GodLovesCats
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It depends on the drug. Is your definition of "moderation" less often me taking pills twice a day?
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Moderation is that intake that is beneficial and healthy. It probably differs for each individual, but generally I suppose that small amounts of something (legal) that do not have any immediate or ongoing ill effect for ourselves or others and that do not cause us alienation in our relationship with the Father (perhaps because of our faith or conscience), could be considered as moderate.It depends on the drug. Is your definition of "moderation" less often me taking pills twice a day?
It depends on the drug. Is your definition of "moderation" less often me taking pills twice a day?
Drugs tend to be addictive -- medicine not so much. Drugs are not for healing... medicine is.
Drugs tend to be addictive -- medicine not so much. Drugs are not for healing... medicine is.
From the article: The Case for Alcohol Based on Romans 14
Thoughts? (Mainly for those that have reservations about alcohol)
The concept of grape juice didn't exist until the Welch's figured out how to remove yeast such that the juice didn't immediately ferment. That was in the 19th century. The anti-alcohol zealots twist themselves in knots trying to prove wine equals grape juice in scripture.If a church serves wine for communion, obviously the whole congregation should be OK with it. Christians who are bothered by it need to read the Bible more because grape juice turned into wine in Biblical times.
The Eucharist is celebrated in a number of churches, not just the Catholic church. For instance, I celebrate it in my church, and although I believe in the Real Presence, I don't believe in transubstantiation in the same way as the Catholics do. We also use wine, not grape juice.I still do not understand what the Eucharist is because it seems to only be a Catholic tradition, based on a lot of posts on CF. Communion is the only word that means "The Lord's Supper sacrament" to Protestants such as Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, Pentecostals, and Reformists.
I'm very happy to explain why I believe this in another thread topic, along with history of the church and supporting scripturesI do not believe in the Real Presence. Jesus is in heaven. The Holy Spirit is there, just like he always is.
The Eucharist is celebrated in a number of churches, not just the Catholic church. For instance, I celebrate it in my church, and although I believe in the Real Presence, I don't believe in transubstantiation in the same way as the Catholics do. We also use wine, not grape juice.
Generally speaking, Church Canon Law stipulates that eucharistic wine should be "the fermented juice of the grape, good and wholesome". I have not been to any services where non-alcoholic wine has been used.Does your church offer grape juice for those that don’t want to consume alcohol (curious)?
In the article, there is an interesting point > ones are saying "wine" always means grape juice, in the Bible, for example when Jesus turned water into "wine".Thoughts?
In the article, there is an interesting point > ones are saying "wine" always means grape juice, in the Bible, for example when Jesus turned water into "wine".
But there is where Paul deals with an issue of if we should drink "wine" if it can cause someone else to stumble. Well, if the "wine" were only grape juice, how could someone stumble about me drinking grape juice, which isn't even alcoholic?
Well > I can think of how it could be a problem > let's say a person becomes a Christian and dries out by means of Alcoholics Anonymous and is being told in AA that he should never take a drink because then he could tumble into a major drunken failure. Also, in Christian counseling and pastoring, dried-out alcoholics can be cautioned that they could go all the way drunk after taking just that "first drink".
But he sees a you a Christian drinking grape juice and thinks it is wine, and feels now he is a Christian, too, so he should be strong enough not to get drunk if he has a sip of wine. But he does not know you were drinking grape juice. May be, ones would argue, this could be an example Paul could mean of not drinking "wine", when he really means grape juice.
This, by the way, is the first time I even thought of this. I see the point . . . but . . .
I would pray about what I do with other people. Get to know how people really are, and be able to know when my example and actions could miscommunicate.
But I think any of us needs to become strong enough so what others do does not control us. And, with anything >
"I will not be brought under the power of any," our Apostle Paul says.
I see this means if any thing can get me under its power, this is a sin problem. And this can mean power to get me intoxicated, get me into immorality, or get me arguing, or complaining . . . or tying up my attention in any way so I am away from submitting to God in His peace.
"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)
There are things which can get a person's attention, then drag them into stress and burn-out of workaholism. But Jesus will give us "rest for your souls," He says in Matthew 11:28-30. So, we need to stay sober in our minds and emotions, so nothing can have power to get us into workaholic and other stress and trouble.
And God's love keeps us so we do not give in the the torment of fear > 1 John 4:18. I used to be drunk with worry and torment. Jesus has changed me so I can stay sober, emotionally, and not trust the pathological lying of worry.
So, even our attention needs to be under control, with discernment. And I would say we trust God to have us obeying how He guides our attention > seek to share with God in everything, all the time
And it then will be quite interesting to notice what will come to mind to demand our attention elsewhere. Being sober includes our attention being in God's control.
What I meant is if it's the Eucharist is so important to you and the church you're attending only uses alcoholic wine you probably should find a different fellowship. I know of churches that use grape juice instead of wine.
I see you live in Australia. In the USA a certain amount of alcohol in the blood (which varies by the state) is considered being "legally drunk." If someone is legally drunk, there are some major restrictions on the activities he/she is allowed to do.