The Lake Of Fire

[Shrewd Manager]

I understand why you and Finelinen have the Universalist belief. There are many people who have lost loved ones who were not saved and to now think of where they is more than the mind and heart can accept. So what do you do??? You agree with a theology, COMPLETLY ALIEN to the Word of God and embrace it because it give you comfort over your loss. I get it, I really do.

Majorly WRONG!!

We embrace universalism because it is true, beautiful, holy, perfect, gracious, merciful, good and righteous. We love it because it gives God the glory and accords with scripture and revelation.

Because the way you are presenting YOUR opinion is calling GOD A LIAR!!

WRONG!! again lol.

I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
(Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Phi 2:10)

The Bible is all about salvation. EVERY LAST SHEEP.

To say that any are irretrievably lost is to majorly blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. (Mt 22:29)

It's easy to kill and destroy, that's just what the devil and fallen man do all day long.

But the great glory consists in SALVATION. And GOD IS SALVATION, so look ye to Him all the ends of the earth.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:28)

 

[Major1]

Majorly WRONG!!

We embrace universalism because it is true, beautiful, holy, perfect, gracious, merciful, good and righteous. We love it because it gives God the glory and accords with scripture and revelation.



WRONG!! again lol.

I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
(Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Phi 2:10)

The Bible is all about salvation. EVERY LAST SHEEP.

To say that any are irretrievably lost is to majorly blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. (Mt 22:29)

It's easy to kill and destroy, that's just what the devil and fallen man do all day long.

But the great glory consists in SALVATION. And GOD IS SALVATION, so look ye to Him all the ends of the earth.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:28)

And you are welcome to do just that. What YOU can not do is to claim that it is Biblical in any way whatsoever.

Universalism is therefore an unbiblical belief. Universalists are generally more likely to believe or promote the idea that all religions can “coexist” or that all religions can unite as one. However, the scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ alone is the only way by which mankind can be saved.

 

[FineLinen]

Universalism is therefore an unbiblical belief. Universalists are generally more likely to believe or promote the idea that all religions can “coexist” or that all religions can unite as one. However, the scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ alone is the only way by which mankind can be saved.

Do not be silly!

The Arrogance Of Religion

Picking up my copy of Karl Barth's Commentary on Romans, as I often do, I just opened it up at random, and began to read when the phrase, "the arrogance of religion" caught my attention. I believe, from my recollection of that moment, Barth repeated himself in a short context. Whatever one might think of the man who was considered the greatest theologian of the twentieth century, one would have to admit from even a cursory reading of Barth, that he, in the strongest language, exposed the difference between God and what religion presumes to know and declare of Him. According to Barth, there is between the two a vast and deep chasm.

Sometimes the arrogance of religion is just plain out-in-the-open apparent.

J. B. Phillips took that arrogance to task noting that God doesn't fit in our conceptual box(es), declaring appropriately, that our God (the God according to us) is too small. Yes, I'm generalizing when I say, "our" and "us," because the indictment is applicable to all in some measure or another since we all have an inclination toward the kind of presumption, as the story goes, of a child telling her teacher that she was drawing a picture of God. "But, no one knows what God looks like," explained the teacher.

Nonplused at that claim, the child said, "well they will when I'm through." Yep, that sums up the arrogance of religion.

-John Gavazzoni-

 

[FineLinen]

Universalism is therefore an unbiblical belief. Universalists are generally more likely to believe or promote the idea that all religions can “coexist” or that all religions can unite as one. However, the scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ alone is the only way by which mankind can be saved.

7 Myths About Universalism

 

[Shrewd Manager]

"the arrogance of religion"

An attitude for which Jesus displays a very low tolerance.

and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. (Mt 3:9)

 

[Der Alte]

Majorly WRONG!!
We embrace universalism because it is true, beautiful, holy, perfect, gracious, merciful, good and righteous. We love it because it gives God the glory and accords with scripture and revelation.
WRONG!! again lol.
I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
(Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Phi 2:10)...

Super size font does not make something true.
Scripture does NOT say that all mankind will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
Exomolgeo occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back).”

Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”​

It never means whole-heartedly etc.
…..Scripture says that every knee will bow but only believers will do so freely, willingly in love and faith, the others will be conquered enemies.
How will the enemies of Jesus feel?

