Does the recently confirmed existence of UfO's pose a threat to Christianity?

[BobRyan]

I started this thread in Nov 2019... but as of July 2020 the new "step wise" bombshell is "off-world vehicles" recovered. ==== Google it.

And and google astrophysicist govt contractor by the name of Eric Davis - briefing the DOD on what he calls off-world vehicles.


Start with PopularMechanics - they have the best commentary -
Government UFO Research | Pentagon Has UFO Vehicles, Materials

• "In fact, Davis briefed a Department of Defense (DOD) agency as recently as March about retrieving materials from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”

The world is being desensitized to this sort of information to the point that it is accepted as every-day news. A step close to Standard Operating Procedures - where the world begins to "expect" news along this line to come to light every few months. The perfect environment for the 2 Thess 2 effect. In fact Matt 24 predicts such a shock-and-awe program "that if possible it would deceive the very elect"

===================

Ex-Pentagon Official: ‘Off-World Vehicles’ Have Been Found

Pentagon Has ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth'

In March, astrophysicist Eric W. Davis, who spent years working as a consultant for the Pentagon UFO program and is now a defense contractor, gave a classified briefing to the Defense Department on what he called “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.” In other words, spaceships.

The bombshell quote came in the latest UFO report from the New York Times,

No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon’s U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public

• "Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.”

===============================================

U.F.O. -- Pentagon Consultant Briefed Senators on 'Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth' | National Review

 

[BobRyan]

Except in Genesis 6, which is clearly about the fallen angels

Genesis 6 does not mention anything about fallen angels.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Genesis 6 does not mention anything about fallen angels.

Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
• Genesis 6:1-2

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
• Job 1:6

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
• Job 2:1

"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
• Job 38:4-7

.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I would be Christian still knowing there is life, and even intelligent life, on other worlds. They would be no more capable of coming to our world than we are capable to come to theirs.

You might enjoy the CS Lewis' Space Trilogy. The man was not only brilliant and personable, but wise. His insights are probably going to inspire Christians until the end.

 

[AmigodeJesus]

Sept 2019 the U.S. Navy confirms existence of UFOs with hard evidence including visual sightings over a period of years -- and also tracking them on radar as well as engaging them in arial maneuver (dog fights) where they are not firing on anything just trying to follow/track it.

Does your view of Christianity view this as a threat to Christianity?

I do not see it as a threat to Christianity in the way in which the question is asked, but it is a threat in the sense that it is the machinations of devils that seeks to undermine the Biblical history.

UFO's which is nothing but Unidentified Flying Objects (as opposed to IFO's), and could be any number of things, including fallen angel deceptions (satan is the prince of the power of the air, and the Bible speaks of principalities in high/heavenly places), as some of the UFO's defy all known laws (speed, gravity, inertia, reason and logic, as well as contradict themselves by region, location, information that may or may not be provided by any such 'contact' associated therewith).

Radar's are simply machines, which can be manipulated by satan as much as anything else here, and so likewise recording equipment, &c. A pretty neat video on the subject is called "Alien Intrusion - Unmasking A Deception" (though it isn't perfect in it's theological aspects), and can be viewed here:

https://www.bit-chute.com/video/kYqttp4jQm3X/

Just remove the "-" between "bit" and "chute", as this website's anti-swearing heuristics are set too high.

 

[Davy]

Genesis 6 does not mention anything about fallen angels.

I'll not argue with one who is so daft when it comes to the actual Genesis 6 Scripture as written.

 

[Hmm]

If there is intelligent life on other planets, not that there's much on ours!, I wonder if this means that God as the Son would become incarnate on that world too in whatever form that would be. Or was his saving act here meant for all life in theuthe entire universe in the same way that Israel was chosen to be the light for the whole world?

 

[Tom 1]

Sept 2019 the U.S. Navy confirms existence of UFOs with hard evidence including visual sightings over a period of years -- and also tracking them on radar as well as engaging them in arial maneuver (dog fights) where they are not firing on anything just trying to follow/track it.

Does your view of Christianity view this as a threat to Christianity? a threat to evangelism in the context of a public being informed that UFO's are real and not merely swamp gas? Or will it increase the ability to evangelize the public in favor of Christianity in your view?

Many people who have been discussing this idea for a long time ... claim that publicly admitting to it would be a problem for Christianity.

(After 12 pages -- I am coming to this conclusion -- 2 minutes ago #235
)
================================================
Look at this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
And this one -- Wednesday at 10:12 PM #190 (History)

CNN Sept 2019..

