Changing your mind about prophecy

[Douggg]

Nope. That's a fairy tale that can't be supported by scripture. The one who confirms the covenant is clearly referring to the Messiah, who was the last individual who was focused on before Daniel 9:27. And, it's clear that Jesus fulfilled everything listed in Daniel 9:24 long ago.

You need to change your beliefs to comply with the infallible Ezekiel 39 timeline framework for the end times. I think you have the 70th week ending with Stephen's death not Jesus.

 

[Rachel20]

I don't want to put people down.

Oh have some fun, we're used to it

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You need to change your beliefs to comply with the infallible Ezekiel 39 timeline framework for the end times. I think you have the 70th week ending with Stephen's death not Jesus.

I don't need to change my beliefs to comply with yours. Your timing of things is all out of whack. Completely. You pay no attention to the many scriptures that speak of all the dead being resurrected at the same event (Christ's second coming) and of there being one judgment day and of all unbelievers being killed on the day Christ returns.

 

[John Helpher]

Oh have some fun, we're used to it

Heh, well I kinda imagined you already felt put down. I mean, did say that I believe you are deceived! But maybe that's too strong. Mistaken?

 

[Douggg]

I don't need to change my beliefs to comply with yours. Your timing of things is all out of whack. Completely.

I am saying you need to change your beliefs to comply with the infallible timeline framework of Ezekiel 39.

It is a framework, not a timeline detailing every major event to take place during the seven years, completed when Jesus Returns.

 

[John Helpher]

The one who confirms the covenant is clearly referring to the Messiah, who was the last individual who was focused on before Daniel 9:27. And, it's clear that Jesus fulfilled everything listed in Daniel 9:24 long ago.

Actually, I think you're both right. The prophecy starts off talking about the Messiah, but it concludes with a person who's behavior results in abominations. I think it's referring to two agreements; one between the Antichrist and the flesh Jews who just want their temple back, and one between Jesus and his temple (i.e. the 144k faithful believers) into tribes. They are both true at the same time.

The AC reneges on his agreement halfway through the week (i.e. 3.5 years), thus marking the start of the Great Tribulation.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I am saying you need to change your beliefs to comply with the infallible timeline framework of Ezekiel 39.

No, I do not. You base your whole doctrine of one of the most difficult to interpret passages in all of scripture. That is not wise. We should form the foundation of our doctrine on clear scripture instead. Ezekiel 39 is certainly not clear since there are seemingly 1000 different interpretations of it.

It is a framework, not a timeline detailing every major event to take place during the seven years, completed when Jesus Returns.

I will never agree to any framework that denies that Jesus already fulfilled the 70th week long ago by shedding His blood to establish the new covenant.

 

[Rachel20]

Heh, well I kinda imagined you already felt put down. I mean, did say that I believe you are deceived! But maybe that's too strong. Mistaken?

you can't do better than that? lol I had confidence in you

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Actually, I think you're both right. The prophecy starts off talking about the Messiah, but it concludes with a person who's behavior results in abominations. I think it's referring to two agreements; one between the Antichrist and the flesh Jews who just want their temple back, and one between Jesus and his temple (i.e. the 144k faithful believers) into tribes. They are both true at the same time.

The AC reneges on his agreement halfway through the week (i.e. 3.5 years), thus marking the start of the Great Tribulation.

I disagree. There is never a focus on any individual in Daniel 9:24-27 except for the Messiah. To think that a reference to "the people of the prince" has the focus on the prince instead of the people just doesn't make any sense.

Also, it's entirely possible that the people of the prince destroying the city and the sanctuary is a reference to the Jews who had Jesus crucified, which would mean no other individual besides the Messiah is even mentioned at all in that prophecy.

 

[Devin Hammond]

I read the entirety of your post and commend you for being a Barean and searching the scriptures to see if these things are so. Your answer is long and barely touches the surface of the themes of prophecy that are all related and present a clear before and after picture centering on the single point of the 2nd coming where the night and day differences have taken effect. Great post and the greatest evidence is what the scriptures have to say not some church Father or author.

Thanks, I try to make a diligent effort to be informative with my posts. I hope you find what I write here useful.

 

[Douggg]

No, I do not. You base your whole doctrine of one of the most difficult to interpret passages in all of scripture. That is not wise. We should form the foundation of our doctrine on clear scripture instead. Ezekiel 39 is certainly not clear since there are seemingly 1000 different interpretations of it.

How complicated is this chart?

 

[John Helpher]

you can't do better than that? lol I had confidence in you

In my younger days I could muster a rather belligerent "THE TRUTH IS NOT IN YOU!!!!" but these days it just feels tiresome. I mean, I'm not beyond a good spot of pettiness, but I try harder to be cordial. Hmm, okay, lemme see...

