Does the recently confirmed existence of UfO's pose a threat to Christianity?

[AmigodeJesus]

The whole 'aliens' thing (sin is alien to God's nature, and the Christian is alien upon this world, being pilgrim, and satan and those which followed him are alien in the sense of being not originally from here - earth), arises from an evolutionary mindset, in which it replaces the second coming of Jesus Christ, with another visitation scenario. Isn't it interesting that in some 'alien' scenarios it is a blessing to some, and to others a great destruction from above. Sounds just like Jesus returning from His own world (3rd Heaven) to us, delivering some and destroying others from above (courtesy of 1 Thessalonians 4 & 2 Thessalonians 1:8).

It's just a counterfeit to truth. A secular counterfeit, and yet very religious at the same time (dealing with origins, salvation from ourselves, advanced and ancient lifeforms, inhabited worlds and so forth). Of course, satan can use this deception to counterfeit a second coming of Jesus in a secular sense (and the Vatican's own insiders know this and are already in contact with devils, which masquerade as 'aliens').

 

[Davy]

Genesis 6 does not mention anything about fallen angels. No the stories of cross-species hybrid half-human beings. Let's be serious.

Good point - anyone injecting cross-species human angel hybrid fictions into Gen 6 is probably not paying attention to detail.

Matt 22 informs us that Christ does not support such "stories" as He declares that angels as a species do not even have the function of forming family units within their own species - let alone across species.

It just does not get any easier than that.

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
KJV

At that time, the "sons of God" meant angels.

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
KJV

So Gen.6:2 is saying angels saw the daughters of men, which means flesh daughters, and those angels took wives of them, literally. That means they came down to earth to do that, which is specifically what the Jude 1:6 Scripture tells us, that they kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, and are thus kept in chains under darkness until the Judgment.

Gen 6:4
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
KJV

That is emphatic that the union of the "sons of God" (angels) with flesh women produced a HYBRID OFFSPRING called the Nephilim from the Hebrew, translated as "giants" in the above verse.

It says there those giants were "men which were of old, men of renown." The idea of their being "men of renown" means 'men of the name', i.e., of the legend, i.e., the ancient mythologies. The phrase "and also after that" means there was a 2nd irruption of them sometime after the flood, which accounts for the later giants like Goliath which David killed.

Gen 6:9
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
KJV

The Hebrew for the word "perfect" there is the same word used for perfect unblemished sacrificial lambs required per the old covenant worship. It means Noah's bloodline was pure from the man Adam. He had not mixed. So the subject of the Genesis 6 is DEFINITELY, about bloodline purity in a time when some of the angels kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation to co-habit with flesh women on earth.


Buffalo Bill's Autobiography Account of the Giants:

I bought 2 copies of Buffalo Bill's autobiography where he repeated a story about the flood told him by one of his Pawnee Indian scouts. I read his quote somewhere and I wanted to see if he actually included that in his autobiography, so I got two very early edition copies one printed in 1920.

"While we were in the sand-hills, scouting the Niobrara country, the Pawnee Indians brought into camp, one night, some very large bones, one of which a surgeon of the expedition pronounced to be the thigh-bone of a human being. The Indians claimed that the bones they had found were those of a person belonging to a race of people who a long time ago lived in this country. That there was once a race of men on the earth whose size was about three times that of an ordinary man, and they were so swift and powerful that they could run along-side of a buffalo, and taking the animal in one arm could tear off a leg and eat the meat as they walked. These giants denied the existence of a Great Spirit, and when they heard the thunder or saw the lightning they laughed at it and said that they were greater than either. This so displeased the Great Spirit that he caused a great rain-storm to come, and the water kept rising higher and higher so that it drove those proud and conceited giants from the low grounds to the hills, and thence to the mountains, but at last even the mountain tops were submerged, and then those mammoth men were all drowned. After the flood had subsided, the Great Spirit came to the conclusion that he had made man too large and powerful, and that he would therefore correct the mistake by creating a race of men of smaller size and less strength. This is the reason, say the Indians, that modern men are small and not like the giants of old, and they claim that this story is a matter of Indian history, which has been handed down among them from time immemorial."

(from The Life of Hon. William F. Cody Known as Buffalo Bill, the Famous Hunter, Scout and Guide. An Autobiography.)

