What interrupted the episcopal succession in Jerusalem?

Betho

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The episcopal succession in Jerusalem, as described in Eusebius of Caesarea's "Ecclesiastical History," is interrupted primarily by what historical events? One of the main events that may have interrupted the episcopal succession in Jerusalem was the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 AD, during the First Jewish-Roman War. This event had a significant impact on the Christian community in Jerusalem, leading to the dispersion of Christians and, consequently, the interruption of episcopal succession.

Furthermore, the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire, especially during the reigns of emperors such as Nero and Diocletian, also contributed to the interruption of episcopal succession in several regions, including Jerusalem. Persecution of Christians often resulted in the death of religious leaders and the interruption of the orderly transmission of episcopal succession.
 

Yeshua HaDerekh

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The episcopal succession in Jerusalem, as described in Eusebius of Caesarea's "Ecclesiastical History," is interrupted primarily by what historical events? One of the main events that may have interrupted the episcopal succession in Jerusalem was the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 AD, during the First Jewish-Roman War. This event had a significant impact on the Christian community in Jerusalem, leading to the dispersion of Christians and, consequently, the interruption of episcopal succession.

Furthermore, the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire, especially during the reigns of emperors such as Nero and Diocletian, also contributed to the interruption of episcopal succession in several regions, including Jerusalem. Persecution of Christians often resulted in the death of religious leaders and the interruption of the orderly transmission of episcopal succession.
What do you mean by "episcopal succession"? The Bishop in Yerushalayim was Yaakov until he was killed. The succession were all Jews until 135AD and the Bar Kokba revolt as well as the edict of Hadrian where Greeks were installed there after.
 
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RandyPNW

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The episcopal succession in Jerusalem, as described in Eusebius of Caesarea's "Ecclesiastical History," is interrupted primarily by what historical events? One of the main events that may have interrupted the episcopal succession in Jerusalem was the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 AD, during the First Jewish-Roman War. This event had a significant impact on the Christian community in Jerusalem, leading to the dispersion of Christians and, consequently, the interruption of episcopal succession.

Furthermore, the persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire, especially during the reigns of emperors such as Nero and Diocletian, also contributed to the interruption of episcopal succession in several regions, including Jerusalem. Persecution of Christians often resulted in the death of religious leaders and the interruption of the orderly transmission of episcopal succession.
What "episcopal succession?" Eusebius, being a historian, would have no problem giving a list of successive leaders, but over what church structure?

It wasn't a corporation. It was not, from the start, a large ecclesiastical structure. Christians met wherever they met, though ultimately someone had to provide order and direction. A larger ecclesiastical structure was inevitable, since Christians have a common spirituality and tend to cross-pollinate from one organization to another, from one church gathering to another, from one place to another.

But to have an "episcopal succession" from the start? Hardly. It was just a history of Christianity, as it branched out and met certain problems.

To say that the evolution of Church organization had an established order from the start that must be preserved at all costs goes far beyond what Christ meant by "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against my Church," or "upon this rock I shall establish my Church."

Any organization, Christian or not, can and usually does fail. At such times there needs to be reformation and reorganization, or complete replacement. God did not certify a single ecclesiastical tradition, such as Catholics claim.

Shame on them for their obvious sectarian attitude. The same goes for the Orthodox, or any Protestant or Separatist religious tradition. We all follow Christ, and him alone--not the traditions of Man.
 
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One God and Father of All

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What "episcopal succession?" Eusebius, being a historian, would have no problem giving a list of successive leaders, but over what church structure?

It wasn't a corporation. It was not, from the start, a large ecclesiastical structure. Christians met wherever they met, though ultimately someone had to provide order and direction. A larger ecclesiastical structure was inevitable, since Christians have a common spirituality and tend to cross-pollinate from one organization to another, from one church gathering to another, from one place to another.

But to have an "episcopal succession" from the start? Hardly. It was just a history of Christianity, as it branched out and met certain problems.

To say that the evolution of Church organization had an established order from the start that must be preserved at all costs goes far beyond what Christ meant by "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against my Church," or "upon this rock I shall establish my Church."

Any organization, Christian or not, can and usually does fail. At such times there needs to be reformation and reorganization, or complete replacement. God did not certify a single ecclesiastical tradition, such as Catholics claim.