May 2019 ABC News GoodMorningAm George Stephanopoulos, Chris Mellon interview with lots of vid
2:35 What are you seeing?.. What I am seeing and what the experts we have brought in to view these tapes are seeing is something that is frankly baffling

• "It’s hard to understand – how do these vehicles maintain lift
• "How are they propelled? There are no wing surfaces and there is no exhaust.
• "So there’s nothing that we are familiar with that we have deployed in the air that has a power source other than fuel .. chemical energy power source.
• "These are so radically different than anything we are familiar with and their performance is so advanced and so sophisticated it is baffling (3:11)

– 4:35 "how do you explain all this full disclosure yet no reaction??

Christopher Mellon: former United States Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence (the third highest intelligence position at the The Pentagon) and later for Security and Information Operations. He formerly served as the Staff Director of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

--Fox news 00:00 Sep 19 starts with Navy official acknowledgement Sept 2019
00:35 this seems like a “change” in the way govt/navy is addressing the topic
1:25 so US Govt admitting … this is watershed moment.. but not getting public reaction? Why?

History Channel – all 3 primary DOD videos - source of videos finally identified (see 2 minute point in this next video)

================================

compilation -
ufo news 2019 Nov - Bing video

=====================================

How all this news - came about - in the first place.

3:15 len: Fox News Christopher Mellon May 2019

00:25“we know UFOs exist
02:13 – History channel clip from unexplained.
03:00 operating in and around military installations
- intelligently controlled vehicles
- Safety issues - near mid-air collision with our military pilots
- US Sovereignty being violated by vehicles of unknown origin

============================= burden of proof has shifted.
As of 2019 --

Michio Kaku 0:39 seconds burden of proof shifts to UFO denier. “Game changer” fox news post it

Michio Kaku on US Navy UFO Confirmation - " The Evidence is Overwhelming"

0:54 “What has changed what is different now? We witnessing a tipping point ..the burden of proof has changed” It is now on those who want to make the case that UFOs are not what we are seeing. (Sept 2019)

Michio Kaku:
American theoretical physicist... professor of theoretical physics in the City College of New York and CUNY Graduate Center. ... He has written the New York Times best sellers: Physics of the Impossible (2008)


But what are the odds that 15 to 20 years ago we and the russians and the Chinese had drones going 20 times the speed of sound and would not generate a sonic boom as they did so?
===========================
Consider this

1. We never say "swamp gas is not authorized to be in U.S. airspace"
2. We never say "swamp gas is a national security and safety problem"
3. we never say "incursion into our air space by some kind of aerial vehicle" is the kind of infraction that swamp gas is guilty of doing.

And yet... we have this.

==================================
From: https://www.history.com/news/navy-confirms-ufo-videos-real

Navy Confirms UFO Videos Are Real and Show Unidentified Aerial Phenomena
HISTORY

VIEW: Declassified: UFOs Captured on Video by U.S. Fighter Pilots

The news that the Navy considers the three videos—unofficially known as “FLIR1,” “Gimbal” and “GoFast”—as examples of UAPs first appeared on The Black Vault, a web site that specializes in declassified government documents. “FLIR1” is from November 14, 2004, and “Gimbal” and “GoFast” are from January 21, 2015. Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, emphasized to HISTORY that these videos represent only some of the UAP sightings the Navy is investigating.

“Those three videos are just part of a larger effort by the U.S. Navy to try and investigate a series of incursions into our training ranges by phenomena that we’re calling unidentified aerial phenomena,” says Gradisher, who declined to say how many sightings there have been. “Our aviators train as they fight. So when they’re out there training, if there’s an incursion by any kind of aerial vehicle phenomena, whatever, it puts the safety of our aviators at risk as well as the security of our training operations.”

READ MORE: Are UFOs a Threat to National Security? This Ex-U.S. Official Thinks They Warrant Investigation

To be clear, the Navy is not saying that these videos show evidence of alien life. Rather, the Navy is saying it can’t identify the phenomena in the videos. The Navy considers UAPs like these a national security and safety problem because they are not authorized to be in U.S. airspace. After a series of classified briefings featuring Navy pilots and lawmakers this summer, the Navy announced it had formalized its process for pilots and other personnel to report UAPs so that records of these sightings are more consistent, and therefore easier to investigate.

