Does the recently confirmed existence of UfO's pose a threat to Christianity?

[nolidad]

What I find interesting is that in Rev 16 the 6th plague includes the idea of demons under some form of disguise going out to the governments of all the earth and calling them to a place of battle. Then in Rev 19 you see Christ at the second coming, at the head of an army - and all the armies of Earth gathered together to oppose Him.

Now what do you suppose those governments will be told (are being told?) about "what's coming"?

Wasn't told. Its above my pay grade! LOL

 

[nolidad]

Wow someone who has used intelligence on the question of UFOs.

There are two positions re UFOs.
1/ they are so advanced hey make us look primative. There technology is totally undetectable by ours, we have noway of locating them and it follows we do not know if they are here.

2/ there technology is detectable b us and we can see them coming for light years away, there spaceships in the old system can be sen and tasted at all times.

Take your pick both options men there are no UFO in our solar system.

It therefore follows that UFOs are demonic as they are not from other suns.

I tend to agree.

God did not reveal to us whether or not he inhabited (or even put habitable ) planets outside of our solar system! I tend to doubt it for Genesis says God made the stars, moon and sun for signs and seasons for us on earth!

 

[Tolworth John]

I tend to agree.

God did not reveal to us whether or not he inhabited (or even put habitable ) planets outside of our solar system! I tend to doubt it for Genesis says God made the stars, moon and sun for signs and seasons for us on earth!

Two useful sources of information.
Atomic rocket web site, all about the practical engineering for space flight. It is some at sci fi writors.
And Creation.com they have a series of articles on UFOs written by a Christian UFO investigator.

 

[BobRyan]

I know a few Christians who believe UFOs are demonic and I don't doubt that potential exists . Bottom line, we don't know what it is. I also think some of this activity is our own, I believe we have capabilities beyond what most of us commoners have access to knowing about. That said the end times will be very interesting to say the least.

If you look at the videos you will see that what is called "UFO" is slightly evasive but certainly nothing like "hiding" since it is out there in broad daylight and "for days" is hanging out there where it can be tracked by the Navy. Not much of a "secret" program if they are trying to keep some huge leap in technology a secret from the Navy.

It behaves more like "fishing lure" than top secret program.

 

[BobRyan]

I tend to agree.

God did not reveal to us whether or not he inhabited (or even put habitable ) planets outside of our solar system! I tend to doubt it for Genesis says God made the stars, moon and sun for signs and seasons for us on earth!

Genesis says that God is the creator of the stars - but it says on day 4 the number lights made was "2".

In Heb 11 we see that God made the "worlds".
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible

All of which would have to be sinless and unfallen -

But the UFO narrative is about evolution, competition, adversary friend-vs-foe... and we know who enjoys telling that sort of story. The adversary first told Eve she could advance - evolve upward "Become like god" if she took his advice.

 

[Lost4words]

I keep an open mind about it myself.

Maybe God has created a lot more than what we know about! Who knows.

Trust in Jesus. Thats the best thing to do.

 

[BobRyan]

I keep an open mind about it myself.

Maybe God has created a lot more than what we know about! Who knows.

Trust in Jesus. Thats the best thing to do.

I believe God did make other life - and the existence of various kinds of angels proves it. But also He made "the worlds" Heb 11:3 -- however as we see in the case of Genesis 1 and 2 - he makes worlds sinless, perfect, paradise ... no sin no suffering no evil.

This one world however - chose sin after some unknown period of time - Adam and Eve chose sin. The other worlds are still sinless. Only we have the gospel , Christ, forgiveness, and so Rev 12 tells us that in Satan's war with God - Satan is cast down to this one.. and only this one ... world

 

[The Liturgist]

According to the interesting Russian Orthodox priest and monastic Fr. Seraphim Rose, in his book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future, which details the struggle between Christianity and New Age religions as well as evangelists of Buddhism, Hinduism and other Oriental religions from a very traditional Russian Orthodox perspective, the belief in UFOs, specifically the idea that these are spacecraft operated by intelligent aliens who we should try to make contact with (when in his opinion, and mine, by the way, these were at most demonic deceptions, and were otherwise military test flights, sensor misreads or optical illusions) is very dangerous to Christianity.