Shame on them for their obvious sectarian attitude. The same goes for the Orthodox, or any Protestant or Separatist religious tradition. We all follow Christ, and him alone--not the traditions of Man.
The only way to following the teaching of Christ and his apostles is to accept that the scripture only holds the true teaching. If we can’t accept that what do you have. Some claim to have been given the Holy Spirit in such a way that He has revealed to them a “true interpretation“ of the teaching.
The only problem with that is that those who claim the same thing disagree with them on the “true interpretation“.
so, we have groups claiming to have the “true interpretations“ who disagree with each other.
 
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One God and Father of All

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I had a discussion with someone where we disagreed on something that we both agreed was vitally important. The person who disagreed with me was convinced that what he believed could not be wrong because the Holy Spirit was convicting him of the truthfulness of what he believed.

I suppose the scripture, given by the Holy Spirit, was not enough for me to come to a reasonable conclusion.
 
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RandyPNW

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I had a discussion with someone where we disagreed on something that we both agreed was vitally important. The person who disagreed with me was convinced that what he believed could not be wrong because the Holy Spirit was convicting him of the truthfulness of what he believed.

I suppose the scripture, given by the Holy Spirit, was not enough for me to come to a reasonable conclusion.
Well, you know a person who claims "Holy Spirit inspiration" as his "proof" is not really getting this from the Holy Spirit. And that's because the Holy Spirit does not give glory to any man but Jesus .

If God is truly telling us something we are humbled by it, and do not claim special revelation as proof. Rather, we encourage study and objective analysis, not fearing what we may find. "Just take my word for it" doesn't sound very spiritual to me!
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Any organization, Christian or not, can and usually does fail. At such times there needs to be reformation and reorganization, or complete replacement. God did not certify a single ecclesiastical tradition, such as Catholics claim.

Shame on them for their obvious sectarian attitude. The same goes for the Orthodox, or any Protestant or Separatist religious tradition.
Except He said it would NOT fail. It would not need reformed or replaced. The Jerusalem Patriarchate can trace its lineage all the way back to Yaakov for almost 2000 years. Can your Church claim that? Those 7 Churches in Revelation were Eastern Churches that can be still found today.
 
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dzheremi

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Those 7 Churches in Revelation were Eastern Churches that can be still found today.

Are there any Eastern Orthodox churches in the area where Laodicea was (modern-day Denizli province of Turkey)? I couldn't find any via Google just now; it appears that the few that are there are Protestant, though I suppose one could've be RC (I can't really tell the difference architecturally, from the available photos).

Or do you mean "can still be found today" in the sense of there still being Eastern Orthodox churches in Turkey more generally?
 
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RandyPNW

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Except He said it would NOT fail. It would not need reformed or replaced. The Jerusalem Patriarchate can trace its lineage all the way back to Yaakov for almost 2000 years. Can your Church claim that? Those 7 Churches in Revelation were Eastern Churches that can be still found today.
What is it--some kind of contest to see whose church tradition goes back farther? How worldly! Paul spoke against this kind of sectarianism.

It is fascinating to think a tradition can go back so far. On the other hand, it makes one wonder if such a long tradition is being held up by outdated foundations and supports?

Most everything in life ages and deteriorates. Old traditions need to be renewed and in some cases completely replaced.

Haven't you noticed that with appliances, cars, and houses? Sometimes you've remodeled as far as you can go!

I wouldn't boast that I owned the Apostle Paul's tent. It might be a fascinating thing to think you owned a relic. But do we really need to search for pieces of the cross to be happy?

If a Jerusalem church is still in Jerusalem, why should I be surprised? Jerusalem is still there, and there is still likely to be Christians meeting there. Besides, crusades have been fought over rights for churches to be there. What do I care if it is the original tradition or not?
 
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The Liturgist

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If a Jerusalem church is still in Jerusalem, why should I be surprised? Jerusalem is still there, and there is still likely to be Christians meeting there. Besides, crusades have been fought over rights for churches to be there. What do I care if it is the original tradition or not?

Because the original tradition ensures that one is following the Apostolic interpretation of Scripture.

Also, by the way, the Crusades were fought by Western Christians, and were hugely detrimental to the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox. For example, when the first Crusade ran low on food in Syria, they turned to the local Christians as a source of protein and devoured them bodily in a sickening act of cannibalism.

If the excommunication of the Patriarch of Constantinople in 1054 started the Great Schism, the Crusades made it stick.
 
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dzheremi

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What is it--some kind of contest to see whose church tradition goes back farther? How worldly! Paul spoke against this kind of sectarianism.