===========================
Regarding this post -- Monday at 7:32 PM #161 (CBS Inside Edition)
we have.
1. No flight control surfaces
2. Bounces when it changes direction like a ping pong ball bouncing off a board
3. Rapid 2 to 3 second acceleration to mach 28 past horizon - then back in a few seconds hovering again.
4. Accelerate through Mach 20, Mach 28 speeds without triggering sonic booms
5. Easily out maneuvers top of the line jet fighters.
6. Unauthorized incursions into our air space and we don't fire on them or do anything to inform them they are not authorized. They operate with impunity.

=====================
A history of documented above-top-secret classification regarding this topic
10 Shocking Statements about UFOs by Scientists and Government Officials | Mysterious Universe

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...os-are-real-navy-says-please-stop-saying-ufo/

========================================
Update April 2020
Those "announcements" above were all from 2019.. but now in 2020 -- April - the DOD has come out to "remind us" that they already told us all this and that it is all "legit".

Statement by the Department of Defense on the Release of Historical Navy Videos > U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE > Release


https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/pentagon-declassifies-three-ufo-videos-taken-by-us-navy-pilots/

Inter-dimensional tourists. They're just here to mess with the Flearthers and download re-runs of Dallas.

 

[Hmm]

Douglas Adams in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy called such beings "teasers":

"Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They cruise around looking for planets that haven't made interstellar contact yet and buzz them, meaning that they find some isolated spot with very few people around, then land right by some poor unsuspecting soul whom no one's going to believe and then strut up and down in front of him wearing silly antennas on their head and making beep beep noises."

 

[AmigodeJesus]

If there is intelligent life on other planets

The Bible says that there is - the unfallen beings (angels, sons of God, etc). Do you want those texts?

 

[Hmm]

That would be great if it isn't too much trouble.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Here is a statement about conditions before the cross.

Deut 32:8
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

Matt 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

and after the cross

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.



or is that eisegesis? -- inserting a preference?

You have free will and can believe what you want - but when you say it is "in the text" it cannot be confined to simply "in a preference for the text" or in an insert -- but "in the text"



I never claim that every reference is just to men - I always argue for context.

In context Genesis 6 mentions no angels or demons but rather family relationships

In context Christ said angels do not have the "function" to form families even in their own species let alone with other species.

That forms the parameters. And so I point to many examples where the sons of God are humans - as they are in John 1:12 - "to as many as received him to them he gave the right to be called the sons of God".

But there are other cases where as in Job 1 and 2 God is in a meeting and having an open debate with the devil - and the sons of God are there - with the devil coming in among them. This is a case where the context is one of elements outside of this world. In the Gospels Adam is called "the son of God" in the sense that he has no Earthly father - he was created directly by God. Whoever/whatever is in that meeting in Job 1 and 2 - they are not from Earth.

No such non-Earth context exists for Genesis 6.

There are some interesting references quoted from the book of Enoch in the New Testament . And the book of Enoch has the story of angels mixing with humans as a strong part of the book.
We also read this interesting section which may also be referring to the book of Enoch as well.

“ Jude 1:6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.7. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.8. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, ....”

Notice the words “likewise also”,and “even as”. This show a similarity in the stories.
In Sodom the men wanted sexual relationship with the angels and the part of the angels similarity or “even as” the story of Sodom show the opposite of angels mixing with strange flesh and leaving their first estate.

In one story we see men wanting strange flesh of angels And the even as part would imply the angels wanting strange flesh of humans.

this section is interesting at least.

and here Is another interesting section in Job. This sons of god reference Seems to be referring to brings who we’re around at the foundation of the earth or before.

“ Job 38:6. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

 

[BobRyan]

There are some interesting references quoted from the book of Enoch in the New Testament .

This is interesting because the book of Enoch was not written by Enoch, is not in the Hebrew OT and was supposedly the work of Enoch who did not live in the NT.

So I prefer the OT books actually in the OT or the NT books actually in the NT.

Still I agree that whoever wrote the book of Enoch all those thousands of years after Enoch lived... did add ideas about angels and humans to what we find in Gen 6 not mentioning it.

And it is instructive that in Matt 22 Jesus says Angels as a species don't even have the function of forming families much less procreation with other species.

We also read this interesting section which may also be referring to the book of Enoch as well.

“ Jude 1:6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.7. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.8. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, ....”

Notice the words “likewise also”,and “even as”. This show a similarity in the stories.

agreed - rebellion seen in Sodom and rebellion seen among the angels that went to war against God and were expelled.

