LDS Mormons Take Satan's Deception From Genesis

[Jamesone5]

I have looked on the internet, and the best Hebrew concept would be:
Jesus is the complete revelation of God's person. Jesus Christ is God's very Self revealed.

So if God the Father is in heaven and has given Jesus all the power and authority to create and govern the world, how do we come to know God the Father?

Well, God the Father has sent his Son to the earth to help people get to know Jesus's God and Father (John 20:17). And the way that Jesus can do that is by being in God's express image, IOW his earthly body is revealing the very Person of God Himself. So that if you see Jesus, you in fact are seeing what God the Father is like.

Do you have another Hebrew answer for "express image"?

Close, but yet you miss the elephant in the room.

If we see God though Jesus Christ---how can He be another God entirely?

 

[Jamesone5]

OK, you told me what it does not mean, now tell me what "US" means?

Us does NOT mean Elohim ---or as you suggest Elohims.

Just as I suggested in the OP.

 

[Scott Husted]

First ----I grew up LDS and like that Church teaches we can be like God. In fact the Lorenzo Snow couplet was taught which goes like this:

"As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become"

And from the LDS website:

The Prophet Joseph Smith himself publicly taught the doctrine the following year, 1844, during a funeral sermon of Elder King Follett: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!

Is President Snow’s statement—‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be’—accepted as official doctrine?

Of course the Church has partially tried to deny this was taught at one time.

But we can go to Genesis and see what satan suggested to Eve which is:

Genesis 3:5
5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.

God acknowledges this, just before He banished them from the Garden of Eden:


Genesis 3:22

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever


A simple Concordance rendering in the Hebrew language tells us that in satan's deception you will be like God would read "like Elohim"----while the phrase the man has become like one of Us" reads far different in what God acknowledges.

Mormons [of which I was one until God brought me out] assume too much from their Bibles and this is a classic example of that assuming.

Through perception we make te word what it is and forget the defining fact ... that God is invisible.

 

[Jamesone5]

OK, you told me what it does not mean, now tell me what "US" means?

The "Us" is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost as one God just like Israel proclaimed and God said. Was not the Spirit of God stated as an actual cause of that Creation?.

Genesis 1:2
The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters


And then Jesus Christ declares this though Paul

Colossians 1:15, 16

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or]principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.



And,-the verses read differently in "who we will supposedly be like" versus "has become" and Mormons have taken the bait of the serpent.

 

[Jamesone5]

Through perception we make te word what it is and forget the defining fact ... that God is invisible.

Yes, and Faith is the evidence of this

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

 

[Peter1000]

Close, but yet you miss the elephant in the room.

If we see God though Jesus Christ---how can He be another God entirely?

If I told you that I was the express image of my Father, would you think that my father must be a handsome man, with a compound body like mine? Yes, of course you would.

Or if I said I am the express image of my father, would you think me and my Father were in 1 person or would you think there were 2 of us?

God's person is revealed in Jesus. God is in heaven and Jesus was sent, in His express image to reveal to people what God looks like and what bodily form He has. Not that Jesus and him are physically in Jesus, but that He and Jesus look the same and are like each other bodily.
.
IOW the elephant in the room is God and Jesus look just alike and feel just alike. They walk and talk and eat and drink and teach and exercise and all the things that man does. That is the elephant, not that they are in the same person.

The elephant in the room is that there are 2 of them that look so much alike that one is called the express image of the other one.

 

[Scott Husted]

Yes, and Faith is the evidence of this

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

The word substance there is the same word translated person as the image He expressed
...

 

[Jamesone5]

If I told you that I was the express image of my Father, would you think that my father must be a handsome man, with a compound body like mine? Yes, of course you would.

Or if I said I am the express image of my father, would you think me and my Father were in 1 person or would you think there were 2 of us?

God's person is revealed in Jesus. God is in heaven and Jesus was sent, in His express image to reveal to people what God looks like and what bodily form He has. Not that Jesus and him are physically in Jesus, but that He and Jesus look the same and are like each other bodily.
.
IOW the elephant in the room is God and Jesus look just alike and feel just alike. They walk and talk and eat and drink and teach and exercise and all the things that man does. That is the elephant, not that they are the in the same person.

The elephant in the room is that there is 2 of them that look so much alike that one is called the express image of the other one.

you are made in the ONLY in the image of God

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Now "express image" is essentially God as you somewhat agree.

Being a supposed "other God" would not make Christ an express image.

Here is another clue here:

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

 

[Jamesone5]

The word substance there is the same word translated person as the image He expressed
...

Thank you for that enlightenment.

 

[Peter1000]

Yes, and Faith is the evidence of this

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Then Jesus cannot be God because he is not "invisible".

 

[Jamesone5]

Then Jesus cannot be God because he is not "invisible".