Paul spoke against sectarianism in the sense of saying "I am of Apollos" or "I am of Paul", not against preserving traditions more generally. He learned at the feet of Gamaliel, remember. What is that but following a kind of pedigree system that was obviously known and practiced by the Jews (Paul and all the others being Jews), just as it continues to be practiced to this day by the more traditionally-minded among Christians?

I could, if I wanted to, trace the ordination of the priest who baptized me, my beloved father Abouna Marcus Mansour of the Church of St. Mark in Scottsdale, Arizona, back to the Apostles themselves. If such a thing does not matter to you, then I would suggest that says a lot more about your approach to the faith than it does about mine or that of my Church or wider communion, which at this level is hardly distinguishable from that of the poster you are originally replying to (since all of the historical communions essentially operate this way; even the Nestorians, who are not really in communion with any wider church and haven't been for centuries, function like this, tracing their own bishops and priests back to the time of Mar Addai/Thaddeus and his disciple Mar Mari, the apostles to the Mesopotamians).

It is fascinating to think a tradition can go back so far. On the other hand, it makes one wonder if such a long tradition is being held up by outdated foundations and supports?

Christ cannot become "outdated". He, being God, exists outside of and beyond time, which is a created thing. The holy faith which He gave to us with His own blood and from His own mouth likewise cannot become outdated. To borrow some phraseology most closely associated with our Eastern Orthodox friends, this is the faith that established the universe.

Most everything in life ages and deteriorates. Old traditions need to be renewed and in some cases completely replaced.

No. The faith is not like everything else in life. I suppose you could say it "ages" in the sense that more time has passed now in 2024 from the founding of the Church than had passed in 150 AD, 431 AD, 972 AD, etc., but the deterioration that you mention does not apply to it on that account or any other account. Because the truth that is enshrined within it is timeless (as Christ is timeless; see above), the passage of time cannot degrade it in any fashion.

What does happen is that occasionally the way in which we articulate it may change according to the circumstances that we find ourselves in as churches. For instance, as regards my own particular Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church (the Orthodox Church of the Egyptians), we know that we did not always include the phrase "the One God" at the end of the Trinitarian formula ("In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit -- the One God"). It is recorded in Coptic histories that this was added after the Muslims came into Egypt in the 640s with the army of 'Amr ibn al 'As. This makes sense, if you think about it, as the preexisting populations of pagans and Jews in Egypt largely had no need to challenge us on theological grounds as to whether or not we were really worshipping one God when we prayed in the name of the Holy Trinity (the pagans because they mostly didn't see any need to stick to one God in the first place, and the Jews because they are not a proselytizing religion to begin with, so it was often enough for them to stick to their own settlements; conflicts happened when Jews and Christians were in close quarters in the cities, but these usually weren't theological in nature). The Muslims, however, did have the need to challenge us, as part of asserting their supposedly God-given supremacy over us, most definitely including that of their religion.

And so we eventually added "the One God" at the end of the Trinitarian formula, and have kept it there ever since. I have not been able to find when exactly this happened, but we know it was probably in place by the turn of the first millennium, as it is present in Coptic as well as Arabic (ou-nouti en-ouoot/al-ilahu il-wahid), and the Copts really began losing their language en masse around the tenth century, as evident by that being the time when the first ever original Arabic-language work emerged from within the Church (a history written by the great bishop Severus of Ashmunein/Hermopolis Magna, who reposed in 987).

Did this addition change the faith at all? No. Not even slightly. If anything, it reinforced it. But I present all this to show how what some may see as stuffy old 'decayed' or 'stagnant' traditions can nonetheless be very resilient and responsive to the changing fortunes and circumstances of the times without having to jettison, reconsider, discard (etc., etc.) anything. You may not see that, as someone who does not hold to them, but that does not change what anyone else is doing or why they're doing it.

Haven't you noticed that with appliances, cars, and houses? Sometimes you've remodeled as far as you can go!

The Christian faith is not an appliance, or a car, or a house, or any other kind of consumer product. Geez Louise.

I wouldn't boast that I owned the Apostle Paul's tent. It might be a fascinating thing to think you owned a relic. But do we really need to search for pieces of the cross to be happy?

Counterpoint: Is living out the Christian faith about being happy? If it is, you might have a point, and maybe all this is missing the point of what we are or should be doing in a fairly big way. If it isn't, however, then it follows that this type of objection cannot be a reason to purposely choose to not engage with the historical reality of one's own faith.

