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Are You of Israel?

Are you of Israel?

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 76.7%
  • No

    Votes: 7 23.3%

  • Total voters
    30

Davy

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Here is what Yahshua said:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Here is what YHWH said:


(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

His son reiterated it:


(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

His son's disciples reiterated it:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'
(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'

And yet NOT EVEN ONE SOUL will have His Salvation without BELIEF on His Son Jesus Christ! ALL knees will bow to Christ Jesus, as written, whether all believe on Him or not. Law keeping cannot save any soul.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The Romans 9:6-8 Scripture is about The Gospel Promise which God originally gave Abraham concerning all the nations of the earth being blessed. It continued to his son Isaac also...

Gen 26:4
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

KJV

It is not just about flesh born Israelites, although those of the seed who 'believe' are included in The Promise, since it was first given through them, which is Paul's meaning in Romans 9:2-5.

This is shown by Paul even more later in Romans 9 when he quotes from the prophet Hosea to those Roman Gentile believers.

Rom 9:23-26
23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


25 As He saith also in Osee, 'I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.


26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

KJV

That Hosea Scripture was originally written 'only'... about the ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel that was first to fall away into idol rebellion. But Paul includes the believing Gentiles in that final status God gave about the house of Israel in the Book of Hosea. Once one understands that The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, and they would believe, and then begin to realize that the ten tribes were scattered among the Gentiles, what Paul said there starts to make sense. Thus Christ's Church is made up of both believing Israelite and believing Gentile. There is no separation like the false Jews keep wrongly teaching.

I think we have to develop some kind of time line for the inclusion of the Gentiles so we can reconcile God's instruction to Jesus regarding his commission to go only to the house of Israel (which instruction also included the disciples). That Jesus was "obedient unto death" demands that he kept his father's words...to the letter. Of course this can be done by establishing two differing ministries; that of Jesus and the disciples to the house of Israel, and Paul to the Gentile world generally. Conflating them confuses both.
 
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Zao is life

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This has to do with physical Israel. The legitimate seed of Abraham would arise through Isaac, the son of promise, not Ishmael, the son of the flesh.

That the heathen (all nations) would be blessed is a separate promise.
I agree. Paul makes it even clearer in that he continues by pointing out that the promised seed came through Jacob, not Esau:

Rom 9:10-13 "And not only this, but when Rebekah also had conceived by one, by our father Isaac (for the children had not yet been born, neither had done any good or evil; but that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who called,) it was said to her, "The elder shall serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Both Abraham and Sarah are promised they would become the parents of (a) Many Gentile nations (the Hebrew uses the word Goyim in both promises); and (b) the genetic seed who was to come through Isaac and Jacob.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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If you are not of Israel; you are not in covenant with YHWH.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If you are not of Israel Yahshua wasn't commissioned for you.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

OH! OH! But WE'RE grafted IN! Grafted into what?

(CLV) Ro 11:17
Now if some of the boughs are broken out, yet you, being a wild olive, are grafted among them, and became joint participant of the root and fatness of the olive,

What is this olive tree?

(CLV) Jer 11:16
A flourishing olive tree, lovely with shapely fruit, Yahweh had called your name; But with the sound of a great din, He will ravage its leaves with fire, And its branches will be smashed.

(CLV) Jer 11:17
Yahweh of hosts Who planted you has decreed evil against you owing to the evil of the house of Israel and the house of Judah, which they have done for themselves to provoke Me to vexation by fuming incense to Baal.
Hi, there is a serious errors in covenant theology which builds a case with much truth which is a foundation used to lead you to wrong conclusions. What you have right is that these is such a thing as the spiritual kingdom of God and it is accessed through the new covenant.
What you have wrong is that God is done with national Israel and that the kingdom of God is not coming to earth after the tribulation when the LORD comes and is king over all the earth.
God knew Israel would reject the LORD and all this was prophesied too. In Jer 31 the verses immediately following the promise of the new covenant God affirms Israel will not cease to be nation in God's eyes and that He will not cast off the seed of Israel for all they have done. Chapter 31 end with a promise that the city Jerusalem will be rebuilt at a time when the dead bodies fill the valleys and from that time on it will by holy and never thrown down again.
Ezekiel 36 God speaks to the mountains of Israel and notes that they will be inhabited again and the generation brought back to Israel that God will remove the reproach of the nations from them and in that day god will give them a new heart as well. These people brought back to the land God notes have profaned the name of the LORD in all the nations where they were scattered. God notes He brings them back for His names sake. When you get to Eze 38 God further details of the Gog Magog invasion against Israel.
After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, ...
This is describing modern day Israel which has all the trees cut down due to a tree tax imposed so they cut down the forests. These trees were replanted in the early 1900's and now the mountains are inhabited and no longer desolate. This prophecy is designated for the latter days to those brought back from all the nations where they were scattered and this people will be the ones who receive the new heart or accept the new covenant in the latter years. Jer 31 follows chapter 30 and is connected via the opening of Ch 31 says in that day...What day? the day of Jacobs trouble is connected to the new covenant which they rejected in Jesus day but receive int eh day of Jacobs trouble.