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, * Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[* "That day" -the day of judgement.]​

The word of God says every knee will bow. It must be important because it is repeated 3 times.

1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;​

But the " the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic, idolaters, liars," Rev 21:8, etc. who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees, i.e. Jesus’ footstool, and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord.
This is another important point it is recorded 8 times in scripture. The followers of UR ignore these verses.

1. Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
3. Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
4. Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
5. Acts of the apostles 2:34-35
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool..
6. Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
7. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;.
8. Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.​

What does “make your enemies your footstool mean?” Joshua, the OT type of Jesus, shows us in Josh. 10.

Joshua 10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings [who fought against Israel] are found hid in a cave at Makkedah….
Joshua 10:22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.
Joshua 10:23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.
Joshua 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.
…
Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.​

The enemies of Joshua, the first Jesus, were made Joshua’s footstool then destroyed. They did not become faithful, obedient members of his army.

 

[Major1]

7 Myths About Universalism

The truth therefore is exactly what you have stated...…….

Finelinen has stated correctly that...…..
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

 

[Major1]

An attitude for which Jesus displays a very low tolerance.

and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham. (Mt 3:9)

I agree.

Matthew 7:21-23 ...........
"Not every one that saith unto me, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Major1]

Do not be silly!

The Arrogance Of Religion

Picking up my copy of Karl Barth's Commentary on Romans, as I often do, I just opened it up at random, and began to read when the phrase, "the arrogance of religion" caught my attention. I believe, from my recollection of that moment, Barth repeated himself in a short context. Whatever one might think of the man who was considered the greatest theologian of the twentieth century, one would have to admit from even a cursory reading of Barth, that he, in the strongest language, exposed the difference between God and what religion presumes to know and declare of Him. According to Barth, there is between the two a vast and deep chasm.

Sometimes the arrogance of religion is just plain out-in-the-open apparent.

J. B. Phillips took that arrogance to task noting that God doesn't fit in our conceptual box(es), declaring appropriately, that our God (the God according to us) is too small. Yes, I'm generalizing when I say, "our" and "us," because the indictment is applicable to all in some measure or another since we all have an inclination toward the kind of presumption, as the story goes, of a child telling her teacher that she was drawing a picture of God. "But, no one knows what God looks like," explained the teacher.

Nonplused at that claim, the child said, "well they will when I'm through." Yep, that sums up the arrogance of religion.

-John Gavazzoni-

Silly????

Silly is the action of making up your own religion. What you are doing is promoting.....
"FESTIVUS"!!!

You have latched onto an opinion which fits your feelings and at the expence of the Word of God have go with it.

Remember what we are discussing.....and is it Biblical.

IF IT IS NOT FOUND IN THE BIBLE THEN IT CAN ONLY COME FROM YOUR MIND.

That being the case...…….
Finelinen has stated correctly that...…..
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

 

[Major1]

Majorly WRONG!!

We embrace universalism because it is true, beautiful, holy, perfect, gracious, merciful, good and righteous. We love it because it gives God the glory and accords with scripture and revelation.



WRONG!! again lol.

I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
(Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Phi 2:10)

The Bible is all about salvation. EVERY LAST SHEEP.

To say that any are irretrievably lost is to majorly blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. (Mt 22:29)

It's easy to kill and destroy, that's just what the devil and fallen man do all day long.

But the great glory consists in SALVATION. And GOD IS SALVATION, so look ye to Him all the ends of the earth.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:28)

Do you think that YELLING replaces the truth????????

Yes.....Jesus Christ is salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23 tells us the truth...…..
"Not every one that saith unto me, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

It is so very sad to me to observe such intelligent people go out of their way to purposefully distort and twist the preciouses Scriptures of God to make them fit a false teaching.

My dear "Linnen" man. After reading several Bible commentators at …….
Romans 14:11 - For it is written,... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary
Their consensenus is exactly what I already knew and understood. But you seem to enjoy the company of others so I used it for YOU.

Therefore......
"Every knee shall bow to me - To bow the knee” is an act expressing homage, submission, or adoration. It means that every person shall acknowledge him as God, and admit his right to universal dominion. The passage in Isaiah refers particularly to the homage which “his own people” should render to him; or rather, it means that all who are saved shall acknowledge “him” as their God and Saviour.