To be clear, we're not talking about interesting artifacts. There are probably more pieces of the "true cross" than there are actual pieces of it, if you get my drift, so at that level, you are absolutely right that it is not important to be able to say that you own a piece of St. Paul's tent, or the sandal belonging to St. Mark that St. Anianos repaired, or whatever other thing. At the level of what these things mean to the people who do interact with them (whether the supposed physical object, or the history absent having the article in question in your possession), however, they cannot be so easily dismissed, as they speak to the historical reality of our faith: that the true cross did exist and was sought after and found (even if it turns out that the particular piece supposedly found at location X today is in fact too late to be true to the period); that St. Mary does perform miracles for the believers at Um Al Zenar Church in Homs, Syria (a Syriac Orthodox Church founded in the first century that supposedly contains a piece of her belt), and so on and so forth.

This is the same with any symbology that is favored or disfavored in any particular church or tradition. Nothing happens or doesn't happen for no reason, as of course we believe in God, not in proffered miracles which may be accepted or rejected according to whatever someone would be convinced by or would rather accept. This is why I always wonder about people who can dismiss tradition itself as though it is nothing but what someone somewhere cooked up at some point for reasons unrelated to what we all testify actually happened (i.e., the historical reality of the persons, places, and things that are central to the faith as it exists in the world, not in the analytical and rational minds of modern people who think we know everything by virtue of being around now instead of 800 or 2,000 or however many years ago, when our ancestors were around and supposedly knew nothing compared to us and our mighty ability to Google and scoff).

What do I care if it is the original tradition or not?

It is evident that indeed you don't. Evident and quite sad. Perhaps tradition would matter to you if your faith were "backwards compatible", to use a fancy egghead computer term befitting people who place themselves above the Church, as the lion's share of those who partake in post-Reformation traditions of Christianity seem to do, with great pride at returning to something (what that is, only God can know) by stripping away the centuries of accumulated traditions found in Roman Catholicism (or, for those who came out of even later splits, whatever particular tradition they more directly descend from).
 
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RandyPNW

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Paul spoke against sectarianism in the sense of saying "I am of Apollos" or "I am of Paul", not against preserving traditions more generally. He learned at the feet of Gamaliel, remember. What is that but following a kind of pedigree system that was obviously known and practiced by the Jews (Paul and all the others being Jews), just as it continues to be practiced to this day by the more traditionally-minded among Christians?
Surely Paul learned from Gamaliel before he converted to Christianity? What he did before converting cannot be used to sanction the things he railed against! Are you going to recommend murder because Paul stood by while Stephen was stoned?
I could, if I wanted to, trace the ordination of the priest who baptized me, my beloved father Abouna Marcus Mansour of the Church of St. Mark in Scottsdale, Arizona, back to the Apostles themselves.
No, tradition can be for Christians no better than tradition was for the Jews in the time they used tradition to discount Jesus as the Messiah.
Christ cannot become "outdated".
Clearly, you're not getting it. Perfunctory service, tradition, and religious ceremony is no better than legalism if their object is sectarianism, or "Who is the boss over all other Christians."
No. The faith is not like everything else in life. I suppose you could say it "ages" in the sense that more time has passed now in 2024 from the founding of the Church than had passed in 150 AD, 431 AD, 972 AD, etc., but the deterioration that you mention does not apply to it on that account or any other account. Because the truth that is enshrined within it is timeless (as Christ is timeless; see above), the passage of time cannot degrade it in any fashion.
Jesus said leaven leavens over time. A society rises and falls--a well-understood reality.
What does happen is that occasionally the way in which we articulate it may change according to the circumstances that we find ourselves in as churches. For instance, as regards my own particular Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church (the Orthodox Church of the Egyptians), we know that we did not always include the phrase "the One God" at the end of the Trinitarian formula ("In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit -- the One God").
Yes, it sounds like something the Muslims would be concerned about.
Did this addition change the faith at all? No. Not even slightly. If anything, it reinforced it.
I find facts of history interesting but as you say immaterial to the point that age often means deterioration.
The Christian faith is not an appliance, or a car, or a house, or any other kind of consumer product. Geez Louise.
I would've hoped you see the obvious comparison. People and churches age, just like everything in the world. Moral attention also suffers with time. It's that constant beating down upon men by the powers of their own sin. The more afflictions, the more relent and capitulate.
Counterpoint: Is living out the Christian faith about being happy?
My point was about searching for the holy grail, and not about being happy. Try telling a young convert who spent a meaningless life in sin for 50 years how important it is to have centuries of tradition behind you. The only thing that matters to him or her is today, or now.
To be clear, we're not talking about interesting artifacts...they speak to the historical reality of our faith.
I don't think so. As an adolescent seeking a more living faith I bought a book on finding Noah's ark. What a waste of time! Faith does not require uncovering ancient history that can be at any rate questioned.
... of course we believe in God, not in proffered miracles which may be accepted or rejected according to whatever someone would be convinced by or would rather accept.
Yes, that's the point. Faith must be directed at God, and history utilized to fill in the blanks to understand how we are to properly fit in. Peripheral data, though interesting, can be a distraction. God is not so hard to find.
It is evident that indeed you don't. Evident and quite sad. Perhaps tradition would matter to you if your faith were "backwards compatible", to use a fancy egghead computer term befitting people who place themselves above the Church, as the lion's share of those who partake in post-Reformation traditions of Christianity seem to do, with great pride at returning to something (what that is, only God can know) by stripping away the centuries of accumulated traditions found in Roman Catholicism (or, for those who came out of even later splits, whatever particular tradition they more directly descend from).
You miss the point. When Luther challenged Catholic tradition, as was his job as a theologian to examine what is biblical, his life was threatened by the Catholic authorities. That is how important tradition can become to some people.

