The seven kings of Revelation 17:10

[friend of]

The beast king will be dictator over the EU at that time. And the ten EU leaders, represented by the horns, having their crowns in Revelation 13 will rule with him.

Douggg, do you happen to know how the Preterists explain the 10 kings ruling with the beast when they posit that this all took place in 70 AD?

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, do you happen to know how the Preterists explain the 10 kings ruling with the beast when they posit that this all took place in 70 AD?

I don't recall. I have discussed with preterists their view going back 15 years, at the old Yahoo discussion boards. I don't know if it even came up. But it is an excellent point you make. I think I would ask Don Preston DonKPreston.com | Preterist Research Institute or see if he has any commentary or videos on the ten kings.

 

[Douggg]

@friend of

I just watched a you tube video by Don Preston, he seems to claim that the ten kings were Jewish authorities who conspired with Nero to persecute Christians. He does not identify by name the ten kings. At minute 1:55-2:05 he mentions the ten kings.

 

[friend of]

Interesting. Thanks Douggg

 

[Oberamagau]

@friend of

I just watched a you tube video by Don Preston, he seems to claim that the ten kings were Jewish authorities who conspired with Nero to persecute Christians. He does not identify by name the ten kings. At minute 1:55-2:05 he mentions the ten kings.

Well that just doesn't add up! Everything is about ROME - ROME and Rome. Why does everybody point to Rome when there's not ONE verse that does so?

I know why -

Biased - unscriptural - indoctrination.

It's predominately what people have been taught since the Reformation. Protestants still hold several prejudices over Rome, but not as much as the Muslim's who fought the Catholic's in past Crusades.

Rome crucified Christ, destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem, and persecuted Christian. Because of that, people carry those atrocities over to today - which haven't occurred in centuries, and believe that in the last days Rome will again emerge as the BEASTS!

Sorry but ISLAM will fulfill the prophecies of the last days - NOT ROME! Babylon is NOT Rome. It's a place that existed in the Arab/Muslim world - and a literal false religion - ISLAM. Babylon the Great and every end-time beast come from Islam.

Babylon falls twice. Babylon of old fell and Islam - Babylon the Great will be destroyed by Christ when he returns. I know - somebody is going to say the Ezekiel 38-39 war will destroy Islam.

I say Baloney, that war will destroy the invading armies coming toward Israel.

 

[summerville]

That's not a rule. And it is irrational, because just like now, and previous generations, there is a diversity and conflicting understandings of the text in every generation.

In Daniel 12, the understanding of the book, is sealed from understanding until the time of the end. Time of the end is indicated in the text when travel means and knowledge have been increased.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the donkey, hailed as the messiah. 4 days later he was crucified ending the 69th week. And the beginning of the gap to the 70th week beginning.

In the gap, forty years later the temple and city was destroyed, and the Jews sent into exile to the nations.

In the gap, on May 15, 1948, the Jews, abeit not all, have returned to their homeland, 1948, May 15, a nation born in a single day, fulfilled in Isaiah 66:8.

In the gap, 1967, the Jews retake Jerusalem, and make it their capital.

The parable of the fig tree goes into effect.

The 70th week will begin, before that generation passes away, ending the gap. And when Jerusalem and the Jews embrace the gospel of salvation, fulfilling Daniel 9:24.

• Jesus riding a donkey is NOT unique at all and IMO is not meaningful. The Jews had no horses... Everyone used donkeys for riding and hauling goods. Very few horses because lack of water and suitable pasture. Only Roman officers had horses. Makes the claim that Solomon had thousands of horses appear very silly.

 

[summerville]

Well that just doesn't add up! Everything is about ROME - ROME and Rome. Why does everybody point to Rome when there's not ONE verse that does so?

I know why -

Biased - unscriptural - indoctrination.

It's predominately what people have been taught since the Reformation. Protestants still hold several prejudices over Rome, but not as much as the Muslim's who fought the Catholic's in past Crusades.

