Convince me of Continuationism.

Radagast

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Ephesians 4:7-12 says,

7 “But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:”​
That passage is about Jesus giving gifts to the Church.

That's a different kind of gift from the "spiritual gifts" in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11.

In the same way, being a pastor and teacher is not a "spiritual gift" in the sense of 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. That is why some pastors and teachers are Cessationists.
 
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Albion

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11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:”

Nobody can just be a teacher, or an apostle on their own power. God has to gift that ability to them. So it's a gift.

You may call it a gift (or an "assignment," or "responsibility"??) but it still is not a gift in the sense that the miraculous and unnatural abilities suddenly being acquired by people thanks to the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" were.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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It's not the skepticism that is the issue, it is the MANNER it which it is continually done. I have no doubt there are some sincere skeptics out there, but they don't seem to be the ones asking questions. What I have seen - every single time - from those actually asking for "proof" is that they aren't looking for proof, they are trying to prove their own point and will immediately put down any proof that is given without a second thought. Every. Single. Time. Which is my point. That is not Christ-like behavior in the least.

Additionally, if TV is one's main source of truth for anything - especially Biblical ideas and principles - then they are not starting from an very solid foundation.

I am looking for a sincere explanation WITH SCRIPTURE to not only give a rebuttal to the points I made in the Cessationist thread link I provided in the OP, but I am looking for sound apologetics WITH SCRIPTURE to defend Continuationism. Things like “mirror” in 1 Corinthians 13 appear to fit the Cessationist view best. If you or someone else can come up with a really good spiritual explanation on the meaning of the “mirror” I am all ears. I have watched a few Continuationist vs. Cessationist debates on YouTube. It just seems that the Cessationist view makes the most sense in light of Scripture. But I could be wrong. Hence, why I am asking folks to convince me of their position. Lay forth your best case with Scripture.

I used to believe that water baptism was for today, but I believe Spirit baptism has replaced water baptism. I believe the one baptism for today is the one mentioned in Ephesians 4:5. I believe things have changed or progressed. So I am willing to change my view if there is Scriptural support for that position.
 
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Guojing

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The three greatest prophets and miracle workers in the Bible are Moses, Elijah, and Jesus. We see that the miracles that they performed were a way to authenticate them as a messenger from GOD and the Word of God that they provided (that would be immortalized into Scripture). We notice that after each of these prophets, there was a time of silence where no miracles were done. Just like with the prophets Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, miracles authenticated the apostles' message as from God. "And they (apostles) went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs (tongues, prophecies, healing, etc.) following. Amen."

So the purpose of the gifts was to confirm that the Word was indeed from God. No such gifts are needed today to confirm the Bible as being true or from God. Most today know that the Holy Bible is “the book” above all books, and it is God's Holy Word. There are many evidences today that back up the Bible.

I believe the gospel also progressed, as well. If you read the beginning of Mark 1, it references the words “the beginning of the gospel” and talks about John the Baptist being a forerunner for the coming of the Lord, etc.; Surely we are not still forerunning the 1st coming of Jesus' ministry still with John the Baptist as a part of the gospel. Jesus has already came, died on the cross, and was risen, and He went up to Heaven to sit down at the right hand of the Father. Before the cross: The disciples did not preach the ultimate fruition of the gospel (Which is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that says that we are to believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation). So the gospel has evolved and progressed since it's original beginnings.

So you are saying that we are now in the gospel of the grace of God, which was committed to paul For us gentiles.

The gospel of the kingdom is not for us correct? It was for Israel
 
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Radagast

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I am looking for a sincere explanation WITH SCRIPTURE to not only give a rebuttal to the points I made in the Cessationist thread link I provided in the OP, but I am looking for sound apologetics WITH SCRIPTURE to defend Continuationism.

It's also the case that many Continuationists seem to be "soft Continuationists" (with no more infallible prophecy and no more Acts of the Apostles 2:6-11). Soft Continuationism makes some specific theological claims that I think are not Biblical.

On the other hand, if you believe in continuing infallible prophecy, you run into the problem of why the writings of infallible prophets don't get added to Scripture.
 
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So you are saying that we are now in the gospel of the grace of God, which was committed to paul For us gentiles.

The gospel of the kingdom is not for us correct? It was for Israel

I am not sure you understood what I am talking about.

1 “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.” (Mark 1:1-5).​

Again, we can see the beginning of the GOSPEL included a description of John the baptist being a forerunner for the coming of Jesus. This is still not happening today. So the gospel has progressed or evolved. The ultimate fruition of the GOSPEL (like an apple seed being planted to evolve into an apple tree), or the heart of the GOSPEL is this:

1 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
This is the central point of the GOSPEL or the good news.
We are not preaching the beginning of the gospel of John the Baptist forerunning the coming of the Lord alone, and leaving the story end there involving the gospel.
 