I think history is fascinating, and even tradition can be beautiful--but not when it is a fight over authority, which is what sectarianism is. Thanks for the interesting exchange...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Surely Paul learned from Gamaliel before he converted to Christianity? What he did before converting cannot be used to sanction the things he railed against!
What does a Jew "convert" to? He believes in his own Moshiakh.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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What is it--some kind of contest to see whose church tradition goes back farther? How worldly! Paul spoke against this kind of sectarianism.

It is fascinating to think a tradition can go back so far. On the other hand, it makes one wonder if such a long tradition is being held up by outdated foundations and supports?

Most everything in life ages and deteriorates. Old traditions need to be renewed and in some cases completely replaced.

Haven't you noticed that with appliances, cars, and houses? Sometimes you've remodeled as far as you can go!
Contest? Outdated? Just stating historical facts. The Church is not a car or an appliance. Yeshua said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.
 
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Contest? Outdated? Just stating historical facts. The Church is not a car or an appliance. Yeshua said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.
Yes, those who take refuge in Christ will not stay dead. But people do age. And traditions age, as well, if they don't regularly renew. If your car doesn't get its regular checkup it's bound to face aging problems. If a church tradition doesn't regularly check weak spots, they are likely to lead to worse problems.
 
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dzheremi

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Yes, those who take refuge in Christ will not stay dead. But people do age. And traditions age, as well, if they don't regularly renew. If your car doesn't get its regular checkup it's bound to face aging problems. If a church tradition doesn't regularly check weak spots, they are likely to lead to worse problems.

We've been through how your analogies to cars and appliances are inappropriate, but I'm curious what "weak spots" you have in mind. What is a "weak spot" in a particular tradition that you feel needs to be "renewed" so as to not lead to "worse problems" (worse problems than...)?
 
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The Liturgist

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What does a Jew "convert" to? He believes in his own Moshiakh.

Well I think there would be a conversion later on in the case of the more highly divergent forms of Judaism that exist today, such as Chasidic Judaism, or vanillia orthodox Rabinnical Judaism, or Reform Judaism, with their Rabinnical system, the Talmud (or rather technically two Talmuds, but the one that is most important is the Babylonian Talmud), and since the Talmuds and the Mishnah are not accessible to laity, you have the Torah as interpreted by the Rabbis based on the Mishnaic recension of the oral traditions of the Pharisees distilled into the Sulchan Aruch, which addresses the needs of the Sephardic community and has an Ashkenazi gloss which is almost invariably prrinted with it, making it a fascinating and enjoyablle book, and then of course uniting all of these groups even Reform, although I am not sure about Reconstructionist Judaism, as I don’t quite understand their belief system, you have a large number of Jews who are into the mystical system of Kaballah, which imparts esoteric significance even to seemingly banal portions of the Talmud that address the practicalities that any legal system must address.