The original reference was not to “all men,” but only to those who should be saved; Isaiah 45:17, Isaiah 45:21-22, Isaiah 45:24. In this sense the apostle uses it; not as denoting that “all men” should confess to God, but that all “Christians,” whether Jewish or Gentile converts, should alike give account to Him.

“They” should all bow before their common God, and acknowledge “his” dominion over them. The passage originally did not refer particularly to the day of judgment, but expressed the truth that all believers should acknowledge his dominion. It is as applicable, however, to the judgment, as to any other act of homage which his people will render.

Remember Finelinen, you have already stated correctly that...…..
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

 

[Major1]

There is nowhere our God expresses He operates in a giant heavenly gambling casino of chance: first, 2nd, third, forth ad nauseum.

“Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will…”

Correct. God operates salvation on the doctrine of "Predestination".

Just in case you are not aware, Predestination, in Christianity, the doctrine that God has eternally chosen those whom he intends to save. In modern usage, predestination is distinct from both determinism and fatalism and is subject to the free decision of the human moral will; but the doctrine also teaches that salvation is due entirely to the eternal decree of God.

 

[Major1]

Aquaint yourself with "limited".

"You have limited the Holy One of Israel."

No chance, NONE!

"I will have nothing to do with a God who cares only occasionally. I need a God who is with us always, everywhere, in the deepest depths as well as the highest heights. It is when things go wrong, when good things do not happen, when our prayers seem to have been lost, that God is most present. We do not need the sheltering wings when things go smoothly. We are closest to God in the darkness, stumbling along blindly." -Madeleine L'Engle-

You know, with all of your continued arguing and quoting of opinions and misquoting of Scriptures and deceptive comments you make, you are proving that "Der alte" and the old Major are living rent free right there in the space between your ears.

It all seems useless to me in the light of what you have already said and we have agreed with you in that...….
you have already stated correctly that...…..
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!!

FINELINEN SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

Now really brother, what is your point?

 

[Major1]

The usual litany of out-of-context bits and pieces of disparate scripture cobbled together trying to make scripture say what it does not say.

As always, you are correct. But if that was not done, what would he be able to say???

 

[Major1]

Dear Lord Jesus: surely you jest. Surely the individual sinner coming to be your disciple chooses to follow you?

"You did NOT choose Me, I chose..."

Dear St Paul: Are you kidding us?

"The whole of created life were made prisoners of futility (frustration), NOT willingly, but by reason of HIM who made it so."

John 3:16.....
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Salvation is a freewill choice when God calls a sinner. The sinner hears the call and then must choose if he will accept or reject it.

God is righteous and does not force anyone into sin. If He did such things, no one would want to spend eternity with Him. There is a simple solution to harmonizing predestination with free will.

Knowing the outcome is not the same thing as forcing the outcome.

If an alarm clock is set to go off at 6 a.m., I am forcing the event to occur (Predestination). However, if I walk into a room and see that the alarm clock is set to go off at 5 p.m., I am not forcing the event, even though I know the outcome (Foreknowledge). It is possible that the divine powers, foreknowledge and omnipotence, can operate in God’s heart without interference.

 

[FineLinen]

John 3:16.....
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Salvation is a freewill choice when God calls a sinner. The sinner hears the call and then must choose if he will accept or reject it.

Salvation begins in God and ends in God. Broken lost sinners cannot hear anything of the Lord until He opens their deaf ears. Even repentance must be given of Him & is "granted".

The choosing is strictly His!

You did NOT choose Me, I chose.." declares the Master of Reconciliation.

 

[FineLinen]

Majorly WRONG!!


I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
(Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Phi 2:10)

The Bible is all about salvation. EVERY LAST SHEEP.

To say that any are irretrievably lost is to majorly blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. (Mt 22:29)

It's easy to kill and destroy, that's just what the devil and fallen man do all day long.

But the great glory consists in SALVATION. And GOD IS SALVATION, so look ye to Him all the ends of the earth.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor 15:28)

Thank the Father of all you & St. Steve finally arrived.