 

[BobRyan]

That would be great if it isn't too much trouble.

well one place you find something like that in the actual Bible is when all those first parents or primary Angels of the different worlds appear before God in a council.

First of all God gave Adam dominion over the Earth
Gen 1: 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Then after the fall of Adam - Satan became what 2 Cor 4:4 calls "the god of this world" - - the one who represents and has dominion on Earth.

Even to the point that in Luke 4 Satan tells Christ this --
Luke 4: 5 And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.


So when the council is held of all the leaders of all the worlds -- Satan comes among them..representing Earth

Job 1
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

There is a reference to "sons of God" that either refers to the lead Angel having responsibility for a given world or refers to the first parent - the equivalent of an "Adam" - on each home-world.

God is asking Satan - what dominion what realm does he come as representing

Satan says he represents Earth and that he knows everything about it.

Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”

So then God selects one 1 human - Job to question Satan about in a claim that even though Satan claims Earth as his - yet Job is a great example of someone on Earth that has chosen to be the servant of God - -not of Satan

Job 1
8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

There is the challenge - God says Job turns from the kingdom of evil and chooses to be the servant of God even though Satan claims Earth as his dominion.

Job
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.” 12 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

Douglas Adams in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy called such beings "teasers":

"Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They cruise around looking for planets that haven't made interstellar contact yet and buzz them,

There is a good science fiction if ever there was one...

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis 6 does not mention anything about fallen angels. No the stories of cross-species hybrid half-human beings. Let's be serious.

I'll not argue with one who is so daft when it comes to the actual Genesis 6 Scripture as written.

Good point - anyone injecting cross-species human angel hybrid fictions into Gen 6 is probably not paying attention to detail.

Matt 22 informs us that Christ does not support such "stories" as He declares that angels as a species do not even have the function of forming family units within their own species - let alone across species.

It just does not get any easier than that.

 

[BobRyan]

Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
• Genesis 6:1-2

A great example of a text that does not reference angels at all.

===========================
Here is a statement about conditions before the cross. regarding the "sons of God" on Earth.

Deut 32:8
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

Matt 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.

John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

and after the cross

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

 

[BobRyan]

I do not see it as a threat to Christianity in the way in which the question is asked, but it is a threat in the sense that it is the machinations of devils that seeks to undermine the Biblical history.

good point.

Evolutionism tries to undermine the origins doctrine in the Bible which gets at the fall of man and the root for the entire plan of salvation.

Evolution then extends itself into ufo-narratives so that the Gospel is also irrelevant as a truth accepted outside of Earth - where then you could have good or bad actors on other planets that may or may not be nice to people on Earth etc. And since we already know that fallen angels are indeed bad actors that come to us from some location not-of-this-earth they have a pretty good way to spin their stories however they wish to play it.

When they talk about "wrecks" - off-world vehicles that have fallen into our hands due to some mishap etc -- that is not at all in line with the Gospel. In the Gospel only this world is fallen - and one of the more powerful angels in the universe declares it his home-base (see Luke 4 and 2 Cor 4:4), so beings from other sinless worlds are not coming here to crash their SUV's into our planet and leave the wreckage for us to study.

I don't think fallen angels have any limit as to the the sorts of things they can make up for us to then "observe" as if their fake-invasion or fake-storytellers were anything other than what they want us to believe them to be.

When Eve goes to the forbidden tree to hear Satan's side of the story - he has almost unlimited options as to the sorts of stories he is allowed to tell her. After all God did tell her not to go there.

 

[AmigodeJesus]

good point. ...After all God did tell her not to go there.

True, as she became socially distant from her husband by allowing the things of earth to distract her, and Adam allowed it to happen, as he should have kept watch over His flock/field, but while men slept.

 

[AmigodeJesus]

That would be great if it isn't too much trouble.

Start with the '99' that the Son left in Matthew 18 & Luke 15, which needed no repentance and who went not astray as this world did, to come and find the one lost, and to return home, having found it, and rejoicing, as also Revelation 12:12 reveals, in Heaven with neighbours and friends in that far country, the end of Heaven (courtesy of Isaiah 13:5). In the Father's house (as the universe is spread out like a tent, courtesy of Isaiah 40:22) are many mansions/worlds therein to be inhabited as this world (courtesy of John 14:1-4; Isaiah 45:18; Hebrews 1:2, 11:3). There are other such texts, but carefully and prayerfully read these first.