 

[Hmm]

Thanks for all that Amigo.

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis 6 does not mention anything about fallen angels. No the stories of cross-species hybrid half-human beings. Let's be serious.

I'll not argue with one who is so daft when it comes to the actual Genesis 6 Scripture as written.

Good point - anyone injecting cross-species human angel hybrid fictions into Gen 6 is probably not paying attention to detail.

Matt 22 informs us that Christ does not support such "stories" as He declares that angels as a species do not even have the function of forming family units within their own species - let alone across species.

It just does not get any easier than that.

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

A great example of a text that does not mention angels or half-humans or a half-human species.

At that time, the "sons of God" meant angels.

Not according to Moses who wrote the text.

Deut 32:8

English Standard Version
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

Berean Study Bible
When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when He divided the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.



International Standard Version
When the Most High gave nations as their inheritance, when he separated the human race, he set boundaries for the people according to the number of the children of God.


American Standard Version
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, When he separated the children of men, He set the bounds of the peoples According to the number of the children of Israel.



Matt 5:9

Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.


John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


and after the cross


1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Buffalo Bill's Autobiography Account of the Giants:
I bought 2 copies of Buffalo Bill's autobiography where he repeated a story about the flood told him by one of his Pawnee Indian scouts.

Ok - I have to admit - I had not thought about that.

BTW two points to remember here
1. I am not arguing that there were not people alive before the flood that lived over 900 years and were about twice as tall as people are today.
2. I am not clear what in the world Genesis 6:1-2 has to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[Davy]

Genesis 6 does not mention anything about fallen angels. No the stories of cross-species hybrid half-human beings. Let's be serious.

Good point - anyone injecting cross-species human angel hybrid fictions into Gen 6 is probably not paying attention to detail.

What a baloney statement that is! and I mean a whole slab... of baloney! (brethren, baloney is made up of all kinds of animal parts, processed into a round sausage looking slab. It's not worth even feeding to dogs, much less to people.) Detail is what I do, and directly from God's, which I did in Genesis 6. If you have an private agenda against God's written Word, let's talk about when that began to take hold upon you, since you clearly refuse to address the Gen.6 Scripture as it's actually written.

Matt 22 informs us that Christ does not support such "stories" as He declares that angels as a species do not even have the function of forming family units within their own species - let alone across species.

Major problem with your reading though, in Matthew 22:30, Jesus is talking about those of the "resurrection", not the angels in Gen.6 that co-habitated with flesh women and caused the giant hybrid race. Angels are not resurrected anywhere in God's Word, so how is it you don't know that? It would appear you really don't know much of God's Word at all, but are only here to play games, like a TROLL.

 

[Davy]

Not according to Moses who wrote the text.
....

Too late, I already gave the evidence from Scripture who the "sons of God" meant in the OT, within the Book of Job. Flesh men don't appear before God's Throne in Heaven with Satan accompanying them.

Matt 5:9

Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

and after the cross

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Don't forget this one...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
KJV

That "sons of God" phrase is obviously not an idea involving this present world in the flesh body of today. It's because it points to the "spiritual body" which is the body type of the resurrection (1 Cor.15). This is why Jesus also said those of the resurrection are "as the angels of God in heaven" (Matthew 22:30, a Scripture you even referred to!).

Ok - I have to admit - I had not thought about that.

BTW two points to remember here
1. I am not arguing that there were not people alive before the flood that lived over 900 years and were about twice as tall as people are today.
2. I am not clear what in the world Genesis 6:1-2 has to do with the topic of this thread.

It started with my post #307 evidently, where I said there's no such thing as aliens written of in God's Word, but there are fallen angels written of.

Whats more important, is that Lord Jesus suggested a group of Satan's angels are going to return to this earth at the end of this present world like in the days of Noah:

Matt 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

Who in Genesis 6 was marrying and taking in marriage? The "sons of God" (angels) that saw the daughters of men and took wives of them, and produced the Nephilim hybrid race of giants.

Num 13:32-33
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, "The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
KJV

According to the non-believer, those Israelites must have been 1) on drugs, or 2) lied, or 3) this Scripture was added by man sometime later, or 4) they actually saw a real hybrid giant race of men of very large stature comparing their size as a grasshopper to the size of those giants.