So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
7 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.

‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the LORD of hosts,
That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the LORD their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.

For I am with you,’ says the LORD, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’

‘Therefore all those who devour you shall be devoured;
And all your adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity;
Those who plunder you shall become plunder,
And all who prey upon you I will make a prey.
17 For I will restore health to you
And heal you of your wounds,’ says the LORD,
‘Because they called you an outcast saying:
“This is Zion;
No one seeks her.” ’
18 “Thus says the LORD:
‘Behold, I will bring back the captivity of Jacob’s tents,
And have mercy on his dwelling places;
The city shall be built upon its own mound,
And the palace shall remain according to its own plan.
19 Then out of them shall proceed thanksgiving
And the voice of those who make merry;
I will multiply them, and they shall not diminish;
I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as before,
And their congregation shall be established before Me;
And I will punish all who oppress them.
21 Their nobles shall be from among them,
And their governor shall come from their midst;
Then I will cause him to draw near,
And he shall approach Me;
For who is this who pledged his heart to approach Me?’ says the LORD.
22 ‘You shall be My people,
And I will be your God.’ ”
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD
Goes forth with fury,
A continuing whirlwind;
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the LORD will not return until He has done it,
And until He has performed the intents of His heart.
In the latter days you will consider it.


This is all future and takes the word of the LORD literally and it sets up a realistic view that today is nearing the days of the end of the age, Daniels 70th week, the tribulation and relegates the 70 AD historical view null.
 
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ChetSinger

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What new rules?

It's called magnifying. YHWH told us he would magnify his law. You just confirmed that his law still stands; but let's not just take your word for it.

For example? I see no evidence of this.

The rules haven't changed. They've been magnified.
To demonstrate that your opinions are Christian, please list the Christian denominations that teach them.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Please explain what do you mean? I don’t think Jesus or his disciples disobeyed.

If the women of Canaan and Samaria were Gentiles it would have been against God's commission to go only to the house of Israel. But because Jesus was obedient in all things these women were most certainly Israelites.
 
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nolidad

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There was always promise for Gentiles who came to YHWH. Abraham is the prime example of this.

You are spitting on YHWH's covenant with Abraham, with all of those of the mixed multitude who entered covenant at Sinai, and on YHWH's covenant with Ruth.

YHWH doesn't make covenants with Pagans. Pagans repent and become Israel through covenant with YHWH.

I agree there was hope for a Gentiole-if they became a Jew! But a gentile as a gentile as Paul said had no hope and was without God in this world. All gentiles were pagans!
 
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HARK!

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It's the other way. It's you... that does not understand Paul, nor the Promise of The Gospel which YHVH first gave to Abraham by Faith. And the old covenant is dead. The New Covenant Jesus offered is about that Promise by Faith. And the believing Gentiles are in... that New Covenant with YHVH through the Blood of Jesus Christ!


Again, Paul isn't going to disagree with YHWH and Yahshua. YHWH clearly says that his covenant is with Israel.

There is no mention of YHWH making his covenant with Pagans. Pagans must repent in order to become Israel.

(CLV) Jn 8:39
They answered and say to Him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus answered them, "If you are children of Abraham, did you ever do the works of Abraham?

(CLV) Jn 8:42
Jesus, then, said to them, "If God were your Father, you would have loved Me. For out of God I came forth and am arriving. For neither have I come of Myself, but He commissions Me.

