How to choose between creation and evolution.

[OldWiseGuy]

Maybe I am just not a very critical thinker, so you best explain: if I know nothing of the Bible, what critical thinking would allow me to conclude creation just by studying anatomy?

If you were on the fence about it you would probably defer to the odds/chances of one or the other occurring. You might think about "irreducible complexity" as well.

 

[driewerf]

One doesn't. One arrives at catastrophism by studying the Bible.

The bible is a catastrophe?

 

[Speedwell]

If you were on the fence about it you would probably defer to the odds/chances of one or the other occurring.

That wouldn't help. One choice of that "one or the other" refers to a story in an ancient book--which by the terms of your question I don't know about. How will critical thinking and a study of anatomy lead me to it?

You might think about "irreducible complexity" as well.

Why?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You could use that math to calculate the odds of either position. You could also muse on the process of evolution blithely proceeding, unaffected by the catastrophes and upheavals that have occurred all along the evolutionary timeline.

 

[Speedwell]

You could use that math to calculate the odds of either position.

Again, you're going to have to help me out here. One position is an ancient Hebrew creation story being literally true, and the other is all possible alternative explanations. How to calculate the odds of either position is beyond me.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Again, you're going to have to help me out here. One position is an ancient Hebrew creation story being literally true, and the other is all possible alternative explanations. How to calculate the odds of either position is beyond me.

I sympathize. The odds of evolution occurring are incalculable. Creation however is easily calculable: Chances: 100 percent.

 

[Speedwell]

I sympathize. The odds of evolution occurring are incalculable.

You still haven't shown us the math. Does "incalculable" just mean that you are unable to calculate it? Here's a link that might help.
Stochastic process - Wikipedia.

Creation however is easily calculable: Chances: 100 percent.

That an ancient Hebrew creation story is literal history is a matter of faith, not mathematical calculation.

 

[Speedwell]

You could use that math to calculate the odds of either position. You could also muse on the process of evolution blithely proceeding, unaffected by the catastrophes and upheavals that have occurred all along the evolutionary timeline.

Who says that the process of evolution was unaffected? The dinosaurs might argue tht point with you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Who says that the process of evolution was unaffected? The dinosaurs might argue tht point with you.

That was my point.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That an ancient Hebrew creation story is literal history is a matter of faith, not mathematical calculation.

I don't think the stuff that everything is made of evolved.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't think the stuff that everything is made of evolved.

So? We're talking about living creatures and what can be concluded from a study of their anatomy.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So? We're talking about living creatures and what can be concluded from a study of their anatomy.

Shouldn't we bring the building blocks into the discussion?

 

[Speedwell]

Shouldn't we bring the building blocks into the discussion?

Why? They're the same building blocks in either case.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why? They're the same building blocks in either case.

Their origin might be as important as the finished product.

 

[Speedwell]

Their origin might be as important as the finished product.

The "building blocks" are not the product of biological evolution. Whether they were created or not is a separate question.

And I notice that it is not the same as your original question, which asked whether we could decide between creation (presumably according to your interpretation of Genesis) or evolution by studying anatomy.

 

[Kylie]

Maybe I am just not a very critical thinker, so you best explain: if I know nothing of the Bible, what critical thinking would allow me to conclude creation just by studying anatomy?

Great question!

If all knowledge of the world was lost - all books destroyed, all understanding of how the world works, all of it, all forgotten and gone forever - then sooner or later someone would figure out that e=mc^2 again, and all the other laws of nature.

But would anyone get back the story of Noah and the flood?

 

[SelfSim]

Great question!

If all knowledge of the world was lost - all books destroyed, all understanding of how the world works, all of it, all forgotten and gone forever - then sooner or later someone would figure out that e=mc^2 again, and all the other laws of nature.

But would anyone get back the story of Noah and the flood?

Hmm .. if all knowledge is lost, then can any hypothetical be conceived from that point onwards(?)
Interesting ..

 

[AV1611VET]

But would anyone get back the story of Noah and the flood?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

 

[Kylie]

Hmm .. if all knowledge is lost, then can any hypothetical be conceived from that point onwards(?)
Interesting ..

But what are the chances that we'd get the Bible back?

I mean, relativity, gravity, electromagnetism, all that can be rediscovered, because they are ingrained in the very fabric of reality and need only be rediscovered. But how could we possibly reconstruct the Bible?

 

[Kylie]

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But if the Bible has been lost, then so has that passage.