Specifically his concern involved the formation of UFO cults. And I think he was proven right by the tragic suicide of the Heaven’s Gate cult in the mid 1990s and certain other cults. Sadly his book is not well known outside of the Eastern Orthodox community; I only came across it because my Eastern Orthodox friend mentioned it to me*

I think as Christians what we need to do is educate our fellow Christians on science, and if we are clergy, without wasting time in our sermons on UFOs, letting it be known not from the pulpit but in social settings, that the scientific consensus is that it is highly unlikely we are being visited by beings from another star system due to the vast differences and the extreme difficulty of interstellar travel, and more likely explanations involve experimental aircraft, radar malfunction, optical illusions, and natural phenomena like ball lightning.

I had an encounter with ball lightning when I was a young boy and it was spooky. If it hadnt been for my grandfather, who was a scientist, identifying what I saw as ball lightning, and showing me some of the bizarre manifestations of it, I would probably think I had been visited by UFOs.

*since then I learned to read a lot of books from Eastern Christianity; I try to balance my diet of recently written books on Christianity so a fourth come from traditional magisterial Protestants, a third come from Roman Catholics, a third come from the Eastern Christians, whether EO, OO, Church of the East, or Eastern Catholic / Unia, and the remaining 8% come from the ancient future movement and liturgical movements within Protestantism; this does not count books from heretics I read so as to follow their activities

 

[The Liturgist]

Two useful sources of information.
Atomic rocket web site, all about the practical engineering for space flight. It is some at sci fi writors.
And Creation.com they have a series of articles on UFOs written by a Christian UFO investigator.

Atomic Rockets is a good site but it should be noted that even with the fastest designs you see there, travel to the earthlike planets known to us in the milky way is not possible in a human lifespan. Atomic rockets would make travel to the moon, Mars and the outer planets from the ISS much easier, however. Its a pity development on NERVA was stopped.

 

[BobRyan]

I think as Christians what we need to do is educate our fellow Christians on science, and if we are clergy, without wasting time in our sermons on UFOs, letting it be known not from the pulpit but in social settings, that the scientific consensus is that it is highly unlikely we are being visited by beings from another star system due to the vast differences and the extreme difficulty of interstellar travel, and more likely explanations involve experimental aircraft, radar malfunction, optical illusions, and natural phenomena like ball lightning.

#1 - I agree with your post - thanks for your contribution.
#2. - be careful about "distances too far for aliens" -- it is self-defeating. We know that angels are aliens, created beings not from Earth. And we are confident they cross those distances even more quickly than scientists would even dare to imagine. So we need to avoid the argument that they could not have such technology or ability in some way that we don't have knowledge about.

 

[Tolworth John]

Atomic Rockets is a good site but it should be noted that even with the fastest designs you see there, travel to the earthlike planets known to us in the milky way is not possible in a human lifespan. Atomic rockets would make travel to the moon, Mars and the outer planets from the ISS much easier, however. Its a pity development on NERVA was stopped.

That is a big argument against UFO's being real aliens.

 

[Albion]

#2. - be careful about "distances too far for aliens" -- it is self-defeating. We know that angels are aliens, created beings not from Earth. And we are confident they cross those distances even more quickly than scientists would even dare to imagine.

In spaceships or any kind of conveyance?

In none of the Scriptures that deal with an archangel appearing to men on Earth is such a thing indicated (nor would it make sense).

 

[BobRyan]

In spaceships or any kind of conveyance?

In none of the Scriptures that deal with an archangel appearing to men on Earth is such a thing indicated (nor would it make sense).

I don't know how they do it - but I doubt it is the the saucers people claim.

My point is that if you back up to the more general argument "nothing can get here from there because it is too far" then we make a mistake since we have been claiming that finite created beings do that very thing all the time as Christians when we talk about Angels.

Exactly how they do it - I have no clue.