 

[Cis.jd]

People are claiming that it's ANGELS who are travelling to Earth in UFOs??


And my point is that angels don't travel in rocket ships, etc.

They, being spirits, quite obviously have no need of that sort of thing.

It maybe a crazy conspiracy at first but it I can see where they are coming from with this, at least for fallen angels. I am on the boat of people who believe Gen 6 is about the fallen angels.

If Angels fell from heaven and entered our universe with out the grace of God then it can be assumed that they ended being subjected to the laws in the universe. ?

So I can see the assumption that by falling into the universe, not only did they become bound to gravity but also ceased to become immaterial - becoming matter, and developed a physical form. The Physical form that man has imagined through out the ages (even as back as the ancient worlds as some archaeological has shown) which is the Aliens we imagine today.

 

[Albion]

It maybe a crazy conspiracy at first but it I can see where they are coming from with this, at least for fallen angels. I am on the boat of people who believe Gen 6 is about the fallen angels.

If Angels fell from heaven and entered our universe with out the grace of God then it can be assumed that they ended being subjected to the laws in the universe. ?

But this isn't just about angels. Are you also saying that you think they travelled to Earth in space ships?

So I can see the assumption that by falling into the universe, not only did they become bound to gravity but also ceased to become immaterial - becoming matter, and developed a physical form. The Physical form that man has imagined through out the ages (even as back as the ancient worlds as some archaeological has shown) which is the Aliens we imagine today.

 

[BobRyan]

Too late, I already gave the evidence from Scripture who the "sons of God" meant in the OT, within the Book of Job. Flesh men don't appear before God's Throne in Heaven with Satan accompanying them.

Too late - I already posted the evidence from Moses' writing in Deut 32 and from the NT that the term "sons of God" is never used for people that choose to follow God. What is more .. .it is never a term used for demons/fallen angels/ etc ... In Job "Satan comes in among them" but he is not one of them - because it is a term for the faithful humans and faithful angels in the Bible.

BTW - what in the world does this have to do with the subject of the thread??

 

[BobRyan]

People are claiming that it's ANGELS who are travelling to Earth in UFOs??

And snakes don't talk.
And Pharaoh's sticks could not turn into snakes apart from the work of Satan.

The alternative to the UFO theories floating around - is that Satan is in the business of deception - not that he abides by the stores the ufo theorists are telling.

Satan is not from this world, and does not need space ships -- he needs us to think that spaceships come here from other worlds so that we can then be introduced to a whole host of ideas that conflict with the Gospel.

All he has to do (as in the case of Eve and of Pharaoh) is put on a convincing show for people to "observe".

 

[BobRyan]

Don't forget this one...

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
KJV

That "sons of God" phrase is obviously not an idea involving this present world in the flesh body of today.

Why say that when the text says "now are we the sons of God," ??

 

[Albion]

And snakes don't talk.

Talking snakes make a whole lot more sense than angels travelling to Earth in UFOs, that's for sure!

 

[Cis.jd]

But this isn't just about angels. Are you also saying that you think they travelled to Earth in space ships?

I can't say i really "i think" this is the case because I understand it sounds silly but just for the info about this conspiracy theory: how can angels just "fall"/arrive to this planet given the knowledge we know about the solar system, gravity, the atmosphere of our earth, and the planets?

It's hard to accept it as rational theory because many of us have grown with the impression of beings of heavenly origin to be something on the lines of an apparition but this is the conspiracy beliefs involving aliens and fallen angels.

 

[The Liturgist]

And it used to be that the scientific consensus was no "bending space time" for cold fusion or traveling through water and air without any difference in flight. Only later to find that that patent by the Navy is approved as being "operational".

Actually, cold fusion is now generally regarded as impossible - the only real progress in fusion involves “hot fusion” with continuing work on Tokamak type toroidal reactors. But even these, despite spending, to paraphrase Futurama, “dump trucks filled with burning money,” are unproven; right now, scientists are still unable to produce net energy from a controlled nuclear fusion reaction. The only net energy release thus far has been from thermonuclear weapons.

And as far as “bending space time,” we aren’t even close to anything like an Alcubierre drive, as that would require exotic matter.