(CLV) Jn 8:44
You/ are of your father, the Adversary, and the desires of your father you are wanting to do. He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it.


(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the law.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

Here is what Paul says:

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.
 
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HARK!

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New Covenant with YHVH through the Blood of Jesus Christ!


(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?
 
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HARK!

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And yet NOT EVEN ONE SOUL will have His Salvation without BELIEF on His Son Jesus Christ! ALL knees will bow to Christ Jesus, as written, whether all believe on Him or not. Law keeping cannot save any soul.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS
 
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Minister Monardo

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Again, Paul isn't going to disagree with YHWH and Yahshua. YHWH clearly says that his covenant is with Israel.

There is no mention of YHWH making his covenant with Pagans. Pagans must repent in order to become Israel.

(CLV) Jn 8:39
They answered and say to Him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus answered them, "If you are children of Abraham, did you ever do the works of Abraham?

(CLV) Jn 8:42
Jesus, then, said to them, "If God were your Father, you would have loved Me. For out of God I came forth and am arriving. For neither have I come of Myself, but He commissions Me.

(CLV) Jn 8:44
You/ are of your father, the Adversary, and the desires of your father you are wanting to do. He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it.

How is it you use these verses from John 8 to support Yeshua and His covenant with Israel.
All I see mentioned is Abraham, as does Paul.
Galatians 3:29. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 
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Minister Monardo

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(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?
So the covenant of Grace is even stricter? I agree. You have received the promise of the Holy Spirit, something only prophets, and King David, i.e. the Lord's anointed possessed. You have been entrusted with great and precious promises! Israel under Law of Moses had no such empowerment.
 
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Minister Monardo

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YHWH clearly says that his covenant is with Israel.
If you want to use Paul's teachings for this, then he specifically did NOT say Israel, but
Romans 9:6, 7. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
 
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HARK!

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What you have wrong is that God is done with national Israel and that the kingdom of God is not coming to earth after the tribulation when the LORD comes and is king over all the earth.

I didn't speak against that. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I did.

I really don't want this to turn into a prophecy debate thread, so If you have an explanation please try to briefly keep it on point.

Thank you.
 
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HARK!

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So the covenant of Grace is even stricter? I agree.

I saw this; couldn't resist responding to it out of sequence.


WOW, Captain Obvious, thanks for saving the day!

I glazed over this small but extremely important detail, for my whole life. Thanks for helping me with new perspective.
 
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Minister Monardo

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I saw this; couldn't resist responding to it out of sequence.


WOW, Captain Obvious, thanks for saving the day!

I glazed over this small but extremely important detail, for my whole life. Thanks for helping me with new perspective.
The covenant of David, whom I love a chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent. [Rev 3:19].
Every day, all day, I submit to your leading, and if necessary your correction. A life of devotion.
Psalm 119:38. Establish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear.
 
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HARK!

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To demonstrate that your opinions are Christian, please list the Christian denominations that teach them.

That is not within the scope, nor the purpose of this thread. I have no interest in conducting such a study. As you can see, I'm non denominational. I don't hold to any denominational doctrine. I've seen bickering going on even within denominations. I take what each individual brings to me; and I weigh that with scripture.
 
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Jan001

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...and here we see these two trees coming together. (CLV) Ro 11:24....

Romans 11:24
For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Both the Israelites and Gentiles are branches of the same olive tree. The olive tree is the household of God (the people of God). The root of the olive tree is Jesus Christ.

Romans 11:16-18
If the dough offered as first fruits is holy, so is the whole lump; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches (Israelites) were broken off, and you (Gentiles), a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their (the Israelites') place to share the richness of the olive tree (household of God), 18 do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root (Jesus Christ) that supports you.
 
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HARK!

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I agree there was hope for a Gentiole-if they became a Jew! But a gentile as a gentile as Paul said had no hope and was without God in this world. All gentiles were pagans!

YHWH didn't make his covenant with the Jews. He made it with Israel. The Pagan mixed multitude entered covenant; and they became Israel.


(CLV) Ex 19:1
In the third month after the going forth of the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, on this day they entered the wilderness of Sinai.
 
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