You are essentially arguing against Scripture, not me

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

 

[Peter1000]

you are made in the ONLY in the image of God

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Now "express image" is essentially God.

A supposed other God would not make Christ an express image

Genesis 1:26 is better because it adds another factor:
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness....

What does it mean to be made in God's image? Here it is. If you were to take a light and shine it on a wall, and then get yourself between the light and the wall, your image would show up on the wall. You would see your head, your torso, your arms and legs, etc., etc., etc.

What does it mean to be made after God's likeness? That means that we are made of the same stuff as God is, we are like Him. In essence, flesh, bone, and spirit.

I see you pulled back and instead of saying that "express image" is God, at least you said "essentially God". The express image of God was Jesus. Jesus was on earth revealing what God looked like and felt like, while God the Father was in heaven. 2 different persons (we say Gods, because they are Gods in their own rights), in 2 different places, at exactly the same time.

 

[Peter1000]

You are essentially arguing against Scripture, not me

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

I am not arguing against scripture, I am arguing against his logic. The scriptures are plain that Jesus is both visible and God, if someone comes along and says God is invisible, that knocks out Jesus (who is obviously visible), hence Jesus cannot be God.

Can you figure it any other way?

 

[Peter1000]

You are essentially arguing against Scripture, not me

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

If Scott wants to say that God the Father is invisible, then I can almost believe him. Because God the Father has determined to let his Son, Jesus Christ be in charge of the creation and the governance of the world.

So Jesus is the spearhead for the Godhead, God the Father is not seen often, and has been virtually invisible.

Jesus Christ, who is the second God, is certainly not invisible, and he is God too. So Scott needs to adjust his words a little, and he would be going in the right direction.

 

[mmksparbud]

You are right, at that point in their existence, they had become as one of "us Gods" But they were on their way to becoming just like Jesus who is just like God. How do I know that?

We are heirs of God. What are we heirs of?

And joint heirs with Jesus of all that the Father has. What does the Father have that would be interesting to inherit?

BTW, if your body form is not up to receiving his burning, your character is not going to get you very far.

They had become as one of them only in the fact that they now know good and evil instead of just good.
They were not on their way to becoming just like Jesus---they took a giant step backwards and were now sinners and their children would be born sinners---all of them in need of a savior. Before they fell, they were one in spirit with Jesus, their creator. They could see Him face to face (not like Moses called faced to face, but actually face to face without any veiling)---they had no need of a savior before then!! They totally marred the image of Christ on themselves, nature and their children.
And BTW---your character is what will give you a body that will be able to tolerate His burnings.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

 

[Peter1000]

Through perception we make te word what it is and forget the defining fact ... that God is invisible.

Was there ever a time when Jesus was invisible. Is there a time now that Jesus is invisible?

If not, and God is invisible, explain to me how you figure Jesus is God then?

 

[mmksparbud]

I am not arguing against scripture, I am arguing against his logic. The scriptures are plain that Jesus is both visible and God, if someone comes along and says God is invisible, that knocks out Jesus (who is obviously visible), hence Jesus cannot be God.

Can you figure it any other way?

Jesus is fully God. Always was one with the Father in every aspect. He became human at the incarnation, yet was fully God still and the only man who could ever claim to be God on earth. The Father is spirit---that is what Jesus said. You-- noir any human--- is able to fully comprehend this yet. Jesus always was and always will be God---one with the Father in a way we can not be. We are adopted---therefore not His
natural children. He has only one natural child---His only Son, Jesus. He is not the same Jesus that you lay claim to and call your church by His name. The real Jesus is not your Jesus. You need to know Him and choose Him. A false Christ can do nothing for you!!

 

[mmksparbud]

Was there ever a time when Jesus was invisible. Is there a time now that Jesus is invisible?

If not, and God is invisible, explain to me how you figure Jesus is God then?

YES!! SEE POST 37!

 

[Peter1000]

The word substance there is the same word translated person as the image He expressed
...

So could you say: Now faith is the "person as the image He expressed" of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Or do you just use the word "person", so it says:
Now faith is the "person" of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Are you trying to get God or Jesus into this description of what faith is because it has the words
"not seen" at the end? Not quite following you.

 

[Scott Husted]

Was there ever a time when Jesus was invisible. Is there a time now that Jesus is invisible?

If not, and God is invisible, explain to me how you figure Jesus is God then?

Jesus said there is none good but God in response to someone calling him good. Truth, lie, both ... (this was a passover statement for Jesus, or the picking up of his cross, ie a servant/son)

The Revelation of who he was was given to him just as it is to every son; in terms that could be understood by those beholding the expressed image of the person of God (who he said to some looking at him, that they had neither heard him or seen at anytime) ... in the form of a son in whom God is well pleased.