And then Karaite Judaism, excluding the Khazars of Ukraine*, also seem to have moved away from Christianity to quite an extent; some might argue they invented Sola Scriptura, although really, their approach to reading the Hebrew Bible is more like Prima Scriptura, in that it depends heavily on a system of methodical reasoning known as the Kalaam (similiar systems have also been used by Islamic philosophers). And there is an accepted prevalent interpretation of the Hebrew Bible by the Karaites, which is obviously a tradition, and in this traditional Karaite orthodoxy, on the basis of their analysis of the text using the Kalaam, among other unusual conclusions, they have come to believe that the devil does not exist, and that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was merely a very cunning and intelligent snake. I find this bizarre.

This group unfortunately suffers some degree of discrimination from the Chief Rabbinate of Israel (yes, I understand that Karaite standards of Kashrut are such that a Kosher butchers operated by Karaites would perhaps not be Kosher for Rabinnical purposes, but denying them the phrase Kosher altogether seems excessive, it seems it would be more reasonable to let them identify as “Karaite Kosher”, but the secular government does treat Karaites and the Beta Israel (Jews from Ethiopia and their descendants, whose synagogues perform animal sacrifices and follow a liturgy and use vestments that closely resemble the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church, albeit with the animal sacrifices taking the place of the Eucharist; the Beta Israel are the descendants of what at one time was the predominant religion in Ethiopia and Eritrea, as I’m sure my friends @Yeshua HaDerekh and @dzheremi are aware, but sadly most Christians are unaware of the Ethiopian church, despite the enormous influence it has had, for example, the little-known but very important influence its mere existence had on Martin Luther when he was contemplating what to do in response to doctrinal errors in the Roman church; also, interestingly, the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church has probably the highest ratio of Christians descended from Jews.

The other churches with large numbers of members of Jewish descent include the Syriac Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox churches (many members have recognizably Jewish components in their names, such as the current Syriac Orthodox Archbishop of the Western United States, Mor Clemis Eugene Kaplan, or the late Syriac Orthodox Patriarch Ignatius Zakka Iwas I, memory eternal (or anyone named Zakka, which is a Syriac form of the name rendered in Koine Greek as Zacchaeus), and the Aramaic speaking community in Maaloula in Syria, whose nuns were kept hostage by Al Nusra, the local Al Qaeda affiliate, and whose churches were desecrated; fortunately the community survived, likewise the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem has many members in Israel and the Palestinian territories who speak Arabic, Aramaic and/or Hebrew, who like most Arabic speaking Christians in the Holy Land are at least partially descended from Jewish Christians. Then you have the Assyrian Church of the East, which has a large and obvious Hebrew influence, indeed, their main liturgy, which is also believed to be one of the three oldest in continual use, the Divine Liturgy of The Holy Apostles Addai and Mari, is structured in the manner of a Jewish table blessing, as noted by Dom Gregory Dix and others. And at one time, the Church of the East extended throughout Asia, to the island of Socotra off the south coast of Yemen, and to Mongolia, China and Tibet, with a major hub in the lost city of Merv, near the modern day city of Mary in Turkmenistan (which is home to a Russian Orthodox Church to this day, which pleases me; I would love to go there, and visit the ruins of Merv with the local Russian Orthodox community, but alas getting an invitation and a visa to Turkmenistan is notoriously difficult).

However, the Muslim warlord Tamerlane and his sons launched a genocide which killed off the Church of the East everywhere except its two major historic strongholds, in modern day Iraq, Iran and eastern Syria (an area which partially overlaps the eastern province of the Syriac Orthodox Church), and in India, and among both populations there are substantial Jewish converts, for the Church of the East was historically always headquarted in Seleucia-Cstesiphon, and then when that city became uninhabitable due to a shifting of the Tigris, moved into its successor, Baghdad (which is much closer to ancient Bablyon). It was in Seleucia-Cstesiphon that the great Jewish sages Rav Ashi and Ravina II completed the monumental Bablyonian Talmud, and they spoke a dialect of Aramaic which is not greatly different from the vernacular East Syriac spoken by the Assyrians of the time, including the Catholicos-Patriarch, or presiding bishop, and the other bishops and priests and monks who worked in the capital. The Eastern province of the Syriac Orthodox Church has always been run by a bishop originally titled the Catholicos, but after the schism between that church and the Church of the East, his title was changed to the Maphruno (commonly Anglicized as the Maphrian), and one of the most beloved Maphrians was Mar Gregorios bar Hebraeus, a 12th century Jew who embraced Syriac Orthodox Christianity and rose to become the Maphrian, and who also was much loved by the Assyrians of the Church of the East, so much so that when he died in an Assyrian town in the Nineveh Plains while returning from the city of Tikrit, which has many Syriac Orthodox Christians, to his monastery, the Monastery of St. Matthew, which still overlooks the city of Mosul, having miraculously survived the occupation of that city by ISIS, the Catholicos-Patriarch of the Church of the East arranged his funeral, and over four thousand Assyrians attended.