The tag team of Noli-Major came so close to transforming my grasp of the UN (limited) One. (lol)

As you so clearly presented, the subjection of the radical all has one glorious climax, the One who has sworn by Himself.

Will He be successful? Perhaps (with a small p.), the tag team is correct, all does not radically mean all.

Our God has determined in His own mind, and without consultation from any being, that He will have a creation that worships Him in union with His Name!

NOT by perfunctory genuflections "at" the sound of His lovely Name, but "IN/EN" union with His Name.

At-one-ment!

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Note on "acknowledge"

eksomologéō from ek, "wholly out from,"

Fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Verse 10

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ινα εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου παν γονυ καμπσηι — hina en tōi onomati Iēsou pan gonu kampsēi).

First aorist active subjunctive of καμπτω — kamptō old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ινα — hina

Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven.

This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

Under the earth (καταχτονιων — katachthoniōn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. -Robertson Word Pictures-

 

[FineLinen]

According to the common idea one’s salvation is made to depend almost entirely on his own personal efforts.

"God has made all necessary provision; he has prepared the feast, spread the table, and sent out the invitation; now if you will accept and persevere you will be saved; but if not, you will be lost; God can do no more for you; he has made all needful provision; now your personal salvation depends entirely on yourself; this is the way the matter is usually put, and thus God is practically left out of the question in the salvation of the individual; each one is taught that his future well-being depends on himself personally; if he will fulfill certain conditions God will do his part, but if he fails in these conditions God can do nothing more for him, and all that he has done will go for naught so far as he personally is concerned." -A.P. Adams-

 

[Major1]

Salvation begins in God and ends in God. Broken lost sinners cannot hear anything of the Lord until He opens their deaf ears. Even repentance must be given of Him & is "granted".

The choosing is strictly His!

You did NOT choose Me, I chose.." declares the Master of Reconciliation.

Which is exactly what I said my brother. God “knew something” about us ahead of time, and on that basis, he “predestined” us. Usually what God is thought to have known is that a certain person will respond positively to the gospel and believe.

 

[Major1]

According to the common idea one’s salvation is made to depend almost entirely on his own personal efforts.

"God has made all necessary provision; he has prepared the feast, spread the table, and sent out the invitation; now if you will accept and persevere you will be saved; but if not, you will be lost; God can do no more for you; he has made all needful provision; now your personal salvation depends entirely on yourself; this is the way the matter is usually put, and thus God is practically left out of the question in the salvation of the individual; each one is taught that his future well-being depends on himself personally; if he will fulfill certain conditions God will do his part, but if he fails in these conditions God can do nothing more for him, and all that he has done will go for naught so far as he personally is concerned." -A.P. Adams-

All of the is true...…."FOR those who accept God's forgivness of sin which is only found in the Lord Jesus Christ.

“Predestine” us, as the English verb suggests, this word (proorizo) simply means to direct a person to a particular goal.

Paul spells out the goal: “to be conformed to the likeness of his Son.”

The last stage of Christian existence is to be “conformed” to Christ’s own glorious body (see Phil. 3:21). God enters into relationship with us so that we may attain that goal.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Thank the Father of all you & St. Steve finally arrived.

The tag team of Noli-Major came so close to transforming my grasp of the UN (limited) One. (lol)

As you so clearly presented, the subjection of the radical all has one glorious climax, the One who has sworn by Himself.

Will He be successful? Perhaps (with a small p.), the tag team is correct, all does not radically mean all.

Our God has determined in His own mind, and without consultation from any being, that He will have a creation that worships Him in union with His Name!

NOT by perfunctory genuflections "at" the sound of His lovely Name, but "IN/EN" union with His Name.

At-one-ment!

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Note on "acknowledge"

eksomologéō from ek, "wholly out from,"

Fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Verse 10

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ινα εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου παν γονυ καμπσηι — hina en tōi onomati Iēsou pan gonu kampsēi).

First aorist active subjunctive of καμπτω — kamptō old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ινα — hina

Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven.

This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

Under the earth (καταχτονιων — katachthoniōn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. -Robertson Word Pictures-

And it doesn't get any clearer than that, in scripture or exposition my brother.

Why do so many not understand that eternal torment represents the victory of hatred over a loving God and of death over a living God?

The god of this age has blinded the minds of so many.