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Are You of Israel?
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Minister Monardo
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Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
All of natural Israel will be saved because of covenant promises made to the Patriarchs.
The elect of the nations are grafted into Israel based on a covenant made with David hundreds of years later. It is a covenant of obedience to discipline, not the Law of Moses. Anyone who fails to make that distinction inevitably, by their own testimony, fail to acknowledge this covenant. The covenant made after Sinai by Moses to Israel was tied to the land. "Tell the children of Israel, when you have entered the land that I promised your fathers, this is what you shall do."
The Nations do not have an inheritance of land, but of the Spirit of Christ through sanctification.
The Nations are not of the land of Israel. Non-Israelites are of the spirit, not the flesh. Even as John came "in the spirit and power of Elijah". When the Tishbite returns, he will make this clear to all of natural Israel. The time of the Gentiles will be complete, and they will not be relevant to the restoration of Israel.
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- Oct 29, 2017
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You are probably aware of this; but i want to point this out for the benefit of others.
Therefore the New Covenant of Heb 8:6-12 and Jer 31:31-34 is applicable to me
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
First he mentions two houses; but them only one. This again is confirmation of reuniting Yah's people in one house.
This is further confirmed in Hebrews:
(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.
One house.
(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.
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Scott Husted
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- Aug 1, 2017
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I hope to understand your question. But i think i've already clarified it in my post 2, 5, 11.
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- Oct 29, 2017
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You seem very sure of this. Who is natural Israel?
(CLV) Jn 8:39
They answered and say to Him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus answered them, "If you are children of Abraham, did you ever do the works of Abraham?
(CLV) Jn 8:44
You are of your father, the Adversary, and the desires of your father you are wanting to do. He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking o of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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- Oct 29, 2017
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Yet the nations entered the land, in covenant, from Egypt. The land is a type and shadow of the Kingdom.
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Minister Monardo
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Yes, I am. A distinction Paul is making in Romans 11.Follow me all the way through here, first with the verses you cite from John.
These and many other verses apply to that generation. You have quoted before Yeshua saying, "I am not come, but to the tribes of Israel". In the end, he condemned them to all the blood of the righteous, beginning with Abel. This included many former disciples who walked away at the end of John 6 when they were told that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood.
After His Resurrection, He sends His apostles out, 'to the ends of the earth'. The apostolic doctrine cannot conform to the doctrine Yeshua preached to 'natural Israel' in His day.
Luke 17:25. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
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- Oct 29, 2017
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This is totally out of context.
Those of the Ruach belong to Messiah. Those of the flesh belong to Satan. Those of the Ruach return to the Ruach. Those of the earth, return to the earth. It was never about the flesh, it was always of the Ruach, since YHWH put his Ruach into clay to form Adam.
My previous post only further demonstrates this:
(CLV) Jn 8:39
They answered and say to Him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus answered them, "If you are children of Abraham, did you ever do the works of Abraham?
(CLV) Jn 8:44
You are of your father, the Adversary, and the desires of your father you are wanting to do. He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking o of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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Ah, the wisdom of God! Enlarge your tent Hark. Surely you know our people were blinded to Christ until the fullness of the Gentiles could come in. They have had two days of grafting and we still have the millennial day to go. Our Heavenly Father and His beloved Son are in perfect control of Their creation. I like your posts.
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- Oct 29, 2017
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So are you saying that Yah's people can be of Satan?
Will we find Satanic people in his Kingdom?
(CLV) Jn 8:39
They answered and say to Him, "Our father is Abraham." Jesus answered them, "If you are children of Abraham, did you ever do the works of Abraham?
(CLV) Jn 8:44
You are of your father, the Adversary, and the desires of your father you are wanting to do. He was a man-killer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, for truth is not in him. Whenever he may be speaking a lie, he is speaking of his own, for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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- Nov 14, 2017
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The covenant on Mt. Sinai was conditional. The Israelites broke covenant with God.
Even so ... God never breaks His covenants ... the covenant promises are fulfilled through Jesus (the seed) and all who believe in Him are heirs .. no matter what nation one is from.
The "Jew, which is one outwardly," says Paul, "is not a Jew. . . . But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly" (Romans 2:28, 29). That is, any believer who accepts the covenant promises is a spiritual Jew or Israelite and an inheritor through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jesus. The promise of heirship of the world was not for Abraham alone, "but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead" (Romans 4:24, 25).
In God's sight there is now "neither Jew nor Greek . . . : for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galations 3:28, 29). Thus it is "that the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith" (Romans 9:30).
The kingdom promises were taken from the unbelieving Jewish nation —the church of God in Christ's day—(because of their refusal of Jesus as Messiah) and given to believing Gentiles and believing Jews—God's elect in every nation . To twice-born men, regardless of race, and to them alone, now belong "the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, . . . and the promises" (Romans 9:3-5).
The Israel "of the promise," the new community of faith in Christ, or the church, is not restricted to believing Jews. Paul states in Romans 9:24 that God called "us," the church of Christ (Messiah), "not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles." He supports this conclusion with an appeal to Hosea 2:23 and 1:10 (see Rom. 9:25, 26), where God made promises of acceptance to the ten apostate tribes of Israel who had virtually become like their heathen captors in the Assyrian exile. Thus Paul explicitly applies the eschatological fulfillment of Hosea's restoration promises for Israel to the church of Christ as a whole, consisting of both Jews and Gentiles.
Everyone comes to God the same way ..... through Jesus Christ!
All who are in Jesus Christ are His people ... His Israel
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Minister Monardo
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The mixed multitudes living among them as sojourners had no inheritance. As a type, all believers are called to live in the world as strangers and sojourners in the land. As Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Now you are getting somewhere. You cannot argue that all believers are called to live as natural Israel and come under Torah, while acknowledging the type of the stranger, who was always distinct. The sojourners define the believer, not the native Israelite. In the apostolic doctrine, which you seem so confused about, defined us by the standard of the patriarchs living in tents. Not the covenant of Moses living in a promised land.
Are you familiar with the house of the Rechabites, discussed in Jeremiah 35? Apply that word here.
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If this and Jeremiah 31 were the only verses- then I would agree with you!
For the New covenant was made with the twelve tribes of Israel, to replace the old covenant that Israel could not keep.
However:
Romans 11:
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Ephesians 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but
Under the old covenant gentiles were without hop. But now we are fellowheirs with Israel and partakers of the covenant through faith by8 grace.
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ChetSinger
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Yes, I now am. Though I was born a Gentile by God's grace I have been adopted into His family, as Paul says in Romans. Thank you Jesus.
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Minister Monardo
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You have made it out of context. Could you please cite the entire post so I can see the context that was written?
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Minister Monardo
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Now you are being ridiculous. Where did I say that? Not in the quote you posted.
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There was always promise for Gentiles who came to YHWH. Abraham is the prime example of this.
You are spitting on YHWH's covenant with Abraham, with all of those of the mixed multitude who entered covenant at Sinai, and on YHWH's covenant with Ruth.
YHWH doesn't make covenants with Pagans. Pagans repent and become Israel through covenant with YHWH.
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Not saying that you did. Sorry you took it that way.
Yahshua called some who were the blood of Abraham, the children of Satan. Your hypothesis doesn't work.
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Minister Monardo
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Okay, here is the entire quote, would you like to make your point.
Thank You for making a nice distinction.
Genesis 17:13. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
So you see that circumcision cannot pertain to those who are born of the Spirit.
You are confirming what Paul taught all along, that it is not of circumcision.
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