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On the other hand, if you believe in continuing infallible prophecy, you run into the problem of why the writings of infallible prophets don't get added to Scripture.

Right. This to me is a big point for Cessationism. If visions and prophecies are still happening, then we need to add them to the back of the Bible as official Scripture. But Revelation says we are not to add any words to the prophecy of that book. Revelation is the ending book of the Bible, and it concludes the Bible. So we cannot add any new prophetic words to that book or the end of the Bible.
 
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Guojing

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I am not sure you understood what I am talking about.

1 “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.” (Mark 1:1-5).​

Again, we can see the beginning of the GOSPEL included a description of John the baptist being a forerunner for the coming of Jesus. This is still not happening today. So the gospel has progressed or evolved. The ultimate fruition of the GOSPEL (like an apple seed being planted to evolve into an apple tree), or the heart of the GOSPEL is this:

1 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
This is the central point of the GOSPEL or the good news.
We are not preaching the beginning of the gospel of John the Baptist forerunning the coming of the Lord alone, and leaving the story end there involving the gospel.

Let me rephrase, is the good news now about Jesus coming as our promised king, to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth?
 
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Continuationists also seem to be more accepting of things I know are clearly false or unbiblical like the Divine Revelation of Hell by Mary K. Baxter, etc.; They appear to accept any new vision or revelation or book with open arms instead of scrutinizing it with Scripture. Granted, this does not mean the Continuationist view is entirely wrong, though. I leave some room for mystery so as not to condemn myself just in case I am wrong.
 
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Let me rephrase, is the good news now about Jesus coming as our promised king, to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth?

I already told you the good news. The good news is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
 
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Let me rephrase, is the good news now about Jesus coming as our promised king, to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth?

If you are trying to make a different case for the gospel, then by all means, bring forth Scripture to make that case instead of asking questions.
 
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topher694

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Well, when did you last raise somebody from the dead (Acts of the Apostles 9:40)?

When did you last speak in a foreign language that you had not learned (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11)?

When did you last accurately predict a major world event (Acts of the Apostles 11:27-28)?
I've done all three. Does that make a difference to you? Didn't think so.
 
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Albion

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Let me rephrase, is the good news now about Jesus coming as our promised king, to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth?
As I am following along with these posts, it looks like "Bible Highlighter" couldn't have made the answer to your question any clearer than he did by highlighting the answer in red, straight from Scripture. :)
 
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You may call it a gift (or an "assignment," or "responsibility"??) but it still is not a gift in the sense that the miraculous and unnatural abilities suddenly being acquired by people thanks to the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" were.

I did not call it a gift. Scripture calls it a gift. Just go back and read the passage again.
 
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Radagast

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So we cannot add any new prophetic words to that book or the end of the Bible.

Which is why most modern Continuationists say that infallible NT prophecy has ceased, but fallible NT prophecy has continued.

Personally, I see no evidence in the NT of a "gift of fallible prophecy." It also seems like a pretty useless gift. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 indicates that fallible "prophets" should be put to death.

Continuationists also seem to be more accepting of things I know are clearly false or unbiblical

That fits in with this "doctrine of fallible prophecy." It allows "prophets" to be wrong without any real accountability.
 
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topher694

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Which is why most modern Continuationists say that infallible NT prophecy has ceased, but fallible NT prophecy has continued.

Personally, I see no evidence in the NT of a "gift of fallible prophecy." It also seems like a pretty useless gift. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 indicates that fallible "prophets" should be put to death.



That fits in with this "doctrine of fallible prophecy." It allows "prophets" to be wrong without any real accountability.
Incorrect/incomplete/narrow understanding of prophecy overall and Deut 18:20-22
 
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topher694

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In other words, you disagree, but have no Biblical argument to back up your opinion.
Also incorrect. I wrote a long post on here in the sign gifts section breaking this very thing down. It was designed to only be part 1 of a series explaining prophecy and full of Biblical arguments. You know what? Hardly anyone looks at that. You know why? Most people don't care to learn, they only care about being right.
 
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Albion

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I did not call it a gift. Scripture calls it a gift. Just go back and read the passage again.

That isn't the issue. The Magi brought gifts to the stable where the baby Jesus lay. Are we to consider gold and incense to be "gifts of the Holy Spirit" also?

No. While the word itself can be used in several different ways, this doesn't mean that those gifts which are listed in Scripture as the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" AND WHICH ARE OF A QUITE DIFFERENT CHARACTER from placing a person in the role of teacher or missionary or church administrator are somehow the same.
 
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