The Bible makes it clear that if you were a real Christian, you'd agree with me! I really have to wonder about your salvation after this exchange!

Better? Oh right that reminds me, did you see a that comment a few posts up from the guy who said the author of the video should be locked up? I was genuinely taken aback by that at first but then I thought, meh, America is pretty hysterical at the moment; calls for locking up dissenters seems to have become popular.

 

[Rachel20]

The Bible makes it clear that if you were a real Christian, you'd agree with me! I really have to wonder about your salvation after this exchange!

Better?

"YOU'RE GOING TO HELL YOU SCUMBAG" is more what I had in mind, but I'll take it

 

[Rachel20]

Oh right that reminds me, did you see a that comment a few posts up from the guy who said the author of the video should be locked up? I was genuinely taken aback by that at first but then I thought, meh, America is pretty hysterical at the moment; calls for locking up dissenters seems to have become popular.

I hadn't seen that. These days are surreal

 

[John Helpher]

"YOU'RE GOING TO HELL YOU SCUMBAG" is more what I had in mind, but I'll take it

Sure, yours is better.

 

[John Helpher]

"YOU'RE GOING TO HELL YOU SCUMBAG" is more what I had in mind, but I'll take it

Why you little...

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I disagree. There is never a focus on any individual in Daniel 9:24-27 except for the Messiah. To think that a reference to "the people of the prince" has the focus on the prince instead of the people just doesn't make any sense.

Also, it's entirely possible that the people of the prince destroying the city and the sanctuary is a reference to the Jews who had Jesus crucified, which would mean no other individual besides the Messiah is even mentioned at all in that prophecy.

Hi Dan is full of prophecy about the kingdom that comes and has no end and in Dan 7 a pompous ruler is on the seen and is given power over the earth and is persecuting the saints for a time time and half a time and then the son of man who is before the ancient of days is given the kingdom and the pompous is destroyed and this kingdom is given to the saints of the most high. Now a time, times and half a time is 3 1/2 years so this prince who is persecuting would come in the middle of the week and this is the same time line the anitchrist ahs to persecute and have dominion, 42 months again this would be the middle of the week. So the pompous one and the beast are the same person and both are given to the flame at the coming of the kingdom. Now when you ad 2 Thes 2 to the mix we see the man of sin revealed in the temple claiming to be above all that is God and he too is destroyed at the coming of the LORD. so if he is revealed in the temple it would stand that this is the abomination of desolation coming in the middle of the week. The beast brings out the mark and image of the beast exactly with 42 months to go.
Many are confused because putting a stop to the sacrifice is a sign for the end but also a truth about the new covenant as Jesus did make an end of the need for the sacrifices to continue. Both of these ideas are not mutually exclusive. The 3rd temple sacrifices are not an acceptable sin offering in God's eyes but they will set the stage for the man of sin to be revealed.

 

[Timtofly]

Since pretrib was virtually unknown in the historical true Church before the 19th century, it is evident as to where apostasy has arisen.

It is found in the modernism of dispensational futurism.

And since no one knows which era of tribulation to post their beliefs to, it is also worthless.

 

[Timtofly]

No, it is not the return of Jesus, but the sounding of the 7th trumpet announces God taking His sovereignty and begins dismantling of Satan and his angels' kingdom from its control and influence over the nations of the world.

The 7th trumpet begins to sound a time/times/half time before Jesus returns.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

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The 7th trumpet announces the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth. Which will be Satan cast down to earth having great wrath knowing he has but a little time left. The time/times/half time.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The woe and sound of the 7th Trumpet last the whole of Satan's 42 months.

The earth is not destroyed because Jesus leaves earth 3.5 days or so after the 7th Trumpet has already been sounding non-stop. Christ and the 144k leave and only the 2 witnesses are left behind to encourage people to refuse the mark and avoid worship of Satan. They are also thorns to all those who worship Satan. They torment Satan and the FP. That is why the world rejoices at the end of the 42 months. Then those gift giving days turn into the wrath of God with the 7 Vials poured out onto the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

The Great Tribulation will be one, last warning to the world and we will be the representatives of that warning. It would make no sense for God to take his servants from the world just when the world will need them most. We will be the spiritual leaders at that time, demonstrating through our suffering and persecution that there really is a God and he really is worthy dying for.

The Lamb, Jesus Christ Himself and the 144k will be the witnesses during the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. It is the final harvest and God, the Lamb and his angels are collecting the souls of humanity. The church was collected in the 6th Seal.

Revelation 6 says the angels, God on the throne and the Lamb come to earth after the heavens are rolled back and all humanity can see them. Then the Lamb completes the rest of His Earthly ministry. The 7th Trumpet is the preparation for The millennial kingdom on earth.