 

[Cis.jd]

"The sons of God" can be understood as angels else because the context shows a distinction between humans as it references "daughters of men". Even early Christian theologians such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Eusebius, believed that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6:1–4 were fallen angels

If you look at all the pagan gods of the ancient world from Hinduism, Egypt, Sumeria, Babylon, etc how did people just come up with this and create a religion out of it? Those pagan gods where likely the Nephilim talked about in Genesis.

 

[Jipsah]

Actually, cold fusion is now generally regarded as impossible - the only real progress in fusion involves “hot fusion” with continuing work on Tokamak type toroidal reactors. But even these, despite spending, to paraphrase Futurama, “dump trucks filled with burning money,” are unproven; right now, scientists are still unable to produce net energy from a controlled nuclear fusion reaction. The only net energy release thus far has been from thermonuclear weapons.
And as far as “bending space time,” we aren’t even close to anything like an Alcubierre drive, as that would require exotic matter.

Killjoy.

 

[AmigodeJesus]

And snakes don't talk.
And Pharaoh's sticks could not turn into snakes apart from the work of Satan.

The alternative to the UFO theories floating around - is that Satan is in the business of deception - not that he abides by the stores the ufo theorists are telling.

Satan is not from this world, and does not need space ships -- he needs us to think that spaceships come here from other worlds so that we can then be introduced to a whole host of ideas that conflict with the Gospel.

All he has to do (as in the case of Eve and of Pharaoh) is put on a convincing show for people to "observe".

Satan merely stole the idea from the Bible. Consider:

Gal_4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

That "city", and all its beautiful shining light and colours (rainbow), which travels through the Heavens, and will come down upon the earth in the 3rd Advent.

Think "mother-ship", for a city is also like a ship, see the Ark upon the great Flood in Noah's day in Genesis 6-9 compared to New Jerusalem on the great Sea of Fire in Revelation 20.

 

[LoveofTruth]

This is interesting because the book of Enoch was not written by Enoch, is not in the Hebrew OT and was supposedly the work of Enoch who did not live in the NT.

So I prefer the OT books actually in the OT or the NT books actually in the NT.

Still I agree that whoever wrote the book of Enoch all those thousands of years after Enoch lived... did add ideas about angels and humans to what we find in Gen 6 not mentioning it.

And it is instructive that in Matt 22 Jesus says Angels as a species don't even have the function of forming families much less procreation with other species.




agreed - rebellion seen in Sodom and rebellion seen among the angels that went to war against God and were expelled.

This is from the book of Enoch

“ Jude 1:14. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,15. To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

 

[Davy]

Too late - I already posted the evidence from Moses' writing in Deut 32 and from the NT that the term "sons of God" is never used for people that choose to follow God. What is more .. .it is never a term used for demons/fallen angels/ etc ... In Job "Satan comes in among them" but he is not one of them - because it is a term for the faithful humans and faithful angels in the Bible.

BTW - what in the world does this have to do with the subject of the thread??

Obviously, you haven't understood the Book of Job even. The "sons of God" appearing before God's Throne takes place IN HEAVEN, which is HOW Satan was able to come along with them before God's presence.

Man, the public school systems today really are dumbing down God's people! The Job context is so simple a small child should be able to understand it.

 

[Davy]

Why say that when the text says "now are we the sons of God," ??

You're kidding, right?

Do I have to explain every Scripture to you?

It means those in Christ today are 'called' "sons of God" only, BECAUSE... what does the REST of the verse that YOU LEFT OUT say?

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
KJV

In other words, John is saying even though already we are known as "sons of God", it doesn't yet appear today just what that looks like, but we do know that when Lord Jesus returns, we will look like His image body, and we will see Him as He really looks. It's really that simple; the "sons of God" phrase refers to the angelic state we all shall be in when Jesus returns.

Or maybe you believe in eastern religious reincarnation that is not written in God's Word? The resurrection body is NOT one of flesh and blood. Paul emphasized that in 1 Corinthians 15:47-50. And like I quoted Jesus from Matthew 22:30, those of the resurrection are AS THE ANGELS OF GOD IN HEAVEN! Jesus pointed directly... to the angelic type state for the resurrection with that, not a new flesh type body.

And that... in turn points directly to the state of the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 as meaning ANGELS.