 

[BobRyan]

Atomic Rockets is a good site but it should be noted that even with the fastest designs you see there, travel to the earthlike planets known to us in the milky way is not possible in a human lifespan. Atomic rockets would make travel to the moon, Mars and the outer planets from the ISS much easier, however. Its a pity development on NERVA was stopped.

Agreed. Anything that takes more than 15 or 20 minutes is not what Angels are using and nothing at those web sites gets you across the galaxy or across the universe in those sorts of time frames. Even 15 or 20 days or 20 weeks is wayyy outside of those website target range.

So if the time range is between 15 minutes and 15 weeks... there is no technology that humans know of that can do that. So Angels are doing something beyond our limited understanding of technology/universe/space-time/science..

(Of course there is always Salvatore Pais when it comes to those Tic Tacs
US10144532B2 - Craft using an inertial mass reduction device - Google Patents

The Secretive Inventor Of The Navy's Bizarre 'UFO Patents' Finally Talks
)

 

[Albion]

I don't know how they do it - but I doubt is the the saucers people claim.

People are claiming that it's ANGELS who are travelling to Earth in UFOs??

My point is that if you back up to the more general argument "nothing can get here from there because it is too far" then we make a mistake since we have been claiming that finite created beings do that very thing all the time as Christians when we talk about Angels.

And my point is that angels don't travel in rocket ships, etc.

They, being spirits, quite obviously have no need of that sort of thing.

 

[The Liturgist]

Agreed. Anything that takes more than 15 or 20 minutes is not what Angels are using and nothing at those web sites gets you across the galaxy or across the universe in those sorts of time frames. Even 15 or 20 days or 20 weeks is wayyy outside of those website target range.

So if the time range is between 15 minutes and 15 weeks... there is no technology that humans know of that can do that. So Angels are doing something beyond our limited understanding of technology/universe/space-time/science..

(Of course there is always Salvatore Pais when it comes to those Tic Tacs
US10144532B2 - Craft using an inertial mass reduction device - Google Patents

The Secretive Inventor Of The Navy's Bizarre 'UFO Patents' Finally Talks
)

People are claiming that it's ANGELS who are travelling to Earth in UFOs??


And my point is that angels don't travel in rocket ships, etc.

They, being spirits, quite obviously have no need of that sort of thing.

Indeed so Albion. If I might paraphrase Captain Kirk in Star Trek V, “What do angels need with a starship?”

 

[The Liturgist]

In spaceships or any kind of conveyance?

In none of the Scriptures that deal with an archangel appearing to men on Earth is such a thing indicated (nor would it make sense).

There is only one possible spacecraft in scripture, the Chariot of Fire on which Elijah ascended into Heaven, but even this I think we should not in the interests of piety imagine as being, for example, a rocket (except in poetic usage perhaps, for example, in prayers and hymns sung for the safety of astronauts).

Jewish mystics, before Christ, contemplated the spinning firery wheels of this chariot in a manner the scholar Eric Jobe likened to the later contemplative prayer we associate, for example, with Christian monasticism.

 

[BobRyan]

There is only one possible spacecraft in scripture, the Chariot of Fire on which Elijah ascended into Heaven .

And those flying wheels in Ezekiel 1 those glowing flying wheels like glowing metal... not sure what all that is.

 

[The Liturgist]

And those flying wheels in Ezekiel 1 those glowing flying wheels like glowing metal... not sure what all that is.

Those wheels were thought to be the wheels of Elijah’s chariot. But there is nothing to indicate they are spacecraft.

 

[BobRyan]

People are claiming that it's ANGELS who are travelling to Earth in UFOs?? .

No ...
1.people are claiming they see UFOs and suspect that they are not from Earth.
2.Other people claim that they have to be from Earth since nothing from very far-away can get here.

I am saying we need to be careful about some of those generalized statements because we don't want to undercut our own claim that Angels actually "do get here from far away" and they can do it in much less than 15 months, or 15 weeks, or 15 days. However they do it. I don't think they are using UFOs to do it -- but on the other hand... I don't know exactly how they do it in the first place.