Rome crucified Christ, destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem, and persecuted Christian. Because of that, people carry those atrocities over to today - which haven't occurred in centuries, and believe that in the last days Rome will again emerge as the BEASTS!

Sorry but ISLAM will fulfill the prophecies of the last days - NOT ROME! Babylon is NOT Rome. It's a literal place in the Arab/Muslim world - and a literal false religion - ISLAM. Babylon the Great and every end-time beast come from Islam.

Wow.. So now the Muslims instead of Russia or the US or the EU will fulfill the misunderstood prophecy. Wonder who will be identified in another 50 years.

 

[Oberamagau]

Wow.. So now the Muslims instead of Russia or the US or the EU will fulfill the misunderstood prophecy. Wonder who will be identified in another 50 years.

Show me where Russia, the US, or the EU are found in end-time prophecy?

 

[summerville]

Show me where Russia, the US, or the EU are found in end-time prophecy?

They aren't and neither is Islam found in end times prophecy.

Rome is not the beast nor is the Papacy. The "beast" is the Roman emperor that persecuted Jews.

When Titus went into Palestine to put down the civil war raging there, he commanded his Roman garrisons from Syria and he commanded foreign armies from other nearby countries that were part of the Roman Empire. (a map helps here) So Titus also commanded garrisons from Egypt, Syria and Arabia.

 

[Oberamagau]

They aren't and neither is Islam found in end times prophecy.

Rome is not the beast nor is the Papacy. The "beast" is the Roman emperor that persecuted Jews.

When Titus went into Palestine to put down the civil war raging there, he commanded his Roman garrisons from Syria and he commanded foreign armies from other nearby countries that were part of the Roman Empire. (a map helps here) So Titus also commanded garrisons from Egypt, Syria and Arabia.

I agree with the second paragraph - but certainly NOT the first. Preterism and historicism doesn't interest me. You say Islam isn't found in end-time prophecy. Is that because you're a preterist and believe it already happened? Are you going to tell me like so many others that you don't put man-made labels on yourself?

 

[summerville]

I agree with the second paragraph - but certainly NOT the first. Preterism and historicism doesn't interest me. You say Islam isn't found in end-time prophecy. Is that because you're a preterist and believe it already happened? Are you going to tell me like so many others that you don't put man-made labels on yourself?

I'm not a preterist .. I have just studied first century history and scripture. Jesus and John were addressing the seven churches not people thousands of years in the future. I mean Revelation says who the recipients are and when it will happen.

Martin Luther called the Catholic Church the beast and the harlot of Babylon .. Its a ridiculous lie, but politics is often like that.

What Islam teaches about the End Times and death
Truthnet.org, What is your purpose and meaning?islam/Islam-Bible/4Islambeliefs
The main point is that Jesus returns in the end and kills the Dajjal, the Antichrist. Another person who plays a part in the Muslim perspective, is the Mahdi. The Mahdi (the guided one) and the Muslim Jesus. The Mahdi will lead the armies of Islam in the end times struggle against the enemies of Islam.

 

[Oberamagau]

I'm not a preterist .. I have just studied first century history and scripture. Jesus and John were addressing the seven churches not people thousands of years in the future. I mean Revelation says who the recipients are and when it will happen.

Martin Luther called the Catholic Church the beast and the harlot of Babylon .. Its a ridiculous lie, but politics is often like that.

What Islam teaches about the End Times and death
Truthnet.org, What is your purpose and meaning?islam/Islam-Bible/4Islambeliefs
The main point is that Jesus returns in the end and kills the Dajjal, the Antichrist. Another person who plays a part in the Muslim perspective, is the Mahdi. The Mahdi (the guided one) and the Muslim Jesus. The Mahdi will lead the armies of Islam in the end times struggle against the enemies of Islam.

John was addressing what Jesus commanded him to address and was told to write what he sees. "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter."

Why would Christ want John to address the letter ONLY to Churches in Asia Minor when Jesus has those seven Churches in his right hand, and when they are a MYSTERY? Why would seven literal churches in Asia minor be labelled a mystery...a mystery in Christ RIGHT hand? Those churches would NOT be a mystery IF they indicated 7 literal Churches.

Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

What is this mystery? Are the seven stars in Jesus' right hand and the seven candlesticks around the Throne fulfilled prophecy? All I can say is it's no mystery to attribute these seven stars and candlesticks SOLELY to the 7 ancient churches. The text reveals a more enduring time.

 

[summerville]

John was addressing what Jesus commanded him to address and was told to write what he sees. "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter."

Why would Christ want John to address the letter ONLY to Churches in Asia Minor when Jesus has those seven Churches in his right hand, and when they are a MYSTERY? Why would seven literal churches in Asia minor be labelled a mystery...a mystery in Christ RIGHT hand? Those churches would NOT be a mystery IF they indicated 7 literal Churches.

Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

What is this mystery? Are the seven stars in Jesus' right hand and the seven candlesticks around the Throne fulfilled prophecy? All I can say is it's no mystery to attribute these seven stars and candlesticks SOLELY to the 7 ancient churches. The text reveals a more enduring time.

Why would you think the seven ASSEMBLIES were "Mystery".

Babylon is the mother of harlots and Israel is the harlot.

Judgment fell upon Israel in 70 AD when the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and its power structures so thoroughly that they have never been restored in 2000 years. Just as Revelation prophesied. And it came within 1 generation (40 years) of Jesus’ crucifixion, where he had been rejected by the Sanhedrin and executed.

 

[Oberamagau]

Why would you think the seven ASSEMBLIES were "Mystery".

Why? Because Jesus said they're a mystery!

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Are these churches/stars no longer in Christ right hand? Or is the mystery that they represent the Church age?

 

[Douggg]

• Jesus riding a donkey is NOT unique at all and IMO is not meaningful. The Jews had no horses... Everyone used donkeys for riding and hauling goods. Very few horses because lack of water and suitable pasture. Only Roman officers had horses. Makes the claim that Solomon had thousands of horses appear very silly.

Here's what it actually says in the text...

John 12:
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

The text itself is referring back to Zechariah 9:9.

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

At the time, the disciples themselves did not grasp the significance of what Jesus did...

16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

When Jesus appeared to the disciples after the resurrection, he opened their understanding of the scriptures that were about him...

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

 

[summerville]

Here's what it actually says in the text...

John 12:
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

The text itself is referring back to Zechariah 9:9.

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

At the time, the disciples themselves did not grasp the significance of what Jesus did...

16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

When Jesus appeared to the disciples after the resurrection, he opened their understanding of the scriptures that were about him...

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

As I said Jews rode on donkeys, not horses.

Horses were latecomers to Israel and could only be afforded by the very wealthy. They tended more to be associated with warfare and with the Roman occupying army. As time passed horses took their places as riding animals.

 

[Douggg]

As I said Jews rode on donkeys, not horses.

Horses were latecomers to Israel and could only be afforded by the very wealthy. They tended more to be associated with warfare and with the Roman occupying army. As time passed horses took their places as riding animals.

But that is not the reason that Jesus rode the donkey. It is in the text itself... Jesus did it to fulfill the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9.

John 12:
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

 

[summerville]

But that is not the reason that Jesus rode the donkey. It is in the text itself... Jesus did it to fulfill the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9.

John 12:
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

How is a common practice among all Jews a special sign? Jews rode donkeys. Roman officers rode horses.

 

[Douggg]

Well that just doesn't add up! Everything is about ROME - ROME and Rome. Why does everybody point to Rome when there's not ONE verse that does so?

Armies under Islam did not destroy the temple and city.

The Romans followed the greeks in both Daniel 2 Daniel 7.

Islam, nor muslims existed to fit the five fallen, and one is kings.

 

[summerville]

Armies under Islam did not destroy the temple and city.

The Romans followed the greeks in both Daniel 2 Daniel 7.

Islam, nor muslims existed to fit the five fallen, and one is kings.

LOLOL.. Futurists used to claim JFK was the Antichrist.

If you accept Darby and Scofield, Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey as prophets, you're on the right track.