Thus, because of these differences, and also those involving the Beta Israel, and for that matter we might as well include the Samaritans, who more likely than not are descended from the tribes of Ephrem, Manessah and, based on genetic analysis, the Levites and Kohanim, it does seem that given how Samaritanism had diverged from Judaism, and given how Judaism has diverged, in all three of its major forms (Rabinnical, Karaite and Ethiopian), that in the modern day, when a Jew becomes an Orthodox Christian, they are converting. Now it should be clear from what I have written that I love Jews, I find Judaica fascinating, I see the Jewish and Samaritan liturgical traditions in particular as being extremely valuable, because it is clear that our Christian liturgy was heavily influenced by them, for example, the three main daily prayers of the Jews became the basis for our three main prayers of Matins, Vespers and Compline, although we supplemented these in most churches with additional prayers, and likewise the animal sacrifices of the Hebrew religion, which at present are engaged in only by the few remaining Beta Israel of Ethiopia and their large diaspora in Israel, prefigured typologically the one all sufficient and voluntary sacrifice of Christ our True God on the Cross, through which humanity was remade in the image of God, before He rested on the seventh day, just as He had in the beginning, and then rose on the eighth day, just as we will, on the mystical Eighth Day of Creation, be raised incorruptible, to face the dread judgement seat of Christ, and those of us spared by the Incarnate Logos will then live with God, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in the World to Come, whereas those who despise God will be spared the torture of being in his immediate presence by being sent to the outer darkness, where they will punish themselves through infinite regret over the joys they chose, and continue to choose, to actively reject, for as CS Lewis observed, the gates of Hell are locked on the inside.

The reason why this is a conversion for Jews is because Jews do not worship the Trinity, but developed, in opposition to Christianity and to the ancient Hebrew religion, which clearly had proto-Trinitarian concepts such as the idea of the Logos and the Holy Spirit, even if these were not at all well understood, particularly by the time of Christ, as well as proto-Eucharistic aspects to its liturgy, in the form of the drink offerings and shewbread in the Temple, among other things, a strongly Unitarian, monarchistic approach to God. The Rabinnical Jews then went beyond that, with Kaballah, and embraced a mystical system in which God divides into ten Sephirots before recombining, and each of these has distinctive attributes, and there is a complex mystical, emanationist system surrounding them, and some Jews believe that Kaballah has been used for such interesting purposes as animating a giant clay man, the Gollem, to defend the Jews of Prague from a pogrom.

Now this all being said, I absolutely detest anti-Semitism and I bitterly regret the way Christians have treated Jews over the preceding centuries, with some exceptions. Indeed, even on those occasions where we have been mistreated by Jews, we have no business persecuting them, for Christ commanded us to bless those who persecute us. Thus, while I do support efforts to convert the Jews to Christianity, including low-key efforts conducted by the Orthodox (who will receive Jewish converts and work on an approach that is based on attracting Jews and other potential converts through the beauty of our liturgy, and this approach works, and also keeps us safe, particularly in the Middle East where direct proselytism of Muslims, for example, is impossible, so attracting Muslims in the same way is the only way they can be evangelized without endangering the Christian communities, who are always, it seems, one accidental offense or intentional act of malice on the part of a zealous Mufti away from being exterminated; the Jews on the other hand do not react violently to proselytism, and also share the same essential morality of Christians thanks to the Torah and the Noachide Laws (which were reflected in the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15) so I also support an Anglican mission in the Holy Land which does engage in active proselytism.

*The Khazars from what I have read largely renounced Judaism and embraced a reconstructed version of their ancient religion, while retaining some ecclesiological frameworks from Judaism (similiar to how Tibetan Buddhism adopted the hierarchical structure of the Church of the East and retained it even after all of the Christians in Tibet were killed by the genocide initiated by Tamerlane, possibly with Buddhist indifference or active assistance, as there have been many documented instances of Buddhist persecutions of Christians, particularly of Catholic missionaries in Japan and China),
 
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The Liturgist

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Yes, those who take refuge in Christ will not stay dead. But people do age. And traditions age, as well, if they don't regularly renew. If your car doesn't get its regular checkup it's bound to face aging problems. If a church tradition doesn't regularly check weak spots, they are likely to lead to worse problems.

