Are You of Israel?

[HARK!]

If you are not of Israel; you are not in covenant with YHWH.


(CLV) Hb 8:8
For, blaming them, He is saying, "Lo! the days are coming," the Lord is saying, "And I shall be concluding with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant,

Notice that it doesn't say one covenant for Jews and another for Pagans. There is only one covenant with Israel, in Yahshua. Let's read on:

(CLV) Hb 8:9
Not in accord with the covenant which I make with their fathers In the day of My taking hold of their hand To be leading them out of the land of Egypt, Seeing that they do not remain in My covenant, And I neglect them," the Lord is saying,

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If you are not of Israel Yahshua wasn't commissioned for you.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

OH! OH! But WE'RE grafted IN! Grafted into what?

(CLV) Ro 11:17
Now if some of the boughs are broken out, yet you, being a wild olive, are grafted among them, and became joint participant of the root and fatness of the olive,

What is this olive tree?

(CLV) Jer 11:16
A flourishing olive tree, lovely with shapely fruit, Yahweh had called your name; But with the sound of a great din, He will ravage its leaves with fire, And its branches will be smashed.

(CLV) Jer 11:17
Yahweh of hosts Who planted you has decreed evil against you owing to the evil of the house of Israel and the house of Judah, which they have done for themselves to provoke Me to vexation by fuming incense to Baal.

 

[GospelS]

I shall dare not answer God that I'm a gentile when He calls to me to do something that He already told Israel to do.

God renamed Jacob and called His people Israel. All the other people He called foreigners, synonym for gentiles.

> I see there can only be two people- Israel and foreigners (gentiles). One is either a foreigner (gentile) OR Israel; can't be both at the same time.

> I think God considers Israel as 'clean' and foreigners (gentiles) as ‘unclean’. Born-again are Israel and 'clean' while NOT born-again are foreigners (gentiles) and 'unclean'.

> God asked Israel not to intermarry with foreigners (gentiles). God asked us not to unequally yoke with unbelievers (foreigners/gentiles).

> Wild olive shoots are called as foreigners (gentiles), not anymore those who are grafted-in.

> I don't think there can be both foreign (gentile) believers and foreign (gentile) unbelievers. All unbelievers are foreigners (gentiles) and all foreigners (gentiles) are unbelievers.

> I don't think Paul considered anyone a foreigner (gentile) after they became born-again. (I think this is not completely understood as he meant it to be).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Zebulun (Dutch), Manasseh (America), on my father's side.
Benjamin (Norwegian) on my mother's side.
Also Jewish (insignificant) according to Genetic test.

 

[HARK!]

God renamed Jacob and called His people Israel. All the other people He called foreigners, synonym for gentiles.

> I see there can only be two people- Israel and foreigners (gentiles). One is either a foreigner (gentile) OR Israel; can't be both at the same time.
> I think God considers Israel as 'clean' and foreigners (gentiles) as ‘unclean’. Born-again are Israel and 'clean' while NOT born-again are foreigners (gentiles) and 'unclean'.
> God asked Israel not to intermarry with foreigners (gentiles). God asked us not to unequally yoke with unbelievers (foreigners/gentiles).
> Wild olive shoots are called as foreigners (gentiles), not anymore those who are grafted-in.
> I don't think there can be both foreign (gentile) believers and foreign (gentile) unbelievers. All unbelievers are foreigners (gentiles) and all foreigners (gentiles) are unbelievers.
> I don't think Paul called anyone a foreigner (gentile) after they became born-again. (I think this is not completely understood as he meant it to be).

You've brought up some very valid points. It was my intention to cover some of these points; but you have introduced some that I hadn't considered. Awesome post!

 

[GospelS]

God created a family for Himself and called me into His family. I don't call myself a foreigner (gentile) anymore. I only identify myself as God identifies me.

I don't consider other born-again believers as foreigners (gentiles) either. I was once a gentile, a wild olive shoot, unclean, not born-again; but not anymore.

God called me and gave me a new name Israel. I can no longer be a foreigner (gentile) again.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God renamed Jacob and called His people Israel. All the other people He called foreigners, synonym for gentiles.

> I see there can only be two people- Israel and foreigners (gentiles). One is either a foreigner (gentile) OR Israel; can't be both at the same time.
> I think God considers Israel as 'clean' and foreigners (gentiles) as ‘unclean’. Born-again are Israel and 'clean' while NOT born-again are foreigners (gentiles) and 'unclean'.
> God asked Israel not to intermarry with foreigners (gentiles). God asked us not to unequally yoke with unbelievers (foreigners/gentiles).
> Wild olive shoots are called as foreigners (gentiles), not anymore those who are grafted-in.
> I don't think there can be both foreign (gentile) believers and foreign (gentile) unbelievers. All unbelievers are foreigners (gentiles) and all foreigners (gentiles) are unbelievers.
> I don't think Paul considered anyone a foreigner (gentile) after they became born-again. (I think this is not completely understood as he meant it to be).

When God 'divorced' Israel they became "gentiles", until they were reconciled back to him. Paul uses the term Gentile for both Israelites and non-Israelites. You have to study closely to determine which is which. The term itself means: Gentile (as non Israelite); nations (the); tribes (the).

 

[HARK!]

(CLV) Ezk 37:15
The word of Yahweh came to me, saying:

(CLV) Ezk 37:16
As for you, son of humanity, take for yourself one stick, and write on it: For Judah and for the sons of Israel joined with him; then take another stick, and write on it: For Joseph (Ephraim's stick) and all the house of Israel joined with him.

