus, and that was one of them.

 

[BobRyan]

My mind changed from what things I was taught when I saw how things happening with our civilization were also fulfilling biblical prophecies, in ways I never saw taught, but meaning then Mystery Babylon is near to its collapse and fall. Believers are not at all necessarily going to be caught up from this world to be with the Lord before that, though when the rapture would be is most uncertain in biblical prophecies.

Matt 24:29-31 makes it very clear the when Jesus appears that is when the rapture takes place
John 14:1-4 makes it very clear the when Jesus appears that is when the rapture takes place
Rev 19 - Jesus appears

Matt 24 says it is "After the tribulation"

That is when Jesus raptures the saints to heaven.

 

[iamlamad]

Hi all. I recently watched a video about a person who had changed his mind regarding his stance on pre-trib rapture. The video made some interesting points about just how difficult it is to change the way we perceive important, spiritual truths, especially when that change requires us to face difficult challenges.

The video is about 12 minutes long and I'd like to hear what others think.

"I know Jesus will protect me..." In the first seconds I hear this, and instantly remember that Daniel saw the Beast prevailing over the saints. John wrote the same thing in different words, that the Beast will overcome the saints.

The truth then is, Jesus is not going to be "protecting" anyone from the Beast. The tribulation saints are going to be overcome.

The video then stated that the pretrib rapture position comes from "islolated" texts that are twisted.

Question: did John write of the great crowd, too large to number (the just-raptured church) in chapter 19, when Jesus comes to Armageddon. or did he write it in chapter 7, and then begin the 70th week in chapter 8 at the 7th seal and with the first trumpet judgment? I am sure John wrote of this great crowd in chapter 7, just after he wrote of the start of God's wrath, at the 6th seal. Let's rehearse:

first: 6th seal start of God's wrath
second: the great crowd seen in heaven
third: the 7th seal start of the 70th week.

Since 6 always comes before 7 in counting, the rapture is clearly pretrib. No twisting, just understanding.

Which did Paul write of first in his classic rapture passage in 1 Thes.: the rapture or the Day of the Lord?"

He wrote of the rapture first, then three verses later wrote of the Day. Paul's order is, rapture first, then the DAY.

Which did Paul write of first in his classic rapture passage in 1 Thes.: the rapture or the start of God's wrath?

Paul's order is that the rapture will come JUST BEFORE wrath or the Day of His wrath. That places Paul's rapture just before the 6th seal start of the Day. Then John saw the church in heaven just after that.

In short, the video is all wrong, not following the written word of God.

 

[BobRyan]

The video gets may details correct even if a few are not quite right.

Matt 24:29-31 "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

What are the saints doing 'in the sky" ? well 1 Thess 4:13-18 says they are raptured there when Christ appears

John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

 

[FredVB]

Matt 24:29-31 makes it very clear the when Jesus appears that is when the rapture takes place
John 14:1-4 makes it very clear the when Jesus appears that is when the rapture takes place
Rev 19 - Jesus appears

Matt 24 says it is "After the tribulation"

That is when Jesus raptures the saints to heaven.

I don't know when believers are caught up to be with the Lord, and I don't believe there is anyone with enough certainty even with passages they use to know when it would be, even if they say they do. I do see that believers will be caught up to not be here where judgment in God's justice comes on those yet here who are all unrepentant with their rebellion to God, exploitation, destructiveness, and wickedness in general. But believers are not being removed with being caught up as the world seriously worsens, and believers are not excused from doing things they can for betterment, and that is needed.