The only “weak spots” that occur in the practice of church are when churches deviate from Holy Tradition, by engaging in innovations of a liturgical or doctrinal character.

For example, the two main problems in the Roman Catholic Church at present are Traditiones Custodes, which suppresses the beautiful traditional Latin mass, which unlike its replacement, is an ornate and exquisitely beautiful liturgy comparable to those of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the liturgical Protestants such as the Evangelical Catholic Lutherans and the High Church Anglicans; this encyclical being introduced by Pope Francis in 2021 and superceding previous bulls, encyclicals, pastoral instructions and so on of both Pope St. John Paul II and Blessed Pope Benedict xVI, memory eternal.

The more serious problem is the result of a document issued by the “Dicastery of the Doctrine of Faith”, the latest rebranding of the Holy Office, which when it was known as the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith under the leadership of Cardinal Ratzinger, who would become Blessed Pope Benedict XVI, did superb work in support of the traditionalist papacy of St. John Paul II, in his arguments in defense of sexual morality and in opposition to abortion, and this excellent work was continued by Gerhard Cardinal Muller, who was fired by Pope Francis and replaced by a liberal cardinal with unusual ideas, who has at Pope Francis’s instruction issued a new document, Fiducia Supplicans, that directly contradicts one issued two years ago, which allows priests to bless, in a non-liturgical setting, same sex couples as well as other couples in “irregular” (that is to say, sexually immoral) situations.

Now some members will be quick to argue that the blessings are not of the relationships but of the couples, however, that is itself the problem, because the blessings are of the couples, together, as a couple, and not as individual members of the church, and what is more the blessings are not made in an effort to help the persons separate from those who they are in an immoral sodomitic or adulterous or other form of perverse relationship with.

Both of these issues constitute an attack on the Holy Tradition of the ancient Church, including the received tradition of the Roman Catholic Church, which itself suffers primarily to the extent that it innovated and thus departed from the ancient tradition of the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches, through the introduction of novel doctrines like Papal Supremacy, Scholastic Theology (in particular the Satisfaction-based soteriology of Anselm of Canterbury, later refined by St. Thomas Aquinas, which takes the least profitable writings of St. Augustine of Hippo, a pious church father who was not perfect, as indeed no one is, but some of his works are much more useful than others, and expands and distorts them, creating a new approach to theology, Scholasticism, which indeed the Roman church goes so far as to differentiate from Patristic theology, with the last Church Father according to Rome being St. John Damascene (who in the Orthodox Church we refer to as St. John of Damascus).

Scholastic theology in turn led to other innovations, such as Purgatory, Indulgences, and Papal Infallibility, and the veneration of the Sacred Heart and then of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and for that matter the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which is an artifact of the way St. Augustine dealt with original sin in opposition to the heretic Pelagius, by suggesting that it spreads like a venereal disease. In contrast, another Latin father, and a contemporary of St. Augustine, St. John Cassian, proposed that original sin is not transmitted through coitus but rather is inherited, and this allows for the Blessed Virgn Mary to have been, in Orthodox theology, sinless, while being conceived in ordinary process of sexual reproduction. And also, we don’t establish an end date for the Patristic era; there are Orthodox Church Fathers from the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries, for example, the Kollyvades Brothers, St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite, St. Macarius of Corinth, St. Seraphim of Sarov, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, St. John of Kronstadt, St. Alexis Toth, St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco, Elder Joseph the Hesychast, and several others.

Thus, the only weak spots on Holy Tradition are those places where people fail to maintain it, but instead introduce novelties and innovations, often under the pretext of ill-advised “reform”, or to keep the church “relevant” to a “changing world.” The severe problems with the Roman Catholic and Episcopalian liturgical reforms in the 1970s, both of which caused schisms which still persist, are a case in point.
 
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Ain't Zwinglian

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Now some members will be quick to argue that the blessings are not of the relationships but of the couples, however, that is itself the problem, because the blessings are of the couples, together, as a couple, and not as individual members of the church, and what is more the blessings are not made in an effort to help the persons separate from those who they are in an immoral sodomitic or adulterous or other form of perverse relationship with.
Agreed.
 
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