(CLV) Ezk 37:17
Bring them near, one to the other, into one stick for yourself that they may become one in your hand.

1. tree, wood, timber, stock, plank, stalk, stick, gallows
   
   1. tree, trees
      
      
   2. wood, pieces of wood, gallows, firewood, cedar-wood, woody flax
   3. 
      H6086 - `ets - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
   
   These two trees are joined again as one in Yahshua.

The House of Judah (The natural tree) is Joined to Israel (The wild tree) to become again, one tree (The House of Israel)

 

[Mr. M]

If you are not of Israel; you are not in covenant with YHWH.

Galatians 6:12-16. As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Romans 9:6-8. But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
Romans 11:25-29. For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
All of natural Israel will be saved because of covenant promises made to the Patriarchs.
The elect of the nations are grafted into Israel based on a covenant made with David hundreds of years later. It is a covenant of obedience to discipline, not the Law of Moses. Anyone who fails to make that distinction inevitably, by their own testimony, fail to acknowledge this covenant. The covenant made after Sinai by Moses to Israel was tied to the land. "Tell the children of Israel, when you have entered the land that I promised your fathers, this is what you shall do."
The Nations do not have an inheritance of land, but of the Spirit of Christ through sanctification. T
he Nations are not of the land of Israel. Non-Israelites are of the spirit, not the flesh. Even as John came "in the spirit and power of Elijah". When the Tishbite returns, he will make this clear to all of natural Israel. The time of the Gentiles will be complete, and they will not be relevant to the restoration of Israel.

 

[GospelS]

When God 'divorced' Israel they became "gentiles", until they were reconciled back to him.

Thanks for sharing. God did not divorce me though. Thus I'm called and remain Israel.

 

[HARK!]

When God 'divorced' Israel they became "gentiles", until they were reconciled back to him. Paul uses the term Gentile for both Israelites and non-Israelites. You have to study closely to determine which is which. The term itself means: Gentile (as non Israelite); nations (the); tribes (the).

When YHWH called his people out of Egypt, many Egyptians followed followed Moses to enter covenant at Sinai. Those who entered covenant became every bit members of Israel, as the blood descendants of Abraham

Nothing has changed.

YHWH made this statement right after he gave the commandment to keep Passover.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

 

[GospelS]

You've brought up some very valid points. It was my intention to cover some of these points; but you have introduced some that I hadn't considered. Awesome post!

Thank you.

God renames whom He calls. I shall dare not answer God that I'm a gentile when He calls to me to do something that He already told Israel to do.

 

[HARK!]

The elect of the nations are grafted into Israel based on a covenant made with David hundreds of years later.

(CLV) Ex 12:38
Moreover a mixed multitude ascended with them, and flocks, herds and cattle, exceedingly heavy.

These folks entered covenant at Sinai, just like the others.

 

[HARK!]

God renames whom He calls. I shall dare not answer God that I'm a gentile when He calls to me to do something that He already told Israel to do.

I agree.

YHWH doesn't covenant with Pagans. If one doesn't submit to his ways; they are not in covenant.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Zebulun (Dutch), Manasseh (America), on my father's side. Benjamin (Norwegian) on my mother's side.

Give me a break...

 

[HARK!]

...and here we see these two trees coming together.

(CLV) Ro 11:24
For if you were hewn out of an olive wild by nature, and, beside nature, are grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much rather shall these, who are in accord with nature, be grafted into their own olive tree!

 

[Mr. M]

(CLV) Ex 12:38
Moreover a mixed multitude ascended with them, and flocks, herds and cattle, exceedingly heavy.

These folks entered covenant at Sinai, just like the others.

Righto. But that is not the apostolic doctrine. The covenant with David and the many prophecies in regard to His promise is cited. "Furthermore, I will build you a house."

 

[HARK!]

Righto. But that is not the apostolic doctrine.

I don't know what doctrine you're talking about.

Here's a good place to start for the doctrine that matters:

(CLV) Mt 4:4
Yet He, answering, said, "It is written, `Not on bread alone shall man be living, but on every declaration going out through the mouth of God.'"

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

In the sense of Genesis 32:28 and the hope to see myself in Revelation 2:17.

 

[BobRyan]

If you are not of Israel; you are not in covenant with YHWH.


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If you are not of Israel Yahshua wasn't commissioned for you.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

OH! OH! But WE'RE grafted IN! Grafted into what?

(CLV) Ro 11:17
Now if some of the boughs are broken out, yet you, being a wild olive, are grafted among them, and became joint participant of the root and fatness of the olive,

What is this olive tree?

(CLV) Jer 11:16
A flourishing olive tree, lovely with shapely fruit, Yahweh had called your name; But with the sound of a great din, He will ravage its leaves with fire, And its branches will be smashed.

(CLV) Jer 11:17
Yahweh of hosts Who planted you has decreed evil against you owing to the evil of the house of Israel and the house of Judah, which they have done for themselves to provoke Me to vexation by fuming incense to Baal.

Romans 2
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 9
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Therefore the New Covenant of Heb 8:6-12 and Jer 31:31-34 is applicable to me
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[Mr. M]

I don't know what doctrine you're talking about.

You don't know about the covenant with David? That was the basis for the apostolic doctrine. I have made many other posts in regard to this on your OP's, that we have